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Bible Study What fruit do you think the Tree of Life produced?

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Ummm... well, probably not a joke.
Read Paul, here: 1Timothy 2:14. There is another thread where I entered part way into this discussion before, and I think it was with 4afaithful one. Paul basically identifies certain details of the Genesis narrative, and indicates that Adam was not fooled because he was created first and received the law -- but Eve who was created later, came into existence after the Law was given; so she did not hear it directly from God.

It's an incomplete discussion, but the issue that's sort of getting tripped over here in this thread is that wisdom comes from God -- as in, the Law God gave to Adam is wisdom. I'm not sure how to say it better than that without making the confusion worse. So, read Paul and think carefully about what he says -- and if I can find the older thread I'll edit this and link to it so you can catch up. :) Sorry I know it's confusing when you first see the idea.... although it's quite biblical. It's the very reason Paul refused to allow women to teach in HIS churches.

Good post. :thumbsup
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You're adding a value to the scriptures that isn't there. There is no mention in the scriptures that Eve assumed she was eating from the Tree of Life.





We were discussing the Tree of Knowledge, not the Tree of Life. You stated that the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil shows one "HOW" to do evil and that having this knowledge makes one wise.

That's not true. :nono

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Correction needs to be addressed here, I did make a typo error in the original response and left out the important word "NOT" and Gary caught it, sorry for that.

NO, you have misunderstood me. I said that we agree that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil DOES NOT make one wise.
I was making sure you had no wiggle room when I showed this verse:
Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
KJV
The tree that she thought would come from the tree is the Fruit of the Spirit which is wisdom. She never says she expected to get knowledge of good and evil and to be like a god, she said to make one wise. Wisdom to understand right from wrong is not the same as knowledge(learning how to be) of good and evil. There is no need of knowledge of something if you do not plan to use the knowledge, right?
That is the sin that entered in, learning evil and good deeds. Hence the twins Cain (Evil) and Abel (Good).She was given the punishment of having children in her own body and with pain for her not knowing God's Word. No longer was it God just creating them like He did Adam without a natural womb.
They were given coats of skin (as we have today) being in our animal/beastly nature( as their "now god/father the devil, as we all have before we come to Christ) with reproductive organs for her to give birth and Adam to give the seed to her.
They, Adam and Eve, for the first time knew each other in the sexual sense, for there were no children birthed of Womb-man before the fall, and the birth of Cain and Abel.
 
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There are no excuses... GOD told her NO... do NOT eat of this tree and she did NOT listen!
God told Eve nothing. She had not been taken out of Adam yet when God told him. She obviously knew that there was a forbidden tree, but did not have all the truth as to which one.
Gen 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die
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Eve was not even here until God created all the animals first, then once Adam could not find a suitable mate among the Beasts(unlike today) God Divided Adam to make Eve, his better half, and the two make one whole flesh man. That is why opposites attract.

18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
KJV
 
NO, you have misunderstood me. I said that we agree that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil DOES NOT make one wise.

There was no misunderstanding. :nono

Look below and see for yourself.


Thank you for that answer. It was to learn HOW to do good and evil, not just to know right from wrong. But, we agree that the knowledge of good and evil is considered to make one wise right?

She never says she expected to get knowledge of good and evil and to be like a god, she said to make one wise.

Why do you think she assumed that eating the fruit would make one wise?

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Ummm... well, probably not a joke.
Read Paul, here: 1Timothy 2:14. There is another thread where I entered part way into this discussion before, and I think it was with 4afaithful one. Paul basically identifies certain details of the Genesis narrative, and indicates that Adam was not fooled because he was created first and received the law -- but Eve who was created later, came into existence after the Law was given; so she did not hear it directly from God.

It's an incomplete discussion, but the issue that's sort of getting tripped over here in this thread is that wisdom comes from God -- as in, the Law God gave to Adam is wisdom. I'm not sure how to say it better than that without making the confusion worse. So, read Paul and think carefully about what he says -- and if I can find the older thread I'll edit this and link to it so you can catch up. :) Sorry I know it's confusing when you first see the idea.... although it's quite biblical. It's the very reason Paul refused to allow women to teach in HIS churches.

Adam was defiled, like Solomon eventually was) by woman because he was the head of Eve, but ate to please Eve instead of taking authority over her. I have been born again of the Spirit, there is no gender in the spirit. Here we see that all of Jobs children were killed, but they are all called young men after death of their flesh?
Job 1:18 While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, Thy sons and thy daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house:
19 And, behold, there came a great wind from the wilderness, and smote the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young men, and they are dead; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
KJV
Adam was created in God's image meaning attributes. God is all things Male and Female yet we know Him as Male. Do you ever see a female angel in the Bible?
God made HE Him... then He divide Adam to make, He them. The Holy Spirit of God is the female side of God, The Dove, yet still called He.
I see you are directing these scriptures in regard to me to me teaching, yet there are many women on here who do the same.
Not all women spend their time talking with God, so sure, for the most part this is true that most should not. But at the risk of self imposed laughter, I think if God can use a donkey to speak for Him, He can use a woman's mouth to get His Word out.

1 Tim 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
KJV
Speaking about the woman being saved by child birth, this is not talking about natural child birth as in your flesh and blood children who reject Christ. But spiritual children she births for Christ by TEACHING them the Word of God to produce the fruit of the Spirit in them to live eternally. Flesh and blood can not inherit the kingdom of God and they can not save us, no matter how many we have. Yet if your flesh and blood child is saved, then they are spiritually birthed children for Christ. One Must be born again!
 
There was no misunderstanding. :nono

Look below and see for yourself.






Why do you think she assumed that eating the fruit would make one wise?

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I stand corrected Gary,
My apologies!
You have probably guessed by now that I am no grammar student or famous writer : )
I see what you mean, You did not misunderstand, but because of my Typo error of leaving out NOT it changed the meaning.
Sorry for this and I have corrected that in the original.
It isn’t the first time I have done that. But thank you for catching it : )
But clearly now, after I have showed you the rest and how she thought she would eat to get wise, that she obviously did not eat from the tree desiring to be like gods. Wisdom does not come from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
See though, how important it is to pay attention to every word, especially in the Bible for it is full of mysteries for those who seek, ask and knock.
 
But clearly now, after I have showed you the rest and how she thought she would eat to get wise, that she obviously did not eat from the tree desiring to be like gods.

What caused her to believe she could gain wisdom from the fruit of that tree?

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I don't disagree with you about this part although I am unsure of whether there is one tree or two in the midst of the Garden ; but if it were one tree, I am unsure if it bore one or many kinds of fruit. These are details worth looking into...
In the Babylonian depictions, there is a single tree -- but many fruits. In the Jewish temple, I only know of the palm tree -- and am unsure if many fruits were drawn or not. I do know that many people understand the menorah candle to be an image of the tree of life, for it has the dendritic structure of a tree -- but it burned pure olive oil ; so is more like the Garden of Gethsemane....

There is more you have written, but I am not sure what to make of it yet. I'll write more when I have a clearer understanding. I am not, of course, interested in entering into debate -- but only examining the bible and what can be found within it, and how -- historically -- it fit contextually into the world of it's peers and what relationship they bore to each other.
Issues of Prophecy, and the like, are probably better served in other forum sections. Hopefully, I have not been part of any "uprising" but only supplying additional information which people can discus or researched later in harmony with this forum's intention.

Thank you again About the Son of God for your input,
We all need to be open to what God’s Word is saying to us and not lean our own understanding, for His ways and thoughts are higher than ours. No one has all of God’s truth in complete, that is why we must share our bread with one another.

Wisdom is what the fruit of the tree of life gave.
Is not the fruit of the Spirit what teaches us wisdom? Isn’t the Word of God wisdom in letter form? On the Menorah, the lamp in the Midst of the Menorah is Christ The Light of the world and the 7 lamps are the 7 Spirits of God.
Rev 1:13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
KJV
Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
KJV
Rev 4:5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.
KJV
 
What caused her to believe she could gain wisdom from the fruit of that tree?

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As we can see from scripture, she obviously knew about the trees from Adam, but just as I left out NOT which made an error. There was error in the translation from Adam to Eve which allowed her to be deceived as to which tree she was not to eat of. She did not say we are not to eat of the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil, nor did she say we are not supposed to eat of the Tree of life…. She just said THE (single)Tree in the midst of the garden we are not to eat.
The fact that she thought to eat would make one wise shows she did know what the good tree was supposed to produce in her when she ate. But she rejected to eat from the tree (of life) in the midst that the serpent lied about and did not correct her and said it would make one to be like gods. Which shows she ate accidentally from the forbidden tree thinking it was the good tree, because she was able to be deceived.
 
My guess is a fig or olive tree because they seem to be the most common throughout scripture. Just a total guess.
Hi kiwidan,
It was not actually what fruit such as an apple or a plum that I was looking for, it was what the fruit of the Tree of life produced when eaten. I don’t believe that the fruit on these trees are actually like apples or oranges, but attributes. I don’t believe the trees were actual trees like we see. One taught us how to do good and evil and who does that that we know? The devil right?
And who teaches us how to live eternal life? Jesus right?, The Word and The Spirit is who gives us the way, the truth and the life by filling us with wisdom to know how to Discern the difference between good and evil so we don‘t fall.
 
There was error in the translation from Adam to Eve which allowed her to be deceived as to which tree she was not to eat of.

Genesis 3
2 And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden;
3 but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.’”


Verse 3 clearly indicates that Eve did in fact know which tree to avoid.

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So, do you think that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil produces wisdom like God's wisdom or just good and evil thinking and doing?

I believe that before they ate of this tree, they only followed the Holy Spirit. When they ate of the knowledge of good and evil tree, they couldn't distinguish what was good and what was evil anymore.

At that point they had to die physically, because they could go either way spiritually.
 
Adam was defiled, like Solomon eventually was) by woman because he was the head of Eve, but ate to please Eve instead of taking authority over her.

I agree about Solomon, and although I have taken your exact stance regarding Adam and Eve in the past -- and I think it fairly astute, there is a subtle issue in your reply; and I'd like to set things as straight as I can for reference of my own thinking; (you may want to read the following post before this one, as this one turned out rather long for a subtle point and the other may be more comforting...)

Note: The 'woman' was not called Eve at the time of the sin. A name signifies a person's glory and also the namer's power over them. Just so, it's important to notice that Adam's first words about her were: (Genesis 2:23) "she will be called woman." eg: future tense, but generic name.

But, regarding Adam -- just being a woman doesn't make a person a man's wife fully. Adam is not the husband of every woman who walked the earth in his lifetime. The name alone, by itself, is insufficient to guarantee total rights over her as wife, though it does suggest he had power over her. So -- I am unsure that Eve was totally under Adam's power ; at least, I think she was not more under his power than animals were before she 'knew' Adam in a sexual intercourse fashion and can be seen fully in the role of wife.

It is only *AFTER* she ate of the fruit of knowledge of Good and Evil, and God curses the ground from which they came (and hence their children), it is only then, that Adam *renames* her Eve. see: Genesis 3:17-20. It is as if Adam realizes God isn't going to form another human being out of the dust, but rather that they shall all come from her.

Again -- the depictions of the tree of life are often interchanged with the image of a king in the same place as the tree in ancient cultures -- for the King takes on the role of bringing his people life. So -- In essence, Adam by naming his woman with the same name as the tree of life, eg: "Eve" -- that would be understood by ancient peoples as Adam giving her the title of 'queen'. ( Genesis 3:16 ) rather than Adam giving her the name of the tainted tree of knowledge of Good and Evil. (kalon & Porn).

It is not a coincidence, then, that Deborah, the woman Judge (a ruler like to a queen but not by blood descent) is said to have held court under a date palm. eg: A tree with a known shape similar to depictions of the tree of life in many ancient cultures. Judges 4:4-5. I say this because Deborah's judgments brought life to the Israelite people in settling disputes.

I have been born again of the Spirit, there is no gender in the spirit. Here we see that all of Jobs children were killed, but they are all called young men after death of their flesh?

I don't know why you mention Job's daughters and say "men"; what does the quote have to do with the logic of the Spirit?
Woman comes from man, in the general sense (generic), so words like mankind automatically include women in biblical writing. In the passage you just quoted, the women may simply have died in a different way than the sons -- but the concern is explicit for the son's because of inheritances and for the same reason, the daughters (which could be grandchildren, by the way) are ignored... or it may be that we're merely seeing a translation issue, where 'men' should be understood to mean 'your children' in general. I don't know why the author translated it this particular way -- but it's not a stable issue to build your faith on -- as other bibles are going to translate it differently.

Adam was created in God's image meaning attributes. God is all things Male and Female yet we know Him as Male. Do you ever see a female angel in the Bible?

No. I have never seen a female angel in or out of the bible -- so please explicitly exclude the misnomer AKA centerfolds.
But I don't see God as all things Female, not at all -- he is 'Father', and 'Son' and 'Spirit'.

These three names themselves tell us all there is to know.

Father is Male, and is origin or progenitor.
Son is Male, offspring of the Father.
Spirit is 'Life'. eg: That which is found in the blood.


God made HE Him... then He divide Adam to make, He them. The Holy Spirit of God is the female side of God, The Dove, yet still called He.

hmmm....
It's not really proper to use the gender endings in languages to determine the sex of 'Spirit'. For The word for spirit is sometimes female in Hebrew Scriptures, but explicitly neuter (non-sexed) in the Greek scriptures like the new testament. There is no Gender associated with it. However, when Jesus calls the spirit 'paraclete', and reveals it to be God -- that word is never found in the Hebrew -- but is only new testament Greek, eg: παράκλη-τ-ος. so: Whenever God is revealed as person, the gender ending is male.

There are, I believe, references in Job to the verb paraclete, and if one looks at the Hebrew for that -- I think it will be plural and therefore end in the masculine yod-mem, I think. (But you might want to check to be sure... I'm just going from memory.) But even then, it's not a noun/participle... so the gender is probably irrelevant.

There is only one potentially female ending regarding the Spirit, and that is the Greek ending of 'dove'. So when the Spirit is revealed in the 'boldily form of a dove' (Luke 3:22), you will find that a lexicon will generally list it as feminine. But that's a somewhat hollow apologetic, as the word doesn't really have a true / normally feminine ending -- but is instead a word that ends in 'r' (rho), and is therefore irregular and just grouped for convenience with feminine words although -- strictly speaking notice that the word for male/man (ane-r) is ἀνή-ρ is also a word ending in RHO) and so *could* be listed as 'female'. But that's laughable -- it's male.

Let me try and share a better logical footing:
What we know about the Spirit, is that it calls out beside one's self and gives advice / comfort; That's why it's called "Paraclete" in the New testament eg: by Jesus ( http://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/14-16.htm ) ; and secondly we know that spirit means "life" ; for spirit -- or aspiration -- or spriation -- means to inhale or exhale, the vital sign of being alive.

Now, note two things: the name of 'life' is exactly the name Adam gives to his wife Eve -- BECAUSE -- she is the mother of all the living -- and secondly, Eve's position as queen is to give advice to the king (Adam).
So -- I will admit, that although the Spirit is masculine -- that it takes on a somewhat feminine role as laid out by Adam.

But consider it carefully, Femininity is drawn out of masculinity; And the Spirit comes from both the father and [through] the Son -- This might help explain my understand: Consider the human body as an analogy to femininity being 'drawn' from masculinity or from God -- The human body is made up of Chromosomes, and the male Chromosomes is a combination of X and Y types. It is NEVER two Y types. But -- When God created woman out of man, he did NOT create a W chromosome -- rather, he took *only* the X chromosome from the man.
This is a scientific fact; A woman has two copies of X chromosomes -- for she is part of man ; not entirely different, and not more than ; and a man is both X and Y chromosome. A male, contains the substance (bodily) of a female.

SO: Just as the X and Y chromosomes in the man's body must work *together* as equal chromosomes with some dominant and some recessive traits on each to make the body of a single person -- but Male -- there is nothing wrong with saying that *in* God the feminine traits are to be found.

Again: husband and wife must also work together (as equals) to be healthy in a marriage. And in God, the source of the image of mankind -- can transcend male or female, but contain both in himself. We are meant for some kind of (non-sexual) union with his Spirit.
 
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I see you are directing these scriptures in regard to me to me teaching, yet there are many women on here who do the same.

Let me first of all say that if you truly/strongly feel this way, that I appreciate your patience with me. Your demeanor has been very graceful in the face of what must have seemed harsh even though I don't intend it that way.

It's not my place to judge you in regard to whether you share on the site or not.
As you are a woman (I assume from Icon and you saying 'other' women), but not my wife, and I've not been assigned as pastor to anyone -- I have no authority over you ; to me you are simply a sister in Christ. This thread being yours, however, it pretty much must feel like it's all aimed at you whether it is or isn't.

Here in bible study, it's my goal to bring in information and study details -- and unfortunately, that also means other people's comments may color your view of what I have said. I understand what it's like to make a typo, and then eat humble pie.... I've tried not to add to it.

Let me say again and perhaps you will see something you missed before, Deborah the *female* prophetess, is seen under the date palm tree -- a symbol of the tree of life. The tree of life identifies her as in a queenly role with the people of Israel. She is the female equivalent of a charismatic Judge of the people (they had no official king or queen at the time, but only Judges who answered to God as the king.)

Judaism and Christianity are therefore not intrinsically anti-woman. The puritanical English morals of the middle ages have very much colored our present American perspective of what the bible means in certain places, and that is very unfortunate.

Even Paul says elsewhere that he commends, I think it was Phoebe the 'deaconess' (feminine deacon/servant); a name which is automatically indicative of at least a minor teaching position within his own church. (Perhaps with children, but adults are not ruled out). So Paul's words have to be understood in the context of a cosmology, or temple worship arrangement, or a subject known as typology. And secondly, there is something of a personal discipline issue there -- for he does not say, "Christ says, no woman shall teach..." rather Paul says "*I*" will not let a woman usurp a man.

Consider what happens when Jesus talks to his own mother at Cana: John 2:3-7
She says to him, "They have no wine"
He states a very harsh sounding reply to our ears, calling her by the generic name of 'woman' eg: pre-fall eve.
And, then, she DOES NOT BACK DOWN -- but refuses to even answer Jesus directly, but says to SOMEONE ELSE: "Do whatever he tells you."
And, then, Jesus acts to fulfill both commands and statement of problem that was issued by her.

Jesus had a responsibility, for it was him bringing a large number of disciples to the wedding (unexpected guests) which led to a situation where there was no wine. HIs mother reminds him of it -- but indirectly. He LISTENS to her, every bit as much as Adam listened to the Woman of his day -- and the result is *a miracle*, not a sin.

If I were to quote just the sentence about Jesus talking back to his mother, however, it will automatically bias the majority of readers to believe I am placing Jesus as man dominant over women, and likewise men over women; Yet we can not talk about it, if I don't bring it up -- and the actual result of the passage is somewhat the opposite of what it sounds like. eg: Jesus doesn't rebuke her a second time -- but in fact acts on the first request she made without modification of any kind, not extra denials, and acts very much as if she need have said nothing more to him in the first place.
 
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This is true and every word that woman spoke would be indisputable.
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:chin
But, don't you think people (on average) would more likely believe the donkey ? ( Numbers 22:28-29 )
If a donkey and a woman were side by side, and speaking prophecies for all to hear in plain English (Certifiably with no trick electronics in the donkey), and you had to choose which of them really was a miracle and which was a Charlatain ?
Which would you choose to be more likely the work of God ?
 
Which would you choose to be more likely the work of God ?

I understand what you're saying, but the donkey isn't playing a part in this scenario, other than being used as an example.

What I'm saying is if someone came forward, male or female, and claimed to be speaking for God, their words would be without error.

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