What does the term "flesh" mean?

[farouk]

Part of the difficulty is that some modern translations have chosed to render SARX (King James: flesh) as 'sinful nature'. The problem with this is that the Lord Jesus' flesh is mentioned, but it's not possible to ascribe a sinful nature to Him, so it can't be rendered thus in such instances. Also, Romans 8 is hard to translate if SARX is rendered 'sinful nature'. Blessings.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Oh but Jesus was born with the nature of man, we all agree that He was 100% man and 100% God. Because He was born with the nature of man, He could be tempted. God cannot be tempted, so scripture says. This is the very reason that He could be a sacrifice for our sin. Because He overcame the nature of man by the nature of God. He walked in the Spirit not in the flesh.
The problem is this idea that when man is born he is sinful because of Adam's sin. No he is born with the nature of Adam. With the capability to sin and he will for sure. But Jesus came with that nature of Adam and never sinned.
This is the lesson of walking in the Spirit of God and not the 'flesh' the nature of man.
We grow from faith to faith and glory to glory, as we are transformed into the image of the Son.

[MENTION=93058]Deborah13[/MENTION]:

I think it's good to remember that there was nothing in the Lord Jesus to respond to sin, to cause Him to have a tendency to sin. He said in John 14.30: 'The prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me'.

He was the perfect, sinless sacrifice; as the last Adam he did not inherit a sinful nature.

Jesus was tempted. God cannot be tempted. Jesus overcame temptation. He did this by the Spirit of God which He had in all it's fullness. Jesus, overcame sin by the Spirit of God, the very nature of God, that He was born with. He was 100% man and 100% God. "God come in the flesh."
Remember in the garden of Gethsemane, Jesus asked His Father, "if there is any other way, take this cup from me,...but Your will Father, not Mine." (para)
Jesus, as a man, was under so much pressure knowing what was going to happen to Him that He sweat drops of blood. He did what no other man could do. His own words testify that it was not His will, as a man, to died in such a horrible manner. But He overcame, by the Spirit (the nature of God) to follow through with the words that He professed "Your will Father not Mine".
I don't think I could appreciate what He did, if I didn't believe He TRULY OVERCAME sin, every sin, all sin known to man. If He didn't then we can't either. It's that plain and simple.

@eborah13: The difference with us being that, while in our flesh there are sinful tendencies, in His flesh there were none. Yes, indeed, born again Christians cleansed by His blood can be strengthened and empowered day by day to resist sin, but this is not what happens with an unbeliever who does not yet know Him.

 

[Deborah13]

Oh but Jesus was born with the nature of man, we all agree that He was 100% man and 100% God. Because He was born with the nature of man, He could be tempted.

Deb, no where does the scriptures suggest that Christ had the sinful flesh that we do, for He was not born of the seed of man, in which sin is passed unto all flesh. Yes he came as a man, in the flesh, but it had no sin. This is clear!

And just where did I say that Jesus had sin??? You miss quote me, George.

Well Im unsure of your point if that is not what you was suggesting? And the conversation would lead that you may be trying to suggest that His Flesh and ours is the same? If that was not your intention, please forgive my assumption?

Was Jesus 100% man and 100% God??

 

[George Muller]

And just where did I say that Jesus had sin??? You miss quote me, George.

Well Im unsure of your point if that is not what you was suggesting? And the conversation would lead that you may be trying to suggest that His Flesh and ours is the same? If that was not your intention, please forgive my assumption?

Was Jesus 100% man and 100% God??

The Lords position as God was not based upon his flesh, as Paul said we know not even the Lord after the flesh any longer, but we know Him as Crucified and risen. I think we could say that the Body He had was a sinless body, formed to be a sacrifice for our sins. His soul and spirit was in this body and His position of being God, was not in the flesh. So I think I can agree but this subject and understanding of how He fulfilled all these positions are not as simple as your statement would attempt to make it.

 

[farouk]

A relevant verse: 1 Timothy 3.16: 'Without controversy, great is the mystery of godliness. God was manifest in the flesh.'

And another: 'And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us; and we beheld His glory, the glory as the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth'.

 

[George Muller]

Part of the difficulty is that some modern translations have chosed to render SARX (King James: flesh) as 'sinful nature'. The problem with this is that the Lord Jesus' flesh is mentioned, but it's not possible to ascribe a sinful nature to Him, so it can't be rendered thus in such instances. Also, Romans 8 is hard to translate if SARX is rendered 'sinful nature'. Blessings.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Oh but Jesus was born with the nature of man, we all agree that He was 100% man and 100% God. Because He was born with the nature of man, He could be tempted. God cannot be tempted, so scripture says. This is the very reason that He could be a sacrifice for our sin. Because He overcame the nature of man by the nature of God. He walked in the Spirit not in the flesh.
The problem is this idea that when man is born he is sinful because of Adam's sin. No he is born with the nature of Adam. With the capability to sin and he will for sure. But Jesus came with that nature of Adam and never sinned.
This is the lesson of walking in the Spirit of God and not the 'flesh' the nature of man.
We grow from faith to faith and glory to glory, as we are transformed into the image of the Son.

@Deborah13 :

I think it's good to remember that there was nothing in the Lord Jesus to respond to sin, to cause Him to have a tendency to sin. He said in John 14.30: 'The prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me'.

He was the perfect, sinless sacrifice; as the last Adam he did not inherit a sinful nature.

Jesus was tempted. God cannot be tempted. Jesus overcame temptation. He did this by the Spirit of God which He had in all it's fullness. Jesus, overcame sin by the Spirit of God, the very nature of God, that He was born with. He was 100% man and 100% God. "God come in the flesh."
Remember in the garden of Gethsemane, Jesus asked His Father, "if there is any other way, take this cup from me,...but Your will Father, not Mine." (para)
Jesus, as a man, was under so much pressure knowing what was going to happen to Him that He sweat drops of blood. He did what no other man could do. His own words testify that it was not His will, as a man, to died in such a horrible manner. But He overcame, by the Spirit (the nature of God) to follow through with the words that He professed "Your will Father not Mine".
I don't think I could appreciate what He did, if I didn't believe He TRULY OVERCAME sin, every sin, all sin known to man. If He didn't then we can't either. It's that plain and simple.

Yes the Lord was tempted, and tried in His Faith, not according to sin in the flesh. The devil had certain right to test Him, in certain ways, this is clear, but He had no sin in the flesh, which is the thing that satan has over us. This proves how important this issue is? For as long as we "as Christians" see ourselves in the flesh, we are subject to satan. Until we accept the truth that we should have no confidence in our flesh, and be confident only of who we are in the Spirit, THEN will we overcome the "accuser". Satan could make no charge of sin against the Lord, even though he used his ministers (Pharisees) "children of the devil" ACCCUSER to try.

 

[Deborah13]

And just where did I say that Jesus had sin??? You miss quote me, George.

Well Im unsure of your point if that is not what you was suggesting? And the conversation would lead that you may be trying to suggest that His Flesh and ours is the same? If that was not your intention, please forgive my assumption?

Was Jesus 100% man and 100% God??

The Lords position as God was not based upon his flesh, as Paul said we know not even the Lord after the flesh any longer, but we know Him as Crucified and risen. I think we could say that the Body He had was a sinless body, formed to be a sacrifice for our sins. His soul and spirit was in this body and His position of being God, was not in the flesh. So I think I can agree but this subject and understanding of how He fulfilled all these positions are not as simple as your statement would attempt to make it.

Why are you not answering a simple question? Was Jesus 100% man AND 100% God? I think that is a yes or no answer first. Then an explanation to this answer.

 

[farouk]

The Lord Jesus WAS tempted, but His flesh had no corrupt, sinful tendencies. It was His sinlessness that qualified Him uniquely as the sinless sacrifice for sinners at the Cross.

 

[George Muller]

A relevant verse: 1 Timothy 3.16: 'Without controversy, great is the mystery of godliness. God was manifest in the flesh.'

And another: 'And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us; and we beheld His glory, the glory as the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth'.

Yes Brother, it was His Body judged for our sin. "He became sin that we would be made the righteousness of God In Him. This is a great mystery, but all honest and sincere believers will be allowed to die with Him, become a fool at His Cross, become weak at His Cross. His death was our death, and the judgment has passed for those who accept His Cross.

This is the ONLY ANSWER TO THE FLESH, to crucify it upon His Cross.

 

[George Muller]

Was Jesus 100% man and 100% God??

The Lords position as God was not based upon his flesh, as Paul said we know not even the Lord after the flesh any longer, but we know Him as Crucified and risen. I think we could say that the Body He had was a sinless body, formed to be a sacrifice for our sins. His soul and spirit was in this body and His position of being God, was not in the flesh. So I think I can agree but this subject and understanding of how He fulfilled all these positions are not as simple as your statement would attempt to make it.

Why are you not answering a simple question? Was Jesus 100% man AND 100% God? I think that is a yes or no answer first. Then an explanation to this answer.

Simple question? Come on! this understanding has been debated for thousands of years by those who have given their whole lifes to the Word of God. If you are so wise then explain what biblical scholars have tried in vain to explain for all these years. I have given you an honest biblical answer according to the understanding that God has given to me. I have tried to act in humility and honesty toward you, I suggest you do the same before I embarrass you in your pride.

 

[farouk]

I think it can fairly be said that the Lord's perfect humanity and perfect deity is not threatened at all, when we say that His flesh had no sinful tendencies.

Blessings.

 

[Deborah13]

but He had no sin in the flesh

I never said He had sin in the flesh. YIKE
He overcame the flesh without EVER, EVER sinning.

Adam (man) when tempted by satan, he failed. Jesus as the second Adam (man) when tempted by satan, had VICTORY. He overcame satan by the Word of God and the nature of God in Him.

 

[George Muller]

but He had no sin in the flesh

I never said He had sin in the flesh. YIKE
He overcame the flesh without EVER, EVER sinning.

Adam (man) when tempted by satan, he failed. Jesus as the second Adam (man) when tempted by satan, had VICTORY. He overcame satan by the Word of God and the nature of God in Him.

His flesh was sinless, it not the same flesh as fallen man has received from Adam. Why do you think God had to bypass the seed of man and impregnate Mary, by the Holy Spirit? That proves the point! He did not have the flesh of Adams fall.

 

[Deborah13]

I think it can fairly be said that the Lord's perfect humanity and perfect deity is not threatened at all, when we say that His flesh had no sinful tendencies.

Blessings.

I agree, the perfect man and perfect God. He NEVER walked in the flesh, He walked in the Spirit.

 

[farouk]

I think it can fairly be said that the Lord's perfect humanity and perfect deity is not threatened at all, when we say that His flesh had no sinful tendencies.

Blessings.

I agree, the perfect man and perfect God. He NEVER walked in the flesh, He walked in the Spirit.

Blessings.

 

[Deborah13]

but He had no sin in the flesh

I never said He had sin in the flesh. YIKE
He overcame the flesh without EVER, EVER sinning.

Adam (man) when tempted by satan, he failed. Jesus as the second Adam (man) when tempted by satan, had VICTORY. He overcame satan by the Word of God and the nature of God in Him.

His flesh was sinless, it not the same flesh as fallen man has received from Adam. Why do you think God had to bypass the seed of man and impregnate Mary, by the Holy Spirit? That proves the point! He did not have the flesh of Adams fall.

Then are you saying that Jesus was NOT REALLY TEMPTED by satan?

 

[George Muller]

but He had no sin in the flesh

I never said He had sin in the flesh. YIKE
He overcame the flesh without EVER, EVER sinning.

Adam (man) when tempted by satan, he failed. Jesus as the second Adam (man) when tempted by satan, had VICTORY. He overcame satan by the Word of God and the nature of God in Him.

His flesh was sinless, it not the same flesh as fallen man has received from Adam. Why do you think God had to bypass the seed of man and impregnate Mary, by the Holy Spirit? That proves the point! He did not have the flesh of Adams fall.

Then are you saying that Jesus was NOT REALLY TEMPTED by satan?

Have you been on these forums so long you have lost the ability to have an honest conversation Deb? Read my post in which I spoke of the Lords temptation and stop trying to play these ungodly word games.

 

[Brother Mike]

I agree, the perfect man and perfect God. He NEVER walked in the flesh, He walked in the Spirit.

Jesus did not start out in perfection, nor did Jesus have a different type of flesh. He did walk after the spirit though and was obedient unto death which obedience never is a willing choice otherwise it's not obedience.

There are just those things you type, knowing ahead that it will be misunderstood. Oh well, the wife needs something and no time to explain... sigh...

Mike.

 

[Deborah13]

His flesh was sinless, it not the same flesh as fallen man has received from Adam. Why do you think God had to bypass the seed of man and impregnate Mary, by the Holy Spirit? That proves the point! He did not have the flesh of Adams fall.

Then are you saying that Jesus was NOT REALLY TEMPTED by satan?

Have you been on these forums so long you have lost the ability to have an honest conversation Deb? Read my post in which I spoke of the Lords temptation and stop trying to play these ungodly word games.

You can try your best to insult me George, it won't work.
Just answer the question. Was Jesus REALLY TEMPTED by satan? Did Jesus, as the second Adam, REALLY overcome anything? What did He overcome and how?

 

[George Muller]

His flesh was sinless, it not the same flesh as fallen man has received from Adam. Why do you think God had to bypass the seed of man and impregnate Mary, by the Holy Spirit? That proves the point! He did not have the flesh of Adams fall.

Then are you saying that Jesus was NOT REALLY TEMPTED by satan?

Have you been on these forums so long you have lost the ability to have an honest conversation Deb? Read my post in which I spoke of the Lords temptation and stop trying to play these ungodly word games.

You can try your best to insult me George, it won't work.
Just answer the question. Was Jesus REALLY TEMPTED by satan? Did Jesus, as the second Adam, REALLY overcome anything? What did He overcome and how?

I have already answered that, and have received no honest response to the points that I made. Now I am either to believe that you did not see the post and are not willing to look, or else you are just playing games with words? Either way it not the conduct of one who seeks a honest discussion with a fellow Christian believer in the discussion of Gods Word. It is a (much used) tactic of those who come on these forums and seek to bring confusion and hinder the truth, when their doctrines of error are in danger of being exposed. Now if you desire an honest conversation, lets be honest. If your desire to double talk and act as if I have made such ignorant statements as to suggest the Lord was not tempted, then I will treat you as I do all those who in their pride, refuse to have an honest debate of the truth. I am humble to the humble and I am a unmoving rock to those who are in the error of pride. You decide what sort of conversation we will have on this issue?

 

[George Muller]

Jesus did not start out in perfection, nor did Jesus have a different type of flesh.

What? When was Jesus not perfect, where is your charge sin?