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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Why God forsake Jesus?
- Thread starter My Dreams
- Start date
journeyman
Member
God never forsook His Son. Evil religious leaders wrongly thought He did,
the chief priests mocking him, with the scribes and elders, said He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God. Mt.27:41,43
He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him. Psa.22:8 KJV
So the point is that God
hath not despised nor abhorred the afflictionof the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard. Psa.22:24 KJV
I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread. Psa.37:25
the chief priests mocking him, with the scribes and elders, said He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God. Mt.27:41,43
He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him. Psa.22:8 KJV
So the point is that God
hath not despised nor abhorred the afflictionof the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard. Psa.22:24 KJV
I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread. Psa.37:25
The way I have understood it is that Jesus was the perfect sacrificial Lamb of God (ref. John 1:29 and again John 1:36). In Exodus, chapter 12, we read of the Passover when the Hebrews sacrificed unblemished male lambs and spread the blood around the doorposts of their homes. When the Lord executed judgement in Egypt destroying the first born and encountered the blood He passed over that home. Jesus' blood covers believers in the same way and that is how we can be saved through belief and trust in Jesus. Being the sacrificial Lamb, God made Him to be sin for the sake of all who believe (2 Corinthians 5:21) and for that moment Jesus felt the sting of our sin upon Himself as God turned away from Him.
What's hard for us to wrap our brains around is that we are sinful and we have not experienced the joy of a fully righteous relationship with God, whereas, Jesus did and when God turned away, even if it was for just a moment, Jesus experienced what it was like to be without God.
That is how I understand it.
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journeyman
Member
Hello My Dreams.
Our Lord Jesus is showing us how He was mocked by religious people who thought they knew God. They accused God Himself of blasphemy because they didn't know Him.
Hebrew 2 tells us our Savior understands how we feel when we're under duress and being tempted, because He experienced it.
Please understand that Jesus did this so we would understand that God knows how struggle. Read the whole Psalm He quoted from the cross. Jesus knows all things.
Hey All,
David's prayer:
Psalms 22:1-3 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
O my God, I cry in the daytime, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.
But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.
Jesus' cry:
Matthew 27:45-46 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.
And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Do you see an interesting point?
Jesus said He was the light of the world.
John 9:5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.
It was dark for three hours; too long for an eclipse. The light of the world had dimmed due to the sin of the world He was baring. The time of forsakenness matches the time of darkness.
You want another interesting point?
Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
We see the Father/Son relationship restored before Jesus died. The price of our sin had been paid in full before He "gave us the ghost."
Now the really big question:
Did Jesus experience forgiveness from the Father?
Or did Jesus forgive Himself?
Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz
P
[My god, my god, why have you forsaken me?]
I think the basic idea goes back to Genesis, and the idea of death as being cut-off: Adam died the day they sinned. Jesus, in becoming a “sin-offering”, “becoming cursed on our behalf” (CJB: 2 Cor.5:21; Gal.3:13), took our cut-offness before he died physically. He identified with us so that we could identify with him.
The psalmist was cut-off, abandoned, for different reason, and so was cut-off in a different way, but Jesus could take his example as a righteous sufferer who would be reunited with God. Jesus articulated it for his spiritual suffering to go on record: we should not concentrate on his physical suffering, nor indeed on our own.
I think the basic idea goes back to Genesis, and the idea of death as being cut-off: Adam died the day they sinned. Jesus, in becoming a “sin-offering”, “becoming cursed on our behalf” (CJB: 2 Cor.5:21; Gal.3:13), took our cut-offness before he died physically. He identified with us so that we could identify with him.
The psalmist was cut-off, abandoned, for different reason, and so was cut-off in a different way, but Jesus could take his example as a righteous sufferer who would be reunited with God. Jesus articulated it for his spiritual suffering to go on record: we should not concentrate on his physical suffering, nor indeed on our own.
Jesus was well aware that he would have to “go to Jerusalem and suffer many things …, and be killed, and on the third day be raised up.” (Matthew 16:21) In heaven, he had observed imperfect humans experience torturous deaths while maintaining their integrity. (Hebrews 11:36-38) So there just is no reason to believe that Jesus-a perfect human-would be seized with fear over what he faced; nor would death on a stake suggest to him that his Father had rejected him. Jesus knew in advance “what sort of death he was about to die.”-John 12:32, 33.
Therefore, Jesus certainly realized that his Father had taken away His Holy Spirit in order that he would be tested to the limit. This did not mean that God totally abandoned Jesus to Satan. Jehovah continued to show affection for Jesus, as proven on the third day when He raised him from the grave.-Acts 2:31-36; 10:40; 17:31.
Hi My Dreams
God did not forsake Jesus. The Father, who was 'well pleased' with His Son and all that he had accomplished in coming to give us the true testimony of the Father and then to willingly offer the sacrifice of his life for ours, was never forsaken by his Father.
Consider this, please.
When Jesus began his ministry in Israel, the first account we have is of him going into a synagogue in Nazareth and reading from the scroll of Isiaih. He read from that scroll what we know as Isaiah 61 which is one of the two greatest prophecies that tell us 'how' Jesus was going to live. That he would preach and teach and heal and comfort and free the prisoners. He then turned to those in attendance at the synagogue and said to them, "Today this is fulfilled in your hearing." Then he went out and for 3 and a half years lived what he had read.
Over a thousand years before this time, the Holy Spirit had prompted David to write a great and mysterious psalm about someone suffering in agony at their death. That psalm began, "My God, my God. Why have you forsaken me." Then David wrote a rather compelling picture of the agony of the Messiah's death. What Jesus was doing was being the rabbi that he had told everyone that he was. He was speaking a remez. It was a common practice in Israel in that day.
You see, they didn't have the luxury of the chapter number and verses that we have. Your pastor can get up every Sunday and say something like, "Open your bibles to Jeremiah chapter 10 verse 11." But not so in ancient Israel. When a rabbi wanted his congregation to know 'where' he was going to be teaching from, he would call out the first few words of that particular passage..
So, Jesus opened his ministry proclaiming the greatest prophecy that old us how he would live and the things he would be doing. Then he closed his ministry pointing the Jewish leaders to the place that also told them exactly what they were standing there looking at. David's words written 1,000 years before that went point by point over the events of his death. Even to the point that he told them how they would cast lots for his clothes. How some of the leaders, who had just said those exact words, were going to say, "He says he's from God, let God help him."
It's a remez and it was a common teaching method in ancient Israel.
God bless,
Ted
God did not forsake Jesus. The Father, who was 'well pleased' with His Son and all that he had accomplished in coming to give us the true testimony of the Father and then to willingly offer the sacrifice of his life for ours, was never forsaken by his Father.
Consider this, please.
When Jesus began his ministry in Israel, the first account we have is of him going into a synagogue in Nazareth and reading from the scroll of Isiaih. He read from that scroll what we know as Isaiah 61 which is one of the two greatest prophecies that tell us 'how' Jesus was going to live. That he would preach and teach and heal and comfort and free the prisoners. He then turned to those in attendance at the synagogue and said to them, "Today this is fulfilled in your hearing." Then he went out and for 3 and a half years lived what he had read.
Over a thousand years before this time, the Holy Spirit had prompted David to write a great and mysterious psalm about someone suffering in agony at their death. That psalm began, "My God, my God. Why have you forsaken me." Then David wrote a rather compelling picture of the agony of the Messiah's death. What Jesus was doing was being the rabbi that he had told everyone that he was. He was speaking a remez. It was a common practice in Israel in that day.
You see, they didn't have the luxury of the chapter number and verses that we have. Your pastor can get up every Sunday and say something like, "Open your bibles to Jeremiah chapter 10 verse 11." But not so in ancient Israel. When a rabbi wanted his congregation to know 'where' he was going to be teaching from, he would call out the first few words of that particular passage..
So, Jesus opened his ministry proclaiming the greatest prophecy that old us how he would live and the things he would be doing. Then he closed his ministry pointing the Jewish leaders to the place that also told them exactly what they were standing there looking at. David's words written 1,000 years before that went point by point over the events of his death. Even to the point that he told them how they would cast lots for his clothes. How some of the leaders, who had just said those exact words, were going to say, "He says he's from God, let God help him."
It's a remez and it was a common teaching method in ancient Israel.
God bless,
Ted
I will never agree that God ever took His Spirit or love from Jesus. I would state God was with/in Him on that cross. They are one. God reconciled us through Jesus's blood shed on the cross. Jesus informed John and James they would indeed drink from the cup He drank. Do you think He took His love from them? So I surmise John didn't die from old age. Going to the cross was the Fathers will and Jesus always does what pleases the Father and remains in His love.
Habakkuk 1:13 Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity: wherefore lookest thou upon them that deal treacherously, and holdest thy tongue when the wicked devoureth the man that is more righteous than he?
Genesis 6:5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Both these verses above shows that God did not forsake Christ while He hung on the cross, but that it grieved him at His heart that the world became so sinful that He had to give His only begotten Son to be the final blood sacrifice that through Him and those who come to Him can have eternal life with the Father, John 3:16. This was God's divine plan in the beginning, even before the foundation of the world.
Psalm 22:1 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
Psalm 22:24 For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.
Matthew 27:45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour. 46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
God never forsook Jesus as deity can not be separated. Comparing the above verses in Psalms and Matthew Jesus was declaring to His accusers as He hung on the cross that they were in the midst of fulfilling Psalms 22. The psalmist himself understood that the forsaking of God was not abandonment, but a lifting of His Sovereign protection according to His divine plan so the threats of His enemies could be carried out in prophecy. There were many times during Jesus ministry that the enemy wanted to kill Him, but they couldn't as His time had not yet come from above, John 7:30
2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 Peter 1:19 Jesus, a lamb without spot or blemish. God made Jesus to be sin for us who knew no sin that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him.
Genesis 6:5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Both these verses above shows that God did not forsake Christ while He hung on the cross, but that it grieved him at His heart that the world became so sinful that He had to give His only begotten Son to be the final blood sacrifice that through Him and those who come to Him can have eternal life with the Father, John 3:16. This was God's divine plan in the beginning, even before the foundation of the world.
Psalm 22:1 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
Psalm 22:24 For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.
Matthew 27:45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour. 46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
God never forsook Jesus as deity can not be separated. Comparing the above verses in Psalms and Matthew Jesus was declaring to His accusers as He hung on the cross that they were in the midst of fulfilling Psalms 22. The psalmist himself understood that the forsaking of God was not abandonment, but a lifting of His Sovereign protection according to His divine plan so the threats of His enemies could be carried out in prophecy. There were many times during Jesus ministry that the enemy wanted to kill Him, but they couldn't as His time had not yet come from above, John 7:30
2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 Peter 1:19 Jesus, a lamb without spot or blemish. God made Jesus to be sin for us who knew no sin that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him.
journeyman
Member
Yes. He came to His own and many didn't welcome Him. He was betrayed.
Yes, but we as mere men cannot fathom what God felt like as a man. I don't mean the physical pain. Anyone bearen and crucified would know the same pain.
I'm talking about the way He felt when His creation spit on Him, mocked Him.
No. The Son is of His own nature, innately equal to the Holy Spirit in every way except that He was covered in flesh, which is described as the veil separating God from view,
he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say,his flesh; Heb.10:20 KJV
I think any human king would be appalled if he knew there was a plot to kill him. I think any human king who knew of a conspiracy and had the power to kill his enemies would do so, but our Savior didn't do that. Instead Jesus showed mercy to people who inflicted great pain on Him.
I think that's why He sweat blood. I think He fought off Satans' temptation to kill His enemies.
Hey for_his_glory
Now!! Today!!! It is time to take that message to God's people, Israel! That through the same trust and faith that God asks of us, He also asks of them. Make His Son, Jesus the Lord of your life. Understand! Open the eyes blinded by God that the message would go out into the Gentile nations. But now it is time! Israel!~Understand that God sent His Son to you and that His Son began a ministry, that at the time you denied, proclaiming to do all that Isaiah wrote of him doing as he lived among us. Israel!! Understand that God wants you to look at that place where David wrote, "My God, my God! Why have you forsaken me?" It's time! Look and behold that God has done a wonderful thing through you and your people. He has delivered His promise to Abraham that through his generations all nations would be blessed. GOD HAS DONE IT!!!!!!!!!!!
Praise God! Yisra'el!! We stand on the precipice of eternity and it is time. Know that your God sent to you His Christ. Know that it was your God's full intention that he die and that he die at the hands of God's people. God would not want the death of His precious Son to be ordered by the Gentile dogs of the world. NO!!! It was through the Jew that salvation would come to the earth and it was by the Jew that God accomplished His great plan.
But it is time. For those of Israel, who have lived their lives with the hope that they serve their God righteously, to see what God now asks of all who would receive His promise of eternal life. Jesus is Lord. God is his Father. And the God of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob wants you to know that to get to Him, you must go through His Son.
]
God bless,
Ted
Amen, amen and again I say amen! God wasn't grieved beyond what He had known from the beginning would be the ultimate price to be paid to attain His goal. Jesus knew he would be alive in three days and would ascend back to the Father from whence he had come. God didn't forsake Jesus. Jesus was using his last breaths to teach God's people that what they were witnessing before their very eyes was exactly what David had written about this moment 1,000 years before.
Now!! Today!!! It is time to take that message to God's people, Israel! That through the same trust and faith that God asks of us, He also asks of them. Make His Son, Jesus the Lord of your life. Understand! Open the eyes blinded by God that the message would go out into the Gentile nations. But now it is time! Israel!~Understand that God sent His Son to you and that His Son began a ministry, that at the time you denied, proclaiming to do all that Isaiah wrote of him doing as he lived among us. Israel!! Understand that God wants you to look at that place where David wrote, "My God, my God! Why have you forsaken me?" It's time! Look and behold that God has done a wonderful thing through you and your people. He has delivered His promise to Abraham that through his generations all nations would be blessed. GOD HAS DONE IT!!!!!!!!!!!
Praise God! Yisra'el!! We stand on the precipice of eternity and it is time. Know that your God sent to you His Christ. Know that it was your God's full intention that he die and that he die at the hands of God's people. God would not want the death of His precious Son to be ordered by the Gentile dogs of the world. NO!!! It was through the Jew that salvation would come to the earth and it was by the Jew that God accomplished His great plan.
But it is time. For those of Israel, who have lived their lives with the hope that they serve their God righteously, to see what God now asks of all who would receive His promise of eternal life. Jesus is Lord. God is his Father. And the God of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob wants you to know that to get to Him, you must go through His Son.
]
God bless,
Ted
I'm not going to delete the previous few posts but I will ask that we get back to addressing the OP's (original poster) questions only. This is the Q&A (Questions and Answers) forum and there are rules for this forum found in the sticky thread at the top of the forum. Thanks.
Because at that moment God the Father had forsaken Jesus because he had become sin, he was bearing All the sin of the world.
Jesus took ALL our punishment on the cross that included separation from God.
If that had not happened, our sins would not have been paid for.
This separation was not an eternal separation, I would speculate that it lasted only as long as Jesus's cry of dereliction.
Jesus experience Hell for us. HELL is separation from God.
oldprophet
Member
God did not forsake Jesus, His death in the cross was planned before the world was created. He was glorified. He willingly went to the cross
He was the obedient servant.