Lewis
Member
Speaking of Mitt Romney, lets see what the Mormons believe. This link has a good article on what Mormonism is, it is a must read for knowledge.
http://www.whatismormonism.com/
http://www.whatismormonism.com/
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What is Mormonism?
- Thread starter Lewis
- Start date
abide
Member
Oh, we may soon have a president that is becoming God. What a privilege huh? But all is not lost for we do read in Daniel 4:17, ". . To the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever He will, and setteth up over it the basest of men."
'As man is, God once was; as God is, man may be.'" (LDS Apostle James E. Talmage, Articles of Faith, Ch.24, p.430 - p.431, LDS Collectors Library '97 CD-ROM)
He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did.' The Father is a glorified, perfected, resurrected, exalted man who worked out his salvation by obedience to the same laws he has given to us so that we may do the same." (LDS Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, p.64, LDS Collectors Library '97 CD-ROM)
'As man is, God once was; as God is, man may be.'" (LDS Apostle James E. Talmage, Articles of Faith, Ch.24, p.430 - p.431, LDS Collectors Library '97 CD-ROM)
He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did.' The Father is a glorified, perfected, resurrected, exalted man who worked out his salvation by obedience to the same laws he has given to us so that we may do the same." (LDS Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, p.64, LDS Collectors Library '97 CD-ROM)
Drummer4Christ
Member
Can someone direct me to the thread entitled "What is Black Liberation Theology"?
If we are going to examine presidential candidates religion, surely we should investigate the beliefs of Trinity United Church of Christ. Of which the pastors sermons included messages such as "not God bless America, God damn America" and (referring to the events on September 11th) "[Americas] chickens have come home to roost."
If we are going to examine presidential candidates religion, surely we should investigate the beliefs of Trinity United Church of Christ. Of which the pastors sermons included messages such as "not God bless America, God damn America" and (referring to the events on September 11th) "[Americas] chickens have come home to roost."
Pizzaguy
Member
Sounds a lot better to me than the current occupant.
Christ_empowered
Member
I don't know. I'm not big on mormonism, but then again...how far should we go with analyzing a prez candidate's religious beliefs? for us, we're looking for a solid christian. Liberals are looking for someone who's anything but Christian. Atheists don't want someone with any religious beliefs. I guess as long as the religion in question isn't based on values that might lead me to believe that, as prez, the person would harm the country, I don't think I'd care that much.
That said...from what little I've read on mormonism, I'm confused and a little bit frightened. One thing I don't understand...why is Mormonism so relatively popular? Their beliefs strike me as ridiculous. What's the appeal?
That said...from what little I've read on mormonism, I'm confused and a little bit frightened. One thing I don't understand...why is Mormonism so relatively popular? Their beliefs strike me as ridiculous. What's the appeal?
People are not fooled into converting to Mormonism if they already know their beliefs. But this is the biggest problem that the Christian church faces concerning Mormons. The fact is, THEY LIE RIGHT TO YOUR FACE!!! I can get a Mormon missionary to lie to me in 10 seconds. Every one of them. All I have to do is say, "I heard that Mormons believe that God the Father was once a man". This is where the lie takes place. They either deny it or they give a look that what you said was inaccurate. That look is also a lie because it is insinuating that it is not true. Then I give them the following quotes:
"Here, then, is eternallife – to know the only wise and true God; and you have got tolearn how to be gods yourselves." (Joseph Smith, Jr. – JofD,Vol. 2 p. 345)
“Godhimself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sitsenthroned in yonder heavens!” - JosephSmith's King Follet Sermon
(As printed in History of the Church,Vol. 6, p. 302-317)
This act of lying is VERY effective. Because you never expect that people who are at your door, who claim to represent God, would ever such a thing intentionally! This happend to me actually. They denied it even before I asked, and I was honestly mad at the Christian leaders for misrepresenting them (mormons). Then I looked up those things and confronted them. They admitted to me that they really did believe that. This is why their lying is so effective:
Tell them that Jesus is quotingPsalm 82 where the people in that chapter were unjust judges withgreat authority. And those judges in Psalm 82 were judges with greatauthority but were sinning against God.
In both examples, the peoplethat were called “gods” were unsaved and sinning agianst God. The word “gods” in their language had more than one meaning justlike the english word “cool” can mean either good or cold.
Exodus 21:6 and Exodus 22:8 bothuse the same words for “gods” and they clearly refer to judges.
"Here, then, is eternallife – to know the only wise and true God; and you have got tolearn how to be gods yourselves." (Joseph Smith, Jr. – JofD,Vol. 2 p. 345)
“Godhimself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sitsenthroned in yonder heavens!” - JosephSmith's King Follet Sermon
(As printed in History of the Church,Vol. 6, p. 302-317)
This act of lying is VERY effective. Because you never expect that people who are at your door, who claim to represent God, would ever such a thing intentionally! This happend to me actually. They denied it even before I asked, and I was honestly mad at the Christian leaders for misrepresenting them (mormons). Then I looked up those things and confronted them. They admitted to me that they really did believe that. This is why their lying is so effective:
Rev 21:8
8 "But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." - Because they are lost, they serve the evil one
8 "But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." - Because they are lost, they serve the evil one
John 8:44
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Lies can only be a bless the liar IF he is serving the Father of lies. Lying is a tool of Satan he he uses it effectively.
Anyway, once you have confronted them, they will immediately defend that doctrine by bringing up John 10:34-35. When they do,
ask them if they are literal“gods” then whydid they try to kill Jesus? Ask them, “If you are trying to prove that people can become'gods', then why are they usingan example of people who were going to hell?”Tell them that Jesus is quotingPsalm 82 where the people in that chapter were unjust judges withgreat authority. And those judges in Psalm 82 were judges with greatauthority but were sinning against God.
In both examples, the peoplethat were called “gods” were unsaved and sinning agianst God. The word “gods” in their language had more than one meaning justlike the english word “cool” can mean either good or cold.
Exodus 21:6 and Exodus 22:8 bothuse the same words for “gods” and they clearly refer to judges.
The most important thing to do is to let people know that Mormons WILL lie to you right to your face. And people need to know that. Try it out for yourself. You will see that it works every time.
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joethemechanic
Member
Masonic symbols on their underwear? Huh? 
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Pizzaguy
Member
I'm willing to bet you aren't very effective in reaching Mormons.
You are throwing the terms "lie" and "liar" around rather loosely.
Muslims and Jews, using similar arguments, can make the case that we are liars.
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Actually, I have helped people out of the Mormon church. My message is defined by the context of the people to whom I am speaking. Yes, I am sure there are Mormons here but there are many Christians here as well. And personally, I want them to be equipped. The example that I mentioned above is a lie that they commit regularly. I do not have to shy away from the term "lie" if it is true that that's what they do. Seriously, give it a try. Say it just how I wrote it and see if the Mormon missionaries don't lie to you.
Haha, that reminds me of something someone said. This someone majored in philosophy at university and is among the smartest people I know. He said that he couldn't understand why people believe Mormonism either and that he could make up a better religion than that. I think he may have said that to some missionaries' faces.
I suppose it's funnier because I know this guy and just how smart he is, and that he probably could make up a better religion.
providence
Member
I found more about this on http://www.irr.org/mit/finessing-god-once-a-man.html and it surely is a huge matter. It also stresses caution: "Be aware that fewer and fewer Mormons hold to or are even aware of the doctrine that God was once a man like us and that men can become Gods. Exercise caution and do not assume or accuse the Mormon of believing these things; there is a good chance they don’t."
"But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end." Psalm 102.
Everyone I have questioned DOES believe it. And there have been many. I remember the first time this happened. After I showed them the quotes, they admitted to believing it and said, "It is truth that people are not ready to hear." Then they brought with them the book "Mormon Doctrine" which LDS claim is not their official doctrine, and then proceeded to expound on it's teachings. And there have been many that I have had the same experience. They believe it, but lie about it.
jonjon1,
You're correct, they believe their god the father is a man. Their name for him in the "adamic language" is actually Ahman. A-man. Ironic huh?
http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Ahman
http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/God_the_Father
They even worship the Heavenly Mother in their hymms - "In the heav'ns are parents single? No, the thought makes reason stare! Truth is reason; truth eternal Tells me I've a mother there. When I leave this frail existence, When I lay this mortal by, Father, Mother, may I meet you In your royal courts on high? [Hymn no. 292]"
http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Mother_in_Heaven
They do not know her name, but we do. Asteroth - the Queen of Heaven, the pagan fertility goddess.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashtoreth
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astaroth
You're correct, they believe their god the father is a man. Their name for him in the "adamic language" is actually Ahman. A-man. Ironic huh?
http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Ahman
http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/God_the_Father
They even worship the Heavenly Mother in their hymms - "In the heav'ns are parents single? No, the thought makes reason stare! Truth is reason; truth eternal Tells me I've a mother there. When I leave this frail existence, When I lay this mortal by, Father, Mother, may I meet you In your royal courts on high? [Hymn no. 292]"
http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Mother_in_Heaven
They do not know her name, but we do. Asteroth - the Queen of Heaven, the pagan fertility goddess.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashtoreth
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astaroth
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stovebolts
Member
JonJon1 said:
I'm not defending Mormonism so please don't take me wrong. But I see this same thing in mainstream Christianity.
As far as being God's yourself, you are correct, Psalms is speaking of Judges, and those judges were considered the "Son of God" Exodus 4:22-23 ) in the same way Moses was viewed as a God in Exodus 7:1 . I'm ceratain this is what Jesus had in mind in John 10.
I am wondering if the quote above stems from this line of thought?
As far as the other quote you've provided. I read that though what I believe is erroneous trinity theology that states that Jesus is God, yet he became a man and now sits in heaven. Many on this very forum who are not Mormon would agree with Joseph Smith's above statement.
That quote speaks of God the Father. Here is a more of the quote so you can see:
"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted Man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret. If the vail was rent today, and the great God who holds this world in its orbit; and who upholds all worlds and all things by his power, was to make himself visible-I say, if you were to see him today, you would see him like a man in form-like yourselves, in all the person, image, and very form as a man; for Adam was created in the very fashion, image, and likeness of God, and received instructions from, and walked, talked, and conversed with him, as one man talks and communes with another.
It is necessary we should understand the character and being of God, and how he came to be so; for I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and will take away the vail, so that you may see. It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God, and to know that we may converse with him as one man converses with another, and that he was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did."
Hope that helps.
BTW, I think people are still having a hard time believing that Mormons missionaries would intentionally lie. And I can't believe I forgot to mention this. But as you know that the first president in the Mormon church (the prophet) is believed to be God's representative on earth. He is supposedly called by God to lead the church. Before Thomas Monson, it was Gordon Hinkley. This is what Hinkley said regarding that doctrine:
Do a search on: "home hinckley god once man" You will see that Hinckley himself lied about this. And go ahead and read the Mormon response. They claim that he was taken out of context. You can search: "Does President Gordon B. Hinckley Understand LDS Doctrine" Their defense just does not hold water.
BTW, Stove, what is it that you believe?
Mike
Member
I see the Mormon cult as being extremely deceptive from a wide angle lens. From within, they set themselves apart from biblical Christianity, but to the world, they cloak themselves in disguise in order to appear to be a Christian church and gain converts. In moving from "Mormon" to "The Church of Jesus Christ & Latter Day Saints", they hid their heresy behind the Name above all names.
That said, I've known a good number of Mormons, and what I've heard most of the time is that this is a doctrine that Joseph Smith taught, it is a belief of theirs, but it's a "minor" belief in the grand scheme of things. (minor????) They say it's not discussed much in the church. It's very clear why they would want to stuff the teaching that God was once a man who ascended to be the god of his own planet under a rug and pretend he didn't say that. I don't know how they can know that Smith claimed this (and other heresies) was revealed to him and still believe that he was a prophet.
I wonder how many modern day Mormons believe this, but that puzzles me even more. Why devote your life to a church when you see clear teachings that you believe were wrong? If something like the origin of God is flawed, that should discredit the whole thing!
These are the teachings of Mormonism that trouble me the most:
That said, I've known a good number of Mormons, and what I've heard most of the time is that this is a doctrine that Joseph Smith taught, it is a belief of theirs, but it's a "minor" belief in the grand scheme of things. (minor????) They say it's not discussed much in the church. It's very clear why they would want to stuff the teaching that God was once a man who ascended to be the god of his own planet under a rug and pretend he didn't say that. I don't know how they can know that Smith claimed this (and other heresies) was revealed to him and still believe that he was a prophet.
I wonder how many modern day Mormons believe this, but that puzzles me even more. Why devote your life to a church when you see clear teachings that you believe were wrong? If something like the origin of God is flawed, that should discredit the whole thing!
These are the teachings of Mormonism that trouble me the most:
- God was once a mortal that ascended to godhood.
- God is one of many gods.
- We can aspire to be gods of our own planets.
- Jesus is not eternal but was created at some point by God as is any angel.
- Baptizing of the dead.
Sorry for being so long winded on this subject but I have gone through a lot with them. And I only want Christians to be aware of not only what they believe, but it is critical that they know that the mormon missionaries will intentionally lie to get you to convert. Mormons are extremely nice. And in some cases, will even help people. By lying, they think they are helping you. So they have GREAT intentions. But when it comes to Mormonism, it's lie or die. Lying is a tremendous tool that they use on the mission field as well. I have had some personal experience with them doing that in the Philippines.
Mike, I think you will find this interesting:
Book of Abraham 4
3 And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light; and there was light.
4 And they (the Gods) comprehended the light, for it was bright; and they divided the light, or caused it to be divided, from the darkness.
5 And the Gods called the light Day, and the darkness they called Night. And it came to pass that from the evening until morning they called night; and from the morning until the evening they called day; and this was the first, or the beginning, of that which they called day and night.
This portion of "scripture" comes from the "pearl of great price". This is only the beginning. It goes on and on substituting the word "God" for "Gods" throughout the creation account. I am firmly convinced that most Mormons in the USA believe that God was once a man. That has been my experience. Truth is, any Christian can do the research and find out that that is what they believe. But Mormons know that Christians are lazy and that almost all Christians are unaware of their lying tactics. And as long as Christians are unaware of them, they will continue to be led astray.
BTW, here is a couple of things I think you will also mind interesting:
(These come from the Book of Mormon)
II Nephi 2:22-25
22 And now, behold, if Adam had not transgressed he would not have fallen, but he would have remained in the garden of Eden. And all things which were created must have remained in the same state in which they were after they were created; and they must have remained forever, and had no end.
23 And they would have had no children; wherefore they would have remained in a state of innocence, having no joy, for they knew no misery; doing no good, for they knew no sin.
24 But behold, all things have been done in the wisdom of him who knoweth all things.
25 Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy
II Nephi 25:23
23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.
I did not put in the words "after all we can do". That is in their Book of Mormon. I know it is hard to believe but it's there. You can look it up online yourself
Mike, I think you will find this interesting:
Book of Abraham 4
3 And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light; and there was light.
4 And they (the Gods) comprehended the light, for it was bright; and they divided the light, or caused it to be divided, from the darkness.
5 And the Gods called the light Day, and the darkness they called Night. And it came to pass that from the evening until morning they called night; and from the morning until the evening they called day; and this was the first, or the beginning, of that which they called day and night.
This portion of "scripture" comes from the "pearl of great price". This is only the beginning. It goes on and on substituting the word "God" for "Gods" throughout the creation account. I am firmly convinced that most Mormons in the USA believe that God was once a man. That has been my experience. Truth is, any Christian can do the research and find out that that is what they believe. But Mormons know that Christians are lazy and that almost all Christians are unaware of their lying tactics. And as long as Christians are unaware of them, they will continue to be led astray.
BTW, here is a couple of things I think you will also mind interesting:
(These come from the Book of Mormon)
II Nephi 2:22-25
22 And now, behold, if Adam had not transgressed he would not have fallen, but he would have remained in the garden of Eden. And all things which were created must have remained in the same state in which they were after they were created; and they must have remained forever, and had no end.
23 And they would have had no children; wherefore they would have remained in a state of innocence, having no joy, for they knew no misery; doing no good, for they knew no sin.
24 But behold, all things have been done in the wisdom of him who knoweth all things.
25 Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy
II Nephi 25:23
23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.
I did not put in the words "after all we can do". That is in their Book of Mormon. I know it is hard to believe but it's there. You can look it up online yourself