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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Who are the "Vessels of Destruction"?
- Thread starter Drew
- Start date
smaller
Member
You can cite any scripture you please. I will disagree with none of them.
IF however you CAN'T see devils as a separate entity than the MEN they inhabited I don't expect you to understand the very texts you are citing to make Gods children into DEVILS.
We have an entire entity class of DEVILS to view that ARE NOT MANKIND. But you may have missed (those many hundreds) of New Testament examples that show these matters.
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savedbygrace57
Guest
smaller:
But you have.
But you have.
smaller
Member
Yeah, we sure don't want to see the sin that we all have connected to the devil do we?
1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil;
It's always easier to blame the other people and ignore the 'cause.'
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savedbygrace57
Guest
smaller:
Not Gods children, all the sin of theirs has been placed upon Christ and He died for them.
Its the devils children that have no hope.
Not Gods children, all the sin of theirs has been placed upon Christ and He died for them.
Its the devils children that have no hope.
smaller
Member
We've already done this drill and you don't seem to be able to see that the scriptures teach ALL OF ISRAEL to be Gods children and you have not shown where that was taken away from them.
IF THE DEVIL happens to be upon them blinding them, that does not make them any less of the children of God.
And to that I do not disagree. I just have no compulsion to make mankind the same as those entities, nor do I believe Jesus saw people and devils as the same entities. Satan entered into APOSTLES as well. That did not make PETER or JUDAS or PAUL the same as the various forms of SATAN or DEVIL that was upon them either.
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savedbygrace57
Guest
smaller:
You have not learned anything, God did not place the sins of the devils children nor the devil onto Christ.
He placed the sins of His Children on to Christ His Son .
Jn 11:
51And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
52And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
Christ did not died for the children of the devil, but for the children of God who had been taken captive by the devil.
You have not learned anything, God did not place the sins of the devils children nor the devil onto Christ.
He placed the sins of His Children on to Christ His Son .
Jn 11:
51And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
52And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
Christ did not died for the children of the devil, but for the children of God who had been taken captive by the devil.
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savedbygrace57
Guest
smaller:
No they dont, Jesus said to some men of Israel these words:
Jn 8:
42Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me:
No they dont, Jesus said to some men of Israel these words:
Jn 8:
42Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me:
smaller
Member
OR there is the remote possibility that Jesus was actually telling the truth and speaking to exactly whom He was speaking to:
CHILDREN OF THE DEVIL in those same men. That is where you have a hard time seeing. You see ONLY MEN. Jesus gave 'some men' a better ability to read and understand the language.
Where you see SATAN speaking through PETER you perhaps only see PETER.
I see SATAN and PETER.
Imagine that? Isn't that just amazing reading skills? Wow.
He said, "A certain man had two sons.
The younger of them said to his father, 'Father, give me my share of your property.'
He divided his livelihood between them.
Not many days after, the younger son gathered all of this together and traveled into a far country. There he wasted his property with riotous living. When he had spent all of it, there arose a severe famine in that country, and he began to be in need. He went and joined himself to one of the citizens of that country, and he sent him into his fields to feed pigs. He wanted to fill his belly with the husks that the pigs ate, but no one gave him any.
But when he came to himself he said, 'How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough to spare, and I'm dying with hunger! I will get up and go to my father, and will tell him, "Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in your sight. I am no more worthy to be called your son. Make me as one of your hired servants."'
"He arose, and came to his father. But while he was still far off, his father saw him, and was moved with compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
The son said to him, 'Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in your sight. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.'
"But the father said to his servants, 'Bring out the best robe, and put it on him. Put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet. Bring the fattened calf, kill it, and let us eat, and celebrate; for this, my son, was dead, and is alive again. He was lost, and is found.' They began to celebrate.
[Luke 15:11-24 HNV]
He was dead and is alive again.
Had he died in his sins without repentance? That son would have been found among those who can be termed "vessels of destruction," and would have perished with all unbelievers. It is by faith, through grace and there is no difference found in bloodlines. God is just and is no respecter of persons.
The younger of them said to his father, 'Father, give me my share of your property.'
He divided his livelihood between them.
Not many days after, the younger son gathered all of this together and traveled into a far country. There he wasted his property with riotous living. When he had spent all of it, there arose a severe famine in that country, and he began to be in need. He went and joined himself to one of the citizens of that country, and he sent him into his fields to feed pigs. He wanted to fill his belly with the husks that the pigs ate, but no one gave him any.
But when he came to himself he said, 'How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough to spare, and I'm dying with hunger! I will get up and go to my father, and will tell him, "Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in your sight. I am no more worthy to be called your son. Make me as one of your hired servants."'
"He arose, and came to his father. But while he was still far off, his father saw him, and was moved with compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
The son said to him, 'Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in your sight. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.'
"But the father said to his servants, 'Bring out the best robe, and put it on him. Put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet. Bring the fattened calf, kill it, and let us eat, and celebrate; for this, my son, was dead, and is alive again. He was lost, and is found.' They began to celebrate.
[Luke 15:11-24 HNV]
He was dead and is alive again.
Had he died in his sins without repentance? That son would have been found among those who can be termed "vessels of destruction," and would have perished with all unbelievers. It is by faith, through grace and there is no difference found in bloodlines. God is just and is no respecter of persons.
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savedbygrace57
Guest
Its plain, Jesus did not consider all jews Gods Children, what can be more plainer than this ?
Jn 8:
42Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
In fact, if anyone [jew or gentile] is not Loving Jesus Christ, there is not evidence of being a child of God, or God being your Father.
Then secondly, paul tells the deluded jews that just because you are children of Abraham [ by the flesh] that does not make you the children of God !
Rom 9:
8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
smaller
Member
Very OBVIOUSLY you and I see that matter differently. YOU are apparently NOT ALLOWED by God to see DEVILS in and with THE CHILDREN OF GOD. Jesus did not see in your fashions. Sorry. God TAUGHT THEM that they are ALL GODS CHILDREN in the O.T.
God in Christ ALSO SHOWED us all very clearly and openly that it is NOT JUST MAN there IN MAN. Devils were REPEATEDLY SHOWN to be WITH, IN AND UPON the CHILDREN OF ISRAEL.
You are openly and apparently BLINDED to these scriptural FACTS and I understand WHY you are blinded to these facts. I don't BLAME YOU for being thusly BLINDED to plain open statements about DEVILS in MANKIND. There is YOU as a child of God and there is with YOU and I no different than it was for Paul...we ALL have 'evil present' with us.
Some are led to SEE this fact. Most are not allowed by that same working to be HONEST about the fact to themselves and they then FALSELY SEE other people as well. I can NOT help you in this matter of FACT. The leading you away from that evil only God can do.
Were mankind ALONE in these matters you'd have a point, but that is openly PROVABLY not the case. ALL the claimed LOVE OF GOD in the whole world does not make the EVIL PRESENT with man telling the TRUTH about LOVING GOD.
When a person can not even be honest within themselves, I don't expect them to be honest in their views of their fellow man.
IF you concede that Paul himself had both A DEVIL and EVIL PRESENT you will see PAUL CONFESSING HONESTLY about the vessels. Paul was NOT the same as the VESSEL OF DISHONOR, yet he CLEARLY CONFESSED that he had A VESSEL OF DISHONOUR UPON HIS OWN FLESH, and that's all there is to this matter.
God can raise EITHER vessel in ANY man because BOTH VESSELS are IN MAN.
God raises a VESSEL OF HONOR to SPEAK THE TRUTH of these matters.
enjoy!
smaller
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
smaller:
Yes, its obvious to me that you ignore scripture that I put in your plain view !
Jn 8:
42Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Rom 9:
8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Yes, its obvious to me that you ignore scripture that I put in your plain view !
Jn 8:
42Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Rom 9:
8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
smaller
Member
The only obvious thing is that you have been intentionally blocked from reading the english language.
Can you respond to specific critique and understand a plain concept such as DEVILS in MAN are NOT the same entities? How many times do you think I might make the observation before you get it or even ACKNOWLEDGE what is being stated?
