Why I want to be left behind

[th1b.taylor]

I usually love southern cuisine but that is just too weird.

To each his/her own.....it's a good thing for some of us that some money hungry psychologist type hasn't written a book, claiming that food preferences are a clue to a person's personality type.
Although, it wouldn't be that far out in left field compared to some of the other junk that is written.

Shhhhhh! You're gonna give some nut cracker an idea and he'll sell another million books. I was thinking one day about how sweet White Onions taste when Sautéed and I knew I loved PB & J so I made a sandwich. Now, the truth, My daughter and my wife think I'm strange anyway and that PB & Onions is just to weird, so you are in good company. And if you have ever watched Swamp People on one of the History Channels, You'll not be surprised when I say that people from the Swamp in south Louisiana are the only people I've found that are brave enough to try my Special Peanut Butter sandwich but then he and his wife were dumb enough to move to Texas and to work in the Oil Field with me when I was young.

 

[th1b.taylor]

That's because post tribbers also read with the warning that Jesus gives the solution, "flee to the mountains." So we see that the ones taken are those who fall prey to the eagles and
His people escape, they follow His orders to "flee to the mountains."

I have never used that argument but now I want to try to make that stick so I can use it on them. In '98 my pastor, then, had a prof in that made his case for being Post Trib and I would have loved to have hit him with that one.

 

[Deborah13]

That's because post tribbers also read with the warning that Jesus gives the solution, "flee to the mountains." So we see that the ones taken are those who fall prey to the eagles and
His people escape, they follow His orders to "flee to the mountains."

I see that I need to EDIT my post from "we see" to "I see".

I don't believe there is a separate event being called "The Rapture." I believe in the bodily resurrection of those who have died as Paul stresses through out his epistles. Romans 6:4, 1Corinth 15:42, Phil. 3:11, 2 Tim. 2:18, Heb. 6:2. Also, the resurrection of those still living at His coming that is spoken of in
1 Thess. 4:17.

 

[Brother Mike]

You are so right, Mike, but they will argue about it until they are blue in the face anyway. And I have gotten some strange looks when I assure them that, "If we both live long enough, be sure to wave back at me as we fly up to meet the LORD in the cloud!"

Amen Brother. If we do believe the earth will face a time it's never seen, the Wrath of God on all those that rejected Jesus after we preach the gospel around the World, then our hope is in the Lord and the Word. Lots of pre-tribbers that just say they believe, but can't really substantiate
that belief through scriptures. So they want to believe out of fear and escapist mentality. We can help them.

That's because post tribbers also read with the warning that Jesus gives the solution, "flee to the mountains." So we see that the ones taken are those who fall prey to the eagles and
His people escape, they follow His orders to "flee to the mountains."

Eagles:

Luk 17:37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

Eagles don't go after humans. There are a few cases of Eagles trying to snatch a small child, but not people. Eagles don't hunt in packs, but are solitary birds who do their best just to tolerate other eagles when they get near. Eagles do not eat together or gather together, nor do they gather around anything dead. Eagles spend their time hunting live and moving prey and will only eat remains if there is absolutely nothing to eat.

This is why some translators used the word Vulture in place of Eagle. WRONG!!!!! They did it anyway because the passage did not make sense to them.

The Greek word aetos Is Eagle, not vulture. However, it confused Thayer also to pine away an explanation.

Thayer:
1) an eagle: since eagles do not usually go in quest of carrion, this may to a vulture that resembles an eagle

OK, so Jesus got confused and called a Vulture an Eagle since they look similar........... RIGHT!!!!!!

Eagles do not go after Carrion though and Jesus meant EAGLE.

Jesus used this in two ways. Where the body is, the Eagles are gathered.

Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

Both Greek sentences denote in structure that it's the Eagles that are getting gathered. Not the Eagles themselves gathering.

Where a dead body is (Carcase) there will the eagles be gathered and where a Live Body is, will the eagles be gathered.
Nothing mentioned about Eagles eating people, or attacking, just mentioned that the Eagles are Gathered where a dead body is and a live body.

Compare Line upon Line, Compare spiritual with spiritual. What is the Eagle?


Both statements come in describing the coming of Jesus. In Matthew, Jesus comes as the light shines east to west, in Luke one is taken, one is left. The question was asked.

Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.
(Luk 17:36-37)

They wanted to know where? Where are they taken? Eagles don't pick up folks and take them, so we have to compare scripture to find out what Eagle is.

Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.
(Exo 19:4)

One is taken, one is left, the Lord bare us up on eagles wings and brought you to myself.

Who redeemeth thy life from destruction; who crowneth thee with lovingkindness and tender mercies; Who satisfieth thy mouth with good things; so that thy youth is renewed like the eagle's.
(Psa 103:4-5)

But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
(Isa 40:31)

Eagle means the Lord's deliverance, one is taken, the other left. The Eagles are gathered from the dead body and live body.

Isa 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
Isa 26:20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
Isa 26:21 For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

The dead are brought together until the Lord's indignation is done with the Earth as the Lord pours his wrath on the planet.

Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
(2Th 2:1)

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
(1Th 4:16-17)

Where the dead and alive are, the Eagles are gathered.

Exo 19:4 Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.

 

[Gary]

Could someone please interpret this verse for me. Nothing long or drawn out. (I have the attention span of a gnat) I'm just curious. Thanks.

Matthew 24
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

.

 

[Kathi]

That's very good. Impressive that you brought this up. Most of the post trib belief (I do mean most) is easy to defeat in a easy understandable and reasonable way. Sad that most never mention the passages here, as most pre tribbers can't explain it. On a tablet, so.... I will
Have to wait. Post tribbers make the mistake of ignoring that Jesus also said pray that you will escape all these things. So it all has to line up.

One strength of the post tribulation is that Jesus said He will return after the "great tribulatioin" Matthew 24:21.Also the book of Revelation mentions only one coming of the Lord and that occurs after the Tribulation Revelation 19:20.Passages such as Revelation 13:7 and Revelation 20:9 also tend to support a post tribulation rapture in that there will be saints in the tribulation.Post tribbers also use the resurrection of the dead Revelation 20:5.Post tribbers say that since this "first" resurrection takes place after the tribulation,the resurrection associated with the Rapture can't occur until then.One problem with post tribulation is that those who are in Christ are not under condemnation and will never experience the wrath of God Romans 8:1.Some judgments during the tribulation will target the unsaved,other judgments such as earthquakes and famines will affect the unsaved and the saved.If believers go through the tribulation this is in contradiction of Romans 8:1.There is the absence of the word Church in all biblical passages related to the tribulation.Even in Revelation 4-21 which is the longest description of the tribulation the word church is absent.

 

[Brother Mike]

Could someone please interpret this verse for me. Nothing long or drawn out. (I have the attention span of a gnat) I'm just curious. Thanks.

Matthew 24
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

.

John gives part of the vision in Rev 14 which tells us what happened to the 144,000 sealed on their forehead. They end up in Heaven, then later on in the chapter we are told how. They where gathered (I assume everyone else who followed them also) then the others false prophet and main bad guys where gathered. The conclusion of it is in Chapter 19. This places the whole event after the vials which don't leave many alive. In chapter 19 we come back with the Lord dressed in white.

This event occurs after the wrath of God is poured out or as Jesus said, Immediately after tribulation. So we have the 6th and 7th seal finally released.

One strength of the post tribulation is that Jesus said He will return after the "great tribulatioin" Matthew 24:21.Also the book of Revelation mentions only one coming of the Lord and that occurs after the Tribulation Revelation 19:20.Passages such as Revelation 13:7 and Revelation 20:9 also tend to support a post tribulation rapture in that there will be saints in the tribulation.Post tribbers also use the resurrection of the dead Revelation 20:5.Post tribbers say that since this "first" resurrection takes place after the tribulation,the resurrection associated with the Rapture can't occur until then.One problem with post tribulation is that those who are in Christ are not under condemnation and will never experience the wrath of God Romans 8:1.Some judgments during the tribulation will target the unsaved,other judgments such as earthquakes and famines will affect the unsaved and the saved.If believers go through the tribulation this is in contradiction of Romans 8:1.There is the absence of the word Church in all biblical passages related to the tribulation.Even in Revelation 4-21 which is the longest description of the tribulation the word church is absent.

I am not sure what "STRENGTHS" a Post trib position has. As far as i can tell, there are none. As you noticed the Church is not there during tribulation. Rev 12 is an past event as is Rev 1-3. John did not get the visions in chronological order.

Rev 13:7....... It was given him power to make war with the Saints. Who gave who power? It's not mentioned. Yea, it is mentioned. The Dragon gave power to the Beast, being god of this World. The beast is a physical force powered by the spiritual force of the Dragon.

We know for a fact those saints are not us, in Christ.

Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

HATH delivered us............ Has already delivered us, He that did that is not going to change His mind and put us back under Satanic power. Not going to happen.

And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
(Mat 16:18)

The Gates of hell stands ZERO change against the anointed Church. It's why we can't be in Satan's way at the end.

Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.
(Luk 10:19-20)

Who has power over those serpent spirits? That's right, we do. So the Lord's gifts and callings are what? Without repentance, and the Lord does not give or take away. Job needed his head examined for saying that. He also did exactly what Satan said he would do when he said it. The problem with gutless translations, though I do like the KJV.

And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed (Barak) be the name of the LORD.
(Job 1:21)

YLT:
The work of his hands Thou hast blessed, and his substance hath spread in the land, and yet, put forth, I pray Thee, Thy hand, and strike against anything that he hath--if not: to Thy face he doth bless (Barak) Thee!'
(Job 1:11)

There's a bible study.......


Resurrections:

A resurrection event occurs before tribulation, before God trashes the planet.

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
(Mat 24:21)

An event the Earth has never seen, nor will see again. Jesus is just quoting Danial here. Jesus just assumes we have enough sense to compare and have read Danial.

And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
(Dan 12:1-2)

At the time the trouble starts, We are delivered and there is a Resurrection Event. The dead in Christ are first followed by those of us that remain. The rest of the bodies come up after the 1,000 years and will face a 2nd death.

It said............ (MANY OF THEM) shall awake...... Not all of them at that time but some will wake to everlasting contempt after the 1,000 years and the books are opened.

Rapture connection in Revelation? yep.

After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
(Rev 4:1-2)

A trumpet voice, Come up and John is no longer in His body, or deep in the spirit

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
(1Th 4:16)

The Lord himself shall shout like an archangel, the Trump of God and personally call up his church. (Not some 7th angel blowing their trumpet) The Lord personally will do this, just like Johns vision. The scripture counted angels.... Not one time counted trumpets.

Blessings.

 

[jocor]

Could someone please interpret this verse for me. Nothing long or drawn out. (I have the attention span of a gnat) I'm just curious. Thanks.

Matthew 24
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

.

Yeshua will send his angels at the sound of the last trumpet of Rev 11:15 to resurrect the dead in him from all over the world. It is pictured in Rev 11:15-12:9.

 

[Kathi]

Well if there is a post tribulation then we will all be left behind

 

[Deborah13]

Eagles:
Luk 17:37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.
Eagles don't go after humans. There are a few cases of Eagles trying to snatch a small child, but not people. Eagles don't hunt in packs, but are solitary birds who do their best just to tolerate other eagles when they get near. Eagles do not eat together or gather together, nor do they gather around anything dead. Eagles spend their time hunting live and moving prey and will only eat remains if there is absolutely nothing to eat.

You are correct in that eagles, the bird, do not go after humans, we are too big. However, you are incorrect about eagles (the bird) not eating together and about gathering around anything dead. I will, if need be, post photographs taken this summer in my fields of eagles gathered together and fighting over the dead prairie dogs that my dh shot just a few minutes before their gathering. The goldens usually win over the balds. They do this every summer. They hear the shots and they gather within minutes, as do the red-tail hawks, magpies, and crows. The eagles always win. I have seen both a bald and a golden together chowing down on the carcase of a dead cow.

This is why some translators used the word Vulture in place of Eagle. WRONG!!!!! They did it anyway because the passage did not make sense to them.
The Greek word aetos Is Eagle, not vulture. However, it confused Thayer also to pine away an explanation.
Thayer:
1) an eagle: since eagles do not usually go in quest of carrion, this may to a vulture that resembles an eagle
OK, so Jesus got confused and called a Vulture an Eagle since they look similar........... RIGHT!!!!!!
Eagles do not go after Carrion though and Jesus meant EAGLE.

I agree with you again. The Greek language has different words for eagle and vulture. Jesus said eagles not vultures.

Jesus used this in two ways. Where the body is, the Eagles are gathered.
Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Both Greek sentences denote in structure that it's the Eagles that are getting gathered. Not the Eagles themselves gathering.

I don't see where it says "the Eagles that are getting gathered." I only see that they "be gathered together." Using the same phraseology, "For wheresoever the dead prairie dog is, there will the eagles be gathered together." True statement of fact.

Where a dead body is (Carcase) there will the eagles be gathered and where a Live Body is, will the eagles be gathered.
Nothing mentioned about Eagles eating people, or attacking, just mentioned that the Eagles are Gathered where a dead body is and a live body.

Where does this scripture speak of a live body?

Compare Line upon Line, Compare spiritual with spiritual. What is the Eagle?

Not eagle, singular, eagles, plural.

Both statements come in describing the coming of Jesus. In Matthew, Jesus comes as the light shines east to west, in Luke one is taken, one is left. The question was asked.
Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.
(Luk 17:36-37)
They wanted to know where? Where are they taken? Eagles don't pick up folks and take them, so we have to compare scripture to find out what Eagle is.
Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.
(Exo 19:4)

One is taken, one is left, the Lord bare us up on eagles wings and brought you to myself.

Who redeemeth thy life from destruction; who crowneth thee with lovingkindness and tender mercies; Who satisfieth thy mouth with good things; so that thy youth is renewed like the eagle's.
(Psa 103:4-5)

But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
(Isa 40:31)
Eagle means the Lord's deliverance, one is taken, the other left. The Eagles are gathered from the dead body and live body.

Once again it is not eagle, singular, but eagles plural.
It doesn't anything about the eagles being taken away from the dead bodies, just the opposite.
The disciples ask where the taken people will be. And He says, where the eagles are gathered.

Isa 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise

. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
Isa 26:20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
Isa 26:21 For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

The dead are brought together until the Lord's indignation is done with the Earth as the Lord pours his wrath on the planet.

Isa 26:20 Come, My people, enter into thy inner chambers, And shut thy doors behind thee, Hide thyself shortly a moment till the indignation pass over.
Gen 7:1 And Jehovah saith to Noah, `Come in, thou and all thy house, unto the ark, for thee I have seen righteous before Me in this generation;
Gen 7:5 And Noah doth according to all that Jehovah hath commanded him:
Gen 7:23 And wiped away is all the substance that is on the face of the ground, from man unto beast, unto creeping thing, and unto fowl of the heavens; yea, they are wiped away from the earth, and only Noah is left, and those who are with him in the ark;
Exo 12:22 and ye have taken a bunch of hyssop, and have dipped it in the blood which is in the basin, and have struck it on the lintel, and on the two side-posts, from the blood which is in the basin, and ye, ye go not out each from the opening of his house till morning.
Exo 12:23 `And Jehovah hath passed on to smite the Egyptians, and hath seen the blood on the lintel, and on the two side-posts, and Jehovah hath passed over the opening, and doth not permit the destruction to come into your houses to smite.
Exo 12:28 And the people bow and do obeisance, and the sons of Israel go and do as Jehovah commanded Moses and Aaron; so have they done.
Exo 12:33 And the Egyptians are urgent on the people, hasting to send them away out of the land, for they said, `We are all dead;'
Luk 17:25 and first it behoveth him to suffer many things, and to be rejected by this generation.
Luk 17:26 `And, as it came to pass in the days of Noah, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of Man;
Luk 21:20 `And when ye may see Jerusalem surrounded by encampments, then know that come nigh did her desolation;
Luk 21:21 then those in Judea, let them flee to the mountains; and those in her midst, let them depart out; and those in the countries, let them not come in to her;

Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
(2Th 2:1)

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
(1Th 4:16-17)

The resurrection of those dead and living.

Where the dead and alive are, the Eagles are gathered.

Exo 19:4 Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.

Exo 19:4 Ye--ye have seen that which I have done to the Egyptians, and I bear you on eagles' wings, and bring you in unto Myself.
Exo 12:29 And it cometh to pass, at midnight, that Jehovah hath smitten every first-born in the land of Egypt, from the first-born of Pharaoh who is sitting on his throne, unto the first-born of the captive who is in the prison-house, and every first-born of beasts.

The Lord always protects (bears on eagles wing, hides them under the shadow of eagles wings, etc.)
but in this scripture in Luke there is no mention of protecting the living. There is more than one way of being dead or as a carcase. Jesus said, "Let the dead bury the dead."

 

[Deborah13]

"...That this distinguishing, dividing, discriminating work shall be done in all places, as far as the kingdom of God shall extend, v. 37. Where, Lord? They had enquired concerning the time, and he would not gratify their curiosity with any information concerning that; they therefore tried him with another question: "Where, Lord? Where shall those be safe that are taken? Where shall those perish that are left?" The answer is proverbial, and may be explained so as to answer each side of the question: Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together. (1.) Wherever the wicked are, who are marked for perdition, they shall be found out by the judgments of God; as wherever a dead carcase is, the birds of prey will smell it out, and make a prey of it..."
http://biblehub.com/commentaries/mhcw/luke/17.htm

 

[Brother Mike]

The Lord always protects (bears on eagles wing, hides them under the shadow of eagles wings, etc.)
but in this scripture in Luke there is no mention of protecting the living. There is more than one way of being dead or as a carcase. Jesus said, "Let the dead bury the dead."

Ah well, I guess post get to long to trudge through them. That is what I said. Jesus used two passages with eagles (Plural) just like God bears us up on eagles wings... (Plural)

For wheresoever the carcase (ptōma- Dead bodies, carcase) is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
(Mat 24:28)

Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body (sōma- sound body, whole, slave, a body) is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.
(Luk 17:36-37)

They ask where are they taken, Jesus said where their body is at, will the eagles be gathered together. Who came? Who delivered?

For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.
(Luk 17:24)
Noah delivered, Lot delivered.

For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
(Mat 24:27-28)

Same event, only dead that are gathered with Eagle wings.

God bares us with wings of Eagles, the dead first then those that remain and we are caught up.

That is where we are at, because they asked him where they are taken.

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
(1Th 4:17)

Exo 19:4 Ye--ye have seen that which I have done to the Egyptians, and I bear you on eagles' wings, and bring you in unto Myself.

Eagles are not gathering, they are gathered and we are them as God catches us up right at the start of tribulation and according to Danial at that time there is a resurrection event.

Jesus comes after Tribulation, but there is a sign in the sky. See the separation here.
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
(Mat 24:21)

For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
(Mat 24:27-28)

The dead are brought up just like God meant the comparison to eagles are. Jesus comes, and the dead in Christ rise first. The great tribulation has started.

And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
(Dan 12:1-2)

At the time of trouble, Many shall awake to everlasting life with the Lord, where the Carcass is, the eagles are gathered.

After Tribulation.

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
(Mat 24:29-31)

where they taken Lord? Where their bodies are, they are mounted up the eagles are gathered as at that time Gods people are delivered and some of the dead awake.

anyway... blessings. it was getting to long again.

Mike.

 

[jasonc]

if I may ask. why would go in the distance future from the time of ad 70 have to tell what Hebrew is of what tribe to merely save them when in james day he was writing an epistle to the ten lost tribes? god saved 3000 on the day that the Holy Spirit came to the earth.

 

[JLB]

Could someone please interpret this verse for me. Nothing long or drawn out. (I have the attention span of a gnat) I'm just curious. Thanks.

Matthew 24
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

.

That's the Resurrection of the dead, which is before the Rapture.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Ah well, I guess post get to long to trudge through them. That is what I said. Jesus used two passages with eagles (Plural) just like God bears us up on eagles wings... (Plural)

For wheresoever the carcase (ptōma- Dead bodies, carcase) is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
(Mat 24:28)

Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body (sōma- sound body, whole, slave, a body) is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.
(Luk 17:36-37)

They ask where are they taken, Jesus said where their body is at, will the eagles be gathered together. Who came? Who delivered?

For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.
(Luk 17:24)
Noah delivered, Lot delivered.

For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
(Mat 24:27-28)

Same event, only dead that are gathered with Eagle wings.

God bares us with wings of Eagles, the dead first then those that remain and we are caught up.

That is where we are at, because they asked him where they are taken.

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
(1Th 4:17)

Exo 19:4 Ye--ye have seen that which I have done to the Egyptians, and I bear you on eagles' wings, and bring you in unto Myself.

Eagles are not gathering, they are gathered and we are them as God catches us up right at the start of tribulation and according to Danial at that time there is a resurrection event.

Jesus comes after Tribulation, but there is a sign in the sky. See the separation here.
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
(Mat 24:21)

For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
(Mat 24:27-28)

The dead are brought up just like God meant the comparison to eagles are. Jesus comes, and the dead in Christ rise first. The great tribulation has started.

And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
(Dan 12:1-2)

At the time of trouble, Many shall awake to everlasting life with the Lord, where the Carcass is, the eagles are gathered.

After Tribulation.

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
(Mat 24:29-31)

where they taken Lord? Where their bodies are, they are mounted up the eagles are gathered as at that time Gods people are delivered and some of the dead awake.

anyway... blessings. it was getting to long again.

Mike.

The Resurrection of the dead in Christ takes place AFTER the tribulation and BEFORE the Rapture.

That is ALL anyone needs to know, to understand the timing of the Rapture.


JLB

 

[Deborah13]

One problem with post tribulation is that those who are in Christ are not under condemnation and will never experience the wrath of God Romans 8:1.

Did those righteous in Noah's day experience God's wrath?
Did righteous Lot experience God's wrath in the destruction of S&G?
Did the Hebrew children experience God's wrath in Egypt?
In every case God protected them because they obeyed by doing what He said to do.
In this case in Luke and Matthew, Jesus tells them what to do. Those in Judea, "Flee to the mountains."

Some judgments during the tribulation will target the unsaved,other judgments such as earthquakes and famines will affect the unsaved and the saved.If believers go through the tribulation this is in contradiction of Romans 8:1.There is the absence of the word Church in all biblical passages related to the tribulation.Even in Revelation 4-21 which is the longest description of the tribulation the word church is absent.

Why would an earthquake and famine in Judea, effect the saved who fled Judea? There was an earthquake the day Jesus died, it didn't even destroy the city.
Why would the Christians who had fled Judea be mentioned in the tribulation that came on Judea?

 

[Gary]

The Resurrection of the dead in Christ takes place AFTER the tribulation and BEFORE the Rapture.

That is ALL anyone needs to know, to understand the timing of the Rapture.


JLB

This is absolutely correct.
.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Could someone please interpret this verse for me. Nothing long or drawn out. (I have the attention span of a gnat) I'm just curious. Thanks.

Matthew 24
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

.

I'll give it a try.

25

Behold, I have told you beforehand. 26 If therefore they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the wilderness; go not forth: Behold, he is in the inner chambers; believe it not. 27 For as the lightning cometh forth from the east, and is seen even unto the west; so shall be the coming of the Son of man. 28 Wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. 29 But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send forth his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

This can be corkscrewed in a more than one direction and we must remember that no scripture, nor any group of scripture, can stand alone but must be married to and viewed in the light of all scripture. That being understood your chosen or posted verse means nothing without it's defining contextual scripture being included. But we see from proceeding scripture that these are words spoken, directly, from the mouth of Jesus as He is seeking to give His followers understanding of what He has already foretold them. In verse 26 He is stressing that, in the End Time (understood) false prophets will work to deceive by pulling the wool over the eyes of people and Jesus warns us not to be deceived.

In verse 27 we see Jesus explaining his return, not for the Rapture (the catching away in English Bibles) but of His return, when His feet will, once more, touch the ground. The most difficult for us to understand is that He tells us that just as the lighting is viewed both near and far, so will the whole earth view His return. This is much discussed and debated in the past and is still much contested. There is an entire click that tells of the use of the Telecast Satellites for a world wide simulcast, poor fools of such small faith. If Jesus chooses to use the News Jackals of this world, He will but how belittling just the thought is, He is the Master Creator and a small thing like arranging for all men to witness His return to, first to Rapture the saved and then and second, His return to rule is nothing to the creator that, in His hands, either one of them, holds unlimited, unrestrained, power.

In verse 28 we see the time fixed as immediately after the Battle of Armageddon because the birds are feasting on the carcasses. In my Pretrib view this means the seven year Great Tribulation has occurred and Satan, I believe, has been restrained for the next 1,000 years. In 29 we see the confirmation of this thought and the events described in the Revelation of the Sun, Moon and the Stars being turned off, if I might be permitted poetic license.

In verse 30 arguments, silly, useless debates are generated. For this reason we must be careful with conveying our understanding of this verse. If i were not returning with Christ from the third Heaven, I'm certain I would be fixed in my footprints, unable to speak and amazed to see Jesus returning on the cloud followed by as much as 72,000, 12 Legions, of Angels and the members of the Bride of the Christ. This will by far be the most amazing spectacle ever viewed by any Lost Man.

And in verse 31, I know, finally, we see why the Saints of the Bride are behind Jesus. Remember there are three heavens or more accurately in modern speech, three types of heaven and only one of them is is a place where no man has walked until the first rapture where and when the Lost will witness bodies coming out of the graves to live again and then all those pesky Christians Fly Away with them. Those rascals are going to have the greatest seven, earth year, adventure they have ever had. But when the Trumpets blow we will report for duty.

I don't know if this helps but this all I can say until the LORD reveals more to me.

 

[th1b.taylor]

This is absolutely correct.
.

You and I have every right to disagree on this and we do but we are still brothers. ¿And I'm right?

 

[Gary]

You and I have every right to disagree on this and we do but we are still brothers. ¿And I'm right?

.................

.