What is the 'mark' of a True Christian

[mutzrein]

I see that according to a certain ‘righteousone’ there are four marks of the ‘True Church’.

Now I don’t intend this to be a ‘catholic’ debate but I would like to ask what the mark of a True Christian is.

Is it one who is deemed to be part of the ‘true church’ (whatever that may be), or is there another mark - or marks?

 

[CatholicXian]

Good question.

I would argue the 'mark' of a "True Christian" is Baptism.

Baptism leaves an indelible mark on the soul. Baptism is more than a cleansing ritual, as St. Paul says, in Baptism we die with Christ and rise again with Him. Baptism is truly an entering into the mystery of Christ--His life, death, and resurrection.

 

[Imagican]

Mutz,

You would already be aware of my understanding, (mostly), but let's see how it 'stacks up'.

Being 'born again' is the ONLY sign of a TRUE Christian. It is apparent in the understanding of one that has received this 'transformation'.

Is it 'brought about by Baptism'? Not in MY case. I did BECOME Baptised AFTER the FACT, but it played NO part in the actual event.

I had intended to 'start a new thread' on this very issue, but 'hOOrah', God does work in mysterious ways indeed.

I'll 'Be bahk.

MEC

 

[CatholicXian]

MEC,

Baptism is the water of rebirth... we die to self, and are reborn anew in Christ.

Titus 3:5 "...according to His mercy He saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost" (regeneration=reborn)

Romans 6:3-11 "Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. For he who has died has been freed from sin. Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord." ("baptized into His death"=died, "newness of life"=rebirth... dead to sin and alive (reborn) in Christ Jesus)

I think the Scriptures make a pretty strong argument for Baptism="being born again".

 

[mutzrein]

Good question.

I would argue the 'mark' of a "True Christian" is Baptism.

Baptism leaves an indelible mark on the soul. Baptism is more than a cleansing ritual, as St. Paul says, in Baptism we die with Christ and rise again with Him. Baptism is truly an entering into the mystery of Christ--His life, death, and resurrection.

Mmmm - sounds like a 'water-mark'

 

[Catholic Crusader]

Good question.

I would argue the 'mark' of a "True Christian" is Baptism.

Baptism leaves an indelible mark on the soul. Baptism is more than a cleansing ritual, as St. Paul says, in Baptism we die with Christ and rise again with Him. Baptism is truly an entering into the mystery of Christ--His life, death, and resurrection.

Mmmm - sounds like a 'water-mark'

We believe that, besides removing original sin, it places an idellible "mark" on you, meaning that you have been adopted into the covenant family of God.

 

[CatholicXian]

Good question.

I would argue the 'mark' of a "True Christian" is Baptism.

Baptism leaves an indelible mark on the soul. Baptism is more than a cleansing ritual, as St. Paul says, in Baptism we die with Christ and rise again with Him. Baptism is truly an entering into the mystery of Christ--His life, death, and resurrection.

Mmmm - sounds like a 'water-mark'

A permanent one. Water is the physical instrument (and a fitting one at that) to represent God's interior action of grace on the soul.

Ephesians 4:4-6 "There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all."
St. Paul seemed to think Baptism pretty important to the Christian life.

 

[Imagican]

But 'let me add this':

Just 'sprinkling water' on a child or adult does NOT necessarily offer 're-birth'. For NO amount of 'water' is ABLE to TRULY bring about 're-birth'. The circumcision of one's heart MUST take place for actual 're-birth'.

Which leads to this question:

Not 'what is the 'mark' of a 'True Christian', but HAVE 'you' BEEN 're-born'? How does one KNOW if they have experienced 're-birth'?

I would be MOST interested in hearing what others have to offer concerning this 'very issue'. I'll wait till there have been a 'few' replies and then offer testimony of 'my own'.

"Water Mark'', Mutz, you are a 'cleaver guy', (LOL).

MEC

 

[CatholicXian]

Just 'sprinkling water' on a child or adult does NOT necessarily offer 're-birth'. For NO amount of 'water' is ABLE to TRULY bring about 're-birth'. The circumcision of one's heart MUST take place for actual 're-birth'.

It is God who acts, and not man. The Baptism ritual is is not merely sprinkling water on anyone, it is the pouring out of grace into the soul. Baptism (and the other Sacraments for that matter) are not dependent upon us, but upon God, because it is He who acts in the soul. All we can do is be open.

 

[Imagican]

Just 'sprinkling water' on a child or adult does NOT necessarily offer 're-birth'. For NO amount of 'water' is ABLE to TRULY bring about 're-birth'. The circumcision of one's heart MUST take place for actual 're-birth'.

It is God who acts, and not man. The Baptism ritual is is not merely sprinkling water on anyone, it is the pouring out of grace into the soul. Baptism (and the other Sacraments for that matter) are not dependent upon us, but upon God, because it is He who acts in the soul. All we can do is be open.

While what you 'say' is truth, the fact is that what you say isn't really the 'truth' behind the doctrine that you preach.

Sprinkling a 'baby' has NO effect on that baby so far as ANYTHING that we have been TAUGHT through Christ or His apostles. That you SAY that this 'may be' ORAL tradition means little so far as 'truth' in concerned. For TRUE Baptism that MATTERS is NOT simply being 'exposed' to literal water, but the Baptism of THE SPIRIT which can be accomplished WITH or WITHOUT actual water.

From what YOU offer I could literally FORCE someone's exposure to water and that would cleanse them. Absolutely rediculous in it's very conception. And MANY that have been Baptised are STILL following 'false gods' and CANNOT be 'truly born again' through such a practice OR belief.

MEC

 

[CatholicXian]

And MANY that have been Baptised are STILL following 'false gods' and CANNOT be 'truly born again' through such a practice OR belief.

Because people can (and do) choose to reject Christ after they have been given the gift of Faith. We are offered the grace to persevere in our Baptismal Promises everyday by the Holy Spirit, and each and every moment during the day we are making a decision to accept or reject that grace that's been offered to us. Sin is a rejection of that grace.

God doesn't force anyone to do anything. He pours out His grace and we can embrace it, or we can reject it. Just because baptized people still sin doesn't mean the Baptism was ineffective, it means they have rejected God's grace.

 

[stovebolts]

MEC,

The question was, "What is the 'mark' of a True Christian.

For TRUE Baptism that MATTERS is NOT simply being 'exposed' to literal water, but the Baptism of THE SPIRIT which can be accomplished WITH or WITHOUT actual water.

While what you say holds truth, it is normative that those who call themselves 'Christian', have obeyed the gospel and have been baptized. Thus, baptism is a mark that all Christians should bear
as it is the first commandment which a new believer can submit in obedience to.

A mark also takes a physical form as 'being' a christian binds us toward living in a manner pleasing to God. But more to the point of Baptism being that 'mark', I would offer this.

Genesis 17:13-14
Whether born in your household or bought with your money, they must be circumcised. My covenant in your flesh is to be an everlasting covenant. Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant."

The first century Church viewed baptism as a mark of being a part of the Church (Acts chapter 2) much like Israel viewed circumcision as a mark of being in covenant with YHVH. If one has not purposfully been baptized in water, then I would question their walk with God or their identity within the church. (Not to bolster my own esteem, but rather to inquire why one would suffer such a simple command)

 

[Catholic Crusader]

a

But 'let me add this':

Just 'sprinkling water' on a child or adult does NOT necessarily offer 're-birth'. For NO amount of 'water' is ABLE to TRULY bring about 're-birth'.....

That is your belief but not mine. A "sacrament" is a channel of grace. By definition, a
"sacrament" "effects what it symbolizes".

 

[Imagican]

And I still offer that scripture PLAINLY states that it is Spiritual Baptism that IS ABLE to 'save'. Water Baptism is simply an OUTWARD admittance to one's brothers and sisters IN Christ. But the 'circumcision' of one's HEART is what one RECEIVES upon being 'born again' REGARDLESS of 'literal baptism'.

I know, I know, once again I am forced to battle the rudiments of denominationalism. But the TRUTH is that water means NOTHING outside of Spirit. I have witnessed, (as I'm sure there are those here that can testify to the SAME), those that would HANG Christ on a 'cross' over and over again through an ATTEMPT at finding TRUE baptism of the Spirit through the simple use of 'water'. I have YET to witness that water baptism is able to DO anything other than 'get one WET'. True cleansing of the Spirit can ONLY be accomplished THROUGH The Spirit. And plain ole H2O is nothing other than a 'part of this physical world' in which we live.

A COMPLETE submission TO The Spirit is the ONLY means of cleansing that I have personally witnessed. For I have SEEN those that have been DUNKED continue in EVERYTHING that they did PREVIOUS to their physical baptism. So, while what you folks offers SOUNDS good, that is basically ALL that it is ABLE to DO, "appease the soul of those that adhere to it".

Now, who out there would CARE to give testimony on THEIR personal 're-birth'? For 'talk is CHEAP' when it comes to 'what if' and 'if so'. I will be waiting to hear 'something of substance' concerning this issue. And 'belief' means LITTLE if it is NOT based on TRUTH. Tell me about YOU 'being RE-BORN. And then let's move on from THERE.

MEC

 

[CatholicXian]

MEC,

No one is arguing that water alone is the cause of rebirth. The Holy Spirit is the cause of rebirth, water is simply the physical instrument because we are physical AND spiritual creatures. God created us that way.

 

[GraceBwithU]

The mark of a true Christian…hum let me see.
Temperance, diligence, patience, kindness, and humility come to mind.
:-D

 

[francisdesales]

The mark of a true Christian…hum let me see.
Temperance, diligence, patience, kindness, and humility come to mind.
:-D

Yes, but how about just "LOVE"...

Biblical love, not secular, commercial, sappy love. A love willing to die to one's self.

That is the mark of a true Christian, to love as Christ did.

Regards

 

[mutzrein]

MEC,

No one is arguing that water alone is the cause of rebirth. The Holy Spirit is the cause of rebirth, water is simply the physical instrument because we are physical AND spiritual creatures. God created us that way.

That's interesting. I'm still trying to make the connection between the two. Could you take me through the process please.

 

[CatholicXian]

MEC,

No one is arguing that water alone is the cause of rebirth. The Holy Spirit is the cause of rebirth, water is simply the physical instrument because we are physical AND spiritual creatures. God created us that way.

That's interesting. I'm still trying to make the connection between the two. Could you take me through the process please.

Between which two? Baptism and rebirth or physical and spiritual?

 

[Radlad72]

Revelation 12:17 tells us about the mark of a saint (true Christian). They are those who keep the Commandments of God and the Testimony of Jesus Christ. The testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of prophecy which is mentioned in Revelation 19:10.

These are the saints, like it or not.

Rad.