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When did the Law pass or has it passed away?

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Are you serious? Where do you live? Are you over 18 years old?

I'm 51 just moved to a small town on the Eastern Shore of MD and don't have a list of everyones sins yet, but then again neither am I looking for one so I can throw rocks at them. I want to live in peace with my neighbors not as some hypocritical zealot. If someone has sinned in this land I live in then that I believe is between them and their Creator. They have their laws they live by and I have mine. They, not me, are responsible for their actions and they, not me, will answer for them.

As to the other comment you made that only one commandment is applicable. May I remind you what Yeshua himself said when the young man asked him what must he do that he might have eternal life?
 
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I'm 51 just moved to a small town on the Eastern Shore of MD and don't have a list of everyones sins yet, but then again Neither am I looking for one. I want to live in peace with my neighbors not as some hypocritical zealot. If someone has sinned in this land I live in then that I believe is between them and their Creator. They have their laws they live by and I have mine. They, not me, are responsible for their actions and they, not me, will answer for them.

As to the other comment you made that only one commandment is applicable. May I remind you what Yeshua himself said when the young man asked him what must he do that he might have eternal life?


I did not ask you if these people were in sin. I am shocked that someone your age lives in such isolation.

BTW, I am friends with many homosexuals and adulters. Can't say the same about witches.
 
Galatians 3:23-24

Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed.

So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith.
 
I did not ask you if these people were in sin. I am shocked that someone your age lives in such isolation.

BTW, I am friends with many homosexuals and adulters. Can't say the same about witches.


Isolation? I can assure you I don not live in isolation. I am well aware of the world around me, all I said was, that I do not personally know any homosexuals, witches or adulterers.

As for Galations 3:23-24 Im not sure if that was in response to my question concerning Yeshua's answer to the young man asking how to inherit eternal life. But never the less can you explain the Galations verse you quoted for me please.
 
Isolation? I can assure you I don not live in isolation. I am well aware of the world around me, all I said was, that I do not personally know any homosexuals, witches or adulterers.

As for Galations 3:23-24 Im not sure if that was in response to my question concerning Yeshua's answer to the young man asking how to inherit eternal life. But never the less can you explain the Galations verse you quoted for me please.

Lexicon entry: strong's G3807 - paidagogos Translated in the passage "gardian"

a tutor i.e. a guardian and guide of boys. Among the Greeks and the Romans the name was applied to trustworthy slaves who were charged with the duty of supervising the life and morals of boys belonging to the better class. The boys were not allowed so much as to step out of the house without them before arriving at the age of manhood.

Galatians 3:23-24

Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed.

So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith.
 
And if the old covenant has passed, then all of it had to fulfilled, at least according to Matthew 5:18.

Hi Mellontes and God's blessings to you Family! Christ has fullfilled the Law by His perfect obedience to it and also by answering to "the righteous requirement of the law" (Rom 8:4), which is death for disobedience (Gen 2:17; Ezek 18:4, 20). This is why it has been removed (Heb 10:9).

"For the law having a shadow of good things to come, [and] not the very image of the things . . ." (Heb 10:1). The law was not meant to place one in Christ but to just bring one to Him. Then He Himself would receive us through His redemptive work of atonement (Gal 3:24, 25).

There will be a New Covenant for the nation of Israel starting in the Millennium but it will not be anything from the old one (Jerm 31:31, 32; Ezek. 36:26,27; 37:14).
 
You're right, it's not a simple question. Especially when talking about a general "The Law" as opposed to one particular part of it. If none of it applies to us today, then why can't we freely break all 10 "commandments" (for example)? But if it all still applies, then we must adhere to things such as not being allowed to wear wool and linen at the same time and many, many other such restrictions and commands. Where would "grace" fit in?

None of the law has passed away...

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

That is assuming you believe that Christ kept the ninth Commandment. What about all of the law? There are portions of the law that we cannot keep today as they did then. There is no physical temple, yet we are to sacrifice...

1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

The Scripture does not prohibit a garment of wool and another garment of linen to be worn at the same time, it prohibits weaving wool and linen into one garment. Why? I have asked this and been told for one thing it produces a garment of inferior quality. I found this while looking around...

Therefore, we can never truly understand the entire reason for this Mitzvah, but we can understand some of the concepts within it, at some level. Maimonides, in his Guide to the Perplexed, points out that ancient pagan priests used to wear wool and linen processed together, because they knew how to make use of it for occult practices, including idol worship and other terrible things, and therefore the Torah forbade us to use it for all time, and ordered us to stay far away from shatnez, as well as all other practices of the pagans. - From a website entitled "Being Jewish" I am not Jewish so I have to go to them for clarification on certain things.

Many of those other restrictions are pretty good things, I certainly wish more people would practice the laws of quarantine during this flu season. Laws of cleanliness come to mind here...

Lev 15:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses and to Aaron, saying,
Lev 15:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When any man hath a running issue out of his flesh, because of his issue he is unclean.
Lev 15:3 And this shall be his uncleanness in his issue: whether his flesh run with his issue, or his flesh be stopped from his issue, it is his uncleanness.
Lev 15:4 Every bed, whereon he lieth that hath the issue, is unclean: and every thing, whereon he sitteth, shall be unclean.
Lev 15:5 And whosoever toucheth his bed shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even.
Lev 15:6 And he that sitteth on any thing whereon he sat that hath the issue shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even.
Lev 15:7 And he that toucheth the flesh of him that hath the issue shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even.
Lev 15:8 And if he that hath the issue spit upon him that is clean; then he shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even.
Lev 15:9 And what saddle soever he rideth upon that hath the issue shall be unclean.
Lev 15:10 And whosoever toucheth any thing that was under him shall be unclean until the even: and he that beareth any of those things shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even.
Lev 15:11 And whomsoever he toucheth that hath the issue, and hath not rinsed his hands in water, he shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even.
Lev 15:12 And the vessel of earth, that he toucheth which hath the issue, shall be broken: and every vessel of wood shall be rinsed in water.
Lev 15:13 And when he that hath an issue is cleansed of his issue; then he shall number to himself seven days for his cleansing, and wash his clothes, and bathe his flesh in running water, and shall be clean.

God instructs us not to wallow in filth.

What about grace? What is grace? Grace is the unearned, undeserved forgiveness for breaking God's law. A little example here...

A man commits a capital crime, he murders someone. He is found guilty and appears before the judge for sentencing. The judge says you are guilty and your are sentenced to death. A kindly man rises from the court room and says "I know this man is guilty and I know he deserves death. Let me die in his place so that he may live." This is exactly what happened to us, we are forgiven and someone else (Christ) died in our stead to pay for our sins. Now here is a question, does that do away with the law against murder? It does not change the law one bit, it changed the outcome for us because someone else took the penalty for us. Are we free to go out and murder again? Of course not...

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
 
That is indeed when it passed. We aren't under the law. We live under forgiveness.

I'll be around tonight to steal all your possessions because the eighth Commandment has passed away. Silly huh? Jesus plainly says that...

Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
 
Hi Mellontes and God's blessings to you Family! Christ has fullfilled the Law by His perfect obedience to it and also by answering to "the righteous requirement of the law" (Rom 8:4), which is death for disobedience (Gen 2:17; Ezek 18:4, 20). This is why it has been removed (Heb 10:9).

"For the law having a shadow of good things to come, [and] not the very image of the things . . ." (Heb 10:1). The law was not meant to place one in Christ but to just bring one to Him. Then He Himself would receive us through His redemptive work of atonement (Gal 3:24, 25).

There will be a New Covenant for the nation of Israel starting in the Millennium but it will not be anything from the old one (Jerm 31:31, 32; Ezek. 36:26,27; 37:14).

How about a date with your wife? The seventh Commandment has been removed. There is no law.
 
I agree with you about loving God and man being the only applicable law. I do believe reflecting on the OT laws show us the character of God and help us know how to love him and others.

What are the details of loving fellow man?

Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

This says that these Commandments and if there be any others they are summed up in love your neighbor as yourself. There is one great law, the law of love. There are two parts to the great law, love God and love your neighbor. There are four parts to love God, the first four commandments. There are six parts to loving your neighbor, the last six commandments. They are not done away.
 
There will be a New Covenant for the nation of Israel starting in the Millennium but it will not be anything from the old one (Jerm 31:31, 32; Ezek. 36:26,27; 37:14).

The New Covenant will be the writing of God's law in hearts and minds...

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Notice where the fault was? Not with the law, but with the people.

Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

God lamented the fact that the people could not obey Him because they did not have the heart to...

Deu 5:29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

They did not have the Holy Spirit and could not obey...

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

A fleshly (carnal) mind is not subject to the law of God.
 
Jesus fulfilled every jot and tittle of the law for us.
Col 2:13b-14 NKJV And you, being dead in your tresspasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was agaìnst us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
 
Jesus fulfilled every jot and tittle of the law for us.
Col 2:13b-14 NKJV And you, being dead in your tresspasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was agaìnst us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

Hi Carolyn - That's the best Scripture support on this issue I've seen yet which depicts there is no Covenant between man and God at this time. Even the final Covenant which is in Christ's blood isn't between God and man but between the Father and Son - we are just recipients of its benefits.

Only the nation Israel will have a Covenant with God, which will involve a lesser eternal blessing than the Christians because they will not believe until they see Him; "Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed [are] they that have not seen, and [yet] have believed" (John 20:29). To disbelieve Christ's resurrection is to deny Him, for believing He rose from the dead is one of faith's requirements for salvation.

"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved" (Rom 10:9).

Are Christians Under Any "New Covenant"? http://www.withchrist.org/MJS/twonew.htm
 
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Jesus fulfilled every jot and tittle of the law for us.
Col 2:13b-14 NKJV And you, being dead in your tresspasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was agaìnst us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

Amen wonderful scripture!
 
Amen wonderful scripture!

Woohoo! Amen praise the lord.


But how do you reconcile that against the very words Jesus himself spoke in the very books you hold so dear? This will probably be my last post here because of its accusatory nature. But some of you deserve to be accused and called out.

I find it appalling Christians have been anxious to abolish the law of Moses on their own accord and responsibility, for they have no authority whatever for doing so from Jesus and the Apostles. If Jesus had really absolved them from the commandments contained in our Bible, why then did he urge the observance of a part of them? For instance, the honor due to parents, neighborly love and charity? Why then did he warn them against homicide, adultery, theft, and false testimony? (See Matthew 19) On what foundation rests the Apostle’s prohibition to abstain from idolatry, incest, and eating of blood and strangled animals? (See Acts 15:20.)

Nor can I any longer comprehend the assertion that the law of Moses must discontinue because the Israelites had been guilty of death according to it, but not according to the law of Jesus, which was called the law of Grace. Did not Paul order the death of one marrying his father’s wife? (See 1 Corinthians 5:1).

Equally untrue is it that the law of Jesus is more easy to practice than that of Moses. In Matthew 19:21, we find, "If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor." The same is repeated in Luke 18:22. This shows that it is required by the laws of Jesus, that man shall dispose of his property and devote it to charitable purposes.

The law of Moses however, decrees that only the tenth part of the harvest shall go for charitable purposes, and the remainder be enjoyed by the owner. This proves that the legislative system of Moses is by no means oppressive; but on the contrary, serves to benefit both the body and the soul.

Again, if men have been dispensed from obedience to the laws of Moses, why do they acknowledge some of the laws on consanguinity, and prohibit intercourse between the following six degrees of affinity, namely, with the mother, the father’s wife, the sister, the brother’s wife, the daughter, and the son’s wife? With regard to other relations they are not guided by the Divine enactments transmitted to us through Moses; but occasionally they permit the unlawful, and forbid the legitimate degrees of intermarriage.

Christians seem here to abandon the solid foundation on which we rest our hopes, and act from self-formed opinions. The Gospel presents no express code on the points in question, and if these laws are no longer valid which determine the relationship of consanguinity, why did not Jesus introduce new regulations in lieu of the laws of Moses? In modern days the Christians are partly guided by the Mosaic code, and partly by human enactments at various periods. They make changes and alterations, accommodating them to the customs of the day, and render established principles subservient to temporary wants and arbitrary innovations.

Convinced that the divine revelation proceeds from Infinite Wisdom, and is, therefore, in itself complete and perfect in its aim, I cannot possibly admit of any change, deviation, addition, or diminution. Holy Writ warns us on this point. Deuteronomy 4:2, "Every word which I command you ye shall observe and do. Thou shalt not add unto it, and not diminish therefrom." Further (Deuteronomy 4:8), "Where is a nation so great which has such just and righteous statutes as all this law which I place before you this day?", "If thou wilt obey the voice of the Yehovah thy God to observe His commandments and His statutes which are written in this book of this law," etc. In the same book (Deuteronomy 33:4) we read, "The law that Moses commanded unto us is an inheritance of the congregation of Jacob." To this we add the words of the Psalmist (Psalm 19:8-10 [19:7-9]), "The law of the Lord is perfect, restoring the soul; the testimony of the Lord is faithful, making wise the foolish; the statutes of the Lord are just, rejoicing the heart; the commandments of the Lord are pure, enlightening the eyes; the fear of the Lord is clean, standing forever; the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether."

In the same book (Psalm 119:44) he says, "And I will keep thy commandments for ever and ever." We refer also to the conclusion of the prophecy by Malachi, who says, "Remember ye the law of my servant Moses which I commanded him in Horeb, concerning all Israel (giving them), statutes and judgments." These verses give satisfactory evidence, that the divine law in its sublime perfection and simplicity is not to be enlarged or curtailed, and much less to be abrogated and superseded by any other code.

The immutability of the law is pronounced in Deuteronomy 28:1, "And thou shalt listen to the voice of Yehovah, and do all His commandments which I command thee this day." The same is repeated in a subsequent passage, it being said, "If thou wilt but listen to the voice of Yehovah thy God to observe His commandments which are written in the book of this law."

This manifestly proves that the gracious promises and assurances will only be realized provided we rigidly follow the precepts prescribed in the books of Moses. The expression, "this day," points out the impossibility of a subsequent legislation, and the unchangeableness of the revealed Will of the Almighty.

In a like manner, we learn from the passage, "The law which Moses commanded us," is an inheritance of the congregation of Jacob; that, contrary to the Christian belief, no period whatever has been assigned to limit the duration of the Mosaic code.

The law of Moses is to remain an everlasting inheritance to the congregation of Jacob forever. "For it shall not be forgotten out of the mouth of his seed." The term, "congregation of Jacob," (instead of house or seed of Jacob), shows that the law is not merely an inheritance to the children of Jacob but to all who may congregate with them, "from the sons of the stranger, who join themselves to the Lord to serve Him, and to love the name of the Lord, and to be His servants. Every one that keepeth the Sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant." "They shall," as Isaiah says (Isaiah 14:1), "be joined with them, and be included in the house of Jacob."

The expression, "All His commandments are sure, they stand fast for ever and ever," is no less an evidence of the eternity of the laws contained in the Pentateuch, as לָעַד ("for ever"), and לְעוֹלָם ("eternally), imply an uninterrupted and endless course of time. We meet with an unmistakable use of the two words in the Psalm 148:6, "And He has established them for ever and ever, He has given an ordinance and it shall not be infringed." The passage, "And I will keep Thy commandments continually for ever and ever," alludes to a period unlimited by time. In accordance with this, we find in Exodus 15:18, the words יהוה יִמְלֹךְ לְעֹלָם וָעֶד "The Lord shall rule for ever and ever." So likewise in the exhortation of the last of the prophets (Malachi 3:22 [4:4]), "Remember ye the law of Moses, which I commanded unto him on Horeb, concerning all Israel (giving him statutes and judgments)," we discover that there will never be any other law besides the law given unto Moses on Mount Sinai. We likewise meet with the Gentile authorities, who state that the law of God given to Israel is eternal and perfect – that no succeeding law has ever been given – that those are mistaken who assert that Moses gave the first and Jesus the second law – and that Jesus gave no new law, but merely confirmed the commandments given through Moses.

Start readin scripture! The one that contains the very words of your Creator. Put aside the thoughts and imaginations written in the Christian midrash or regurigating what those so called masters of divinty feed you.
 
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Woohoo! Amen praise the lord.


But how do you reconcile that against the very words Jesus himself spoke in the very books you hold so dear? This will probably be my last post here because of its accusatory nature. But some of you deserve to be accused and called out.

I find it appalling Christians have been anxious to abolish the law of Moses on their own accord and responsibility, for they have no authority whatever for doing so from Jesus and the Apostles. If Jesus had really absolved them from the commandments contained in our Bible, why then did he urge the observance of a part of them? For instance, the honor due to parents, neighborly love and charity? Why then did he warn them against homicide, adultery, theft, and false testimony? (See Matthew 19) On what foundation rests the Apostle’s prohibition to abstain from idolatry, incest, and eating of blood and strangled animals? (See Acts 15:20.)

Nor can I any longer comprehend the assertion that the law of Moses must discontinue because the Israelites had been guilty of death according to it, but not according to the law of Jesus, which was called the law of Grace. Did not Paul order the death of one marrying his father’s wife? (See 1 Corinthians 5:1).

Equally untrue is it that the law of Jesus is more easy to practice than that of Moses. In Matthew 19:21, we find, "If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor." The same is repeated in Luke 18:22. This shows that it is required by the laws of Jesus, that man shall dispose of his property and devote it to charitable purposes.

The law of Moses however, decrees that only the tenth part of the harvest shall go for charitable purposes, and the remainder be enjoyed by the owner. This proves that the legislative system of Moses is by no means oppressive; but on the contrary, serves to benefit both the body and the soul.

Again, if men have been dispensed from obedience to the laws of Moses, why do they acknowledge some of the laws on consanguinity, and prohibit intercourse between the following six degrees of affinity, namely, with the mother, the father’s wife, the sister, the brother’s wife, the daughter, and the son’s wife? With regard to other relations they are not guided by the Divine enactments transmitted to us through Moses; but occasionally they permit the unlawful, and forbid the legitimate degrees of intermarriage.

Christians seem here to abandon the solid foundation on which we rest our hopes, and act from self-formed opinions. The Gospel presents no express code on the points in question, and if these laws are no longer valid which determine the relationship of consanguinity, why did not Jesus introduce new regulations in lieu of the laws of Moses? In modern days the Christians are partly guided by the Mosaic code, and partly by human enactments at various periods. They make changes and alterations, accommodating them to the customs of the day, and render established principles subservient to temporary wants and arbitrary innovations.

Convinced that the divine revelation proceeds from Infinite Wisdom, and is, therefore, in itself complete and perfect in its aim, I cannot possibly admit of any change, deviation, addition, or diminution. Holy Writ warns us on this point. Deuteronomy 4:2, "Every word which I command you ye shall observe and do. Thou shalt not add unto it, and not diminish therefrom." Further (Deuteronomy 4:8), "Where is a nation so great which has such just and righteous statutes as all this law which I place before you this day?", "If thou wilt obey the voice of the Yehovah thy God to observe His commandments and His statutes which are written in this book of this law," etc. In the same book (Deuteronomy 33:4) we read, "The law that Moses commanded unto us is an inheritance of the congregation of Jacob." To this we add the words of the Psalmist (Psalm 19:8-10 [19:7-9]), "The law of the Lord is perfect, restoring the soul; the testimony of the Lord is faithful, making wise the foolish; the statutes of the Lord are just, rejoicing the heart; the commandments of the Lord are pure, enlightening the eyes; the fear of the Lord is clean, standing forever; the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether."

In the same book (Psalm 119:44) he says, "And I will keep thy commandments for ever and ever." We refer also to the conclusion of the prophecy by Malachi, who says, "Remember ye the law of my servant Moses which I commanded him in Horeb, concerning all Israel (giving them), statutes and judgments." These verses give satisfactory evidence, that the divine law in its sublime perfection and simplicity is not to be enlarged or curtailed, and much less to be abrogated and superseded by any other code.

The immutability of the law is pronounced in Deuteronomy 28:1, "And thou shalt listen to the voice of Yehovah, and do all His commandments which I command thee this day." The same is repeated in a subsequent passage, it being said, "If thou wilt but listen to the voice of Yehovah thy God to observe His commandments which are written in the book of this law."

This manifestly proves that the gracious promises and assurances will only be realized provided we rigidly follow the precepts prescribed in the books of Moses. The expression, "this day," points out the impossibility of a subsequent legislation, and the unchangeableness of the revealed Will of the Almighty.

In a like manner, we learn from the passage, "The law which Moses commanded us," is an inheritance of the congregation of Jacob; that, contrary to the Christian belief, no period whatever has been assigned to limit the duration of the Mosaic code.

The law of Moses is to remain an everlasting inheritance to the congregation of Jacob forever. "For it shall not be forgotten out of the mouth of his seed." The term, "congregation of Jacob," (instead of house or seed of Jacob), shows that the law is not merely an inheritance to the children of Jacob but to all who may congregate with them, "from the sons of the stranger, who join themselves to the Lord to serve Him, and to love the name of the Lord, and to be His servants. Every one that keepeth the Sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant." "They shall," as Isaiah says (Isaiah 14:1), "be joined with them, and be included in the house of Jacob."

The expression, "All His commandments are sure, they stand fast for ever and ever," is no less an evidence of the eternity of the laws contained in the Pentateuch, as לָעַד ("for ever"), and לְעוֹלָם ("eternally), imply an uninterrupted and endless course of time. We meet with an unmistakable use of the two words in the Psalm 148:6, "And He has established them for ever and ever, He has given an ordinance and it shall not be infringed." The passage, "And I will keep Thy commandments continually for ever and ever," alludes to a period unlimited by time. In accordance with this, we find in Exodus 15:18, the words יהוה יִמְלֹךְ לְעֹלָם וָעֶד "The Lord shall rule for ever and ever." So likewise in the exhortation of the last of the prophets (Malachi 3:22 [4:4]), "Remember ye the law of Moses, which I commanded unto him on Horeb, concerning all Israel (giving him statutes and judgments)," we discover that there will never be any other law besides the law given unto Moses on Mount Sinai. We likewise meet with the Gentile authorities, who state that the law of God given to Israel is eternal and perfect – that no succeeding law has ever been given – that those are mistaken who assert that Moses gave the first and Jesus the second law – and that Jesus gave no new law, but merely confirmed the commandments given through Moses.

Start readin scripture! The one that contains the very words of your Creator. Put aside the thoughts and imaginations written in the Christian midrash or regurigating what those so called masters of divinty feed you.

First you have misquoted scripture , NO Paul did not order the death of anyone, you need to get saved first then maybe you will have a better understanding of what the Bible and we are saying.
There are many good people on this sight who could help you with that, may I suggest you discuss this privately with netchaplin. Of coarse I am getting my info from your's, you say you are not a Christian.
 
But how do you reconcile that against the very words Jesus himself spoke in the very books you hold so dear? This will probably be my last post here because of its accusatory nature. But some of you deserve to be accused and called out.

I find it appalling Christians have been anxious to abolish the law of Moses on their own accord and responsibility, for they have no authority whatever for doing so from Jesus and the Apostles.
Don't leave before I can talk to you. This is one of my favorite subjects.

The book of Hebrews speaks of the first covenant being 'laid aside'. This does not mean abolished as we tend to understand that. It means 'no longer needed'. I can explain if you're interested.

To not have to obey various first covenant laws for worship is entirely different than saying the law governing first covenant worship is abolished. The necessity for the law was abolished, not the law itself. It gets fulfilled when we believe in Christ and walk by the Spirit. I'm anxious to explain.
 
Have you killed any homosexuals, witches, or stoned an adulteress?
Let's begin with the adulteress;
There was a woman caught in adultery (not suspected, but *caught*), she was brought "into" the temple proper; "precincts=porches".
And I will hold the point solidly -- that we are not talking outside in the sand, as many think; and Jesus was not writing on dirt -- but it says merely the floor, or ground (It specifically does *not* say earth). Considering the temple is made of rock -- he is doing something very peculiar -- he is writing on the stone with a solitary finger;

Decreeing with a single finger, or a little finger -- is a very Jewish king thing to do; although a king hasn't the power to do it on a Rock; However, we do have a single witnessed event -- where God wrote the 10 commandments in front of Moses ; and it is said "the finger of God".

Now; They brought her before Jesus -- who obey's the law, lest he himself sin -- and they ask him the question about whether to stone her or not.

We are now into the "tittles or Jot's" of the Law...

The woman could have been anyone -- it could have been Herodias, her daughter, ... anyone.... and likely aligned with those who wanted Jesus dead; for after her captors all leave, and she is alone -- she continues to stand there, as if saying "you're without sin? (Ha, throw the stone...Guards will come...don't throw the stone, you're not without sin.)"; and yet he obeyed the law, and did not stone her for that would violate the law.

and Jesus ends up saying (paraphrase): "Does no one accuse you?"; and she says "no one".
Therefore, he says "then neither do I accuse you." -- and at that point, she is forced to leave. (sin no more, he says).

On the word of two witnesses a woman is put to death ; not one less.
Also note -- for it to be adultery, in Jesus' estimation -- God would have had to join the marriage -- and note: not all marriages are legal.

And furthermore, the law nowhere says one must seek out the adulteresses to destroy them.

Consider: Is not Jesus Christ himself, from a family where the whore -- by the name of Rahab the Harlot, is his mother ? (great-xx grandmother, but mother in scriptural parlance); was not Rahab immediately found a whore after the Law of Moses was first ratified at Sainai? (spared death on account of something which technically freed her?)

Or what of King David, and Bathsheba?

Homosexuals, and I mean practicing; not men who have the desire -- but live with other men they love, in abstinence. (Which is true love, for the forbearance is a good thing, and medication can help.); What law, specifically do you quote that has them executed?

Or again, on witches -- it says "do not suffer them to live among you"; (not all English versions say this, I realize -- but I have always understood that to be the full translation) ; However, to not live among you -- can be accomplished without putting to death; She need only be thrown out of Israel proper. On the other hand, if the crime of the witch is the passing of children through fire; she is a murderer, and capital punishment is not ruled out.

But even if I take your points, the Law Moses proclaimed is "Hear O' Israel", not "Hear oh U.S.of A." nor hear O Babylonians, Egyptians, and the like. For never do we hear of the Israelites leaving the promised land in order to invade Egypt for adoring (latria) false Gods.

Those law's enforcement were within a geographical borderland ; a Nation (Israel) and whatever territory they claimed.
The Law prior to Moses, is a different matter; and so are the Laws laid down by Jesus for his own followers.

Law has jurisdiction, and technicalities.
 
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Don't leave before I can talk to you. This is one of my favorite subjects.
He ran...

The book of Hebrews speaks of the first covenant being 'laid aside'. This does not mean abolished as we tend to understand that. It means 'no longer needed'. I can explain if you're interested.
I'd love to hear the exegesis, Jethro, if you are still interested in talking.... :)
 
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He ran...
Yes, apparently he did.


I'd love to hear the exegesis, Jethro, if you are still interested in talking.... :)
I am still interested.


"I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”

13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete...

(Hebrews 8:12-13 NIV)


The last part of verse 12, which I've quoted above, is the exclusive privilege of the New Covenant, not the old covenant. The old covenant of temple, priest, and sacrifice could only deal with certain sin, and for a limited time. Thus the ongoing requirement to relate to God through that covenant of temple, priest, and sacrifice. But for those who have all their sin guilt forever and perfectly forgiven, one time for all time, through the New Way--the New Covenant of faith in Jesus Christ and it's Temple, Priest, and Sacrifice--the necessity and requirement to deal with a sin guilt (that we no longer have) through the first temple, priesthood, and sacrifice disappears. The law governing that system is not abolished, as we understand abolished. The need for that system was abolished.

So, it's not that the laws governing how to construct and operate the literal temple have been abolished. It's just that we have a new and better system of Temple, Priest, and Sacrifice (this New Covenant) to relate to God through that makes the old system of temple, priest, and sacrifice simply not needed anymore. It isn't needed for a people forever and perfectly brought near to God through the new and better way of faith in Jesus Christ. That is how, and why the old way has become obsolete. And because it is obsolete, it has been laid aside in favor of the New.

It's important to see that when the author of Hebrews says 'old' he means the old covenant of temple, Levitical priesthood, and animal sacrifice and the laws that govern those things and the worship associated with them. The remaining law, 'do not covet', 'do not bear false witness', etc. remains and is upheld through the New Covenant of Temple, Priest, and Sacrifice, in the New Way of the Spirit.
 
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