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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Why is God cruel
- Thread starter krisantha
- Start date
Please supply details of the judgement/moral system you are using to identify innocence!
Life may well be very difficult for you, you may have suffered cruelly, but the fact they you accuse God of being cruel and not caring shows you do not understand about God.
Who is it that provides all of us with life?
Who is it that ensures there is a world, weather, the means for life?
Who has given us laws to teach us about God?
Who died to attune for yours and my sins?
You begin with a false premise of God’s sovereignty as micro-managerial, then draw a false conclusion. If you begin with the understanding that God is semi-interventional, you will see that in principle some or all cruelty might not come directly from God. I think a strong case can be made that some cruelty does come directly from him, howbeit not motivated by cruelty (eg Gen.50:20): there is some truth in the phrase, You’ve got to be cruel to be kind. His own beloved and fully complicit son as a human being, was betrayed by God for humanity’s wellbeing.
Likewise from semi-interventionalism you will be able to see that sometimes the evil are blessed by chance, not by God. Ps.73 laments that evil triumphs: “This is what the wicked are like—always free of care, they go on amassing wealth. Surely in vain I have kept my heart pure and have washed my hands in innocence. All day long I have been afflicted, and every morning brings new punishments.” There was a bigger picture.
There are laws of nature sparked off by God such as gravity, so are his indirect handiwork. If nature is the Big Bang child, we may say that God is nature’s grandfather. If I jump without a parachute from a high flying aeroplane, I’ll probably die. Will God have killed me? Yes, by indirect laws. The Bible often jumps a generation and simply speaks of God as ultimacy. Thus laws of nature, weal and woe, can apply amorally to innocent and guilty, to virtue and vice (Mt.5:45): “…. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.”
He who created the universe needs no science experiment. That insults his intelligence. He who created the offer of adoption into his family, needs no laboratory rats. That insults his love.
There are plenty of other factors in the equation, such as suffering as a means of maturation (as Solzhenitsyn witnessed), and God allowing natural blessings to rebellious human beings (forbearance), alongside a call to repentance. Both good in mortal, chrysalis, life. The far bigger picture is post-mortem life, the fulness to come. But that is a never-ending story.
Enlightenedtruth
Member
I'm sorry you feel that way.
God is not cruel; He has given us all a chance at redemption.
God does not Bless evil people; evil people "gain" because they will do anything and everything to "get ahead".
God does care; if He did not, humanity would have been destroyed long ago.
There is a "purpose" to our life here on this earth; and it has nothing to do with any "experiment". While most will reject the truth of that; none of "what is" was an "accident". Father (God) does know what He is doing.
Hey All,
Who deserves God's kindness?
God is not kind because someone deserves it.
Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Nobody is good enough on their own.
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Who deserves eternal life through Jesus?
Quite honestly, did you just break up with someone? Someone who is, "the most evil manipulative liars and cheats."
Do you want to talk about that?
If not, I apologize.
Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz
journeyman
Member
Why were people cruel to Jesus? He didn't deserve it.
Hi krisantha
I pray that you'll find Him. God is not cruel. Sin is. I'm pretty sure that when you look at all the things that you consider cruel, you'll find that most of them aren't from God. As far as the wicked prospering, yes, that's been a question since time began. Job asked: “Why do the wicked prosper, growing old and powerful? They live to see their children grow up and settle down, and they enjoy their grandchildren. Their homes are safe from every fear, and God does not punish them." But they don't understand that they have received their blessing while living on the earth. That such blessings as we receive in physical things on this earth while we are alive are all temporal. The only blessing that will last throughout eternity is the blessing of God sending His Son that we might have eternal lives of peace and security with God. But even the wicked's prosperity generally comes from sin.
Consider that we live in a created realm. Yes, you could look at it as a science experiment, but there will be a life altering test at the end. God loves us and wants only what is good for us. But our penchant to choose to live against His purposes for us is what brings us pain and suffering. He will also discipline those that He loves and that may feel like a cruel time in our lives, but it is for our good that He does it.
I see that you're from London, but you don't indicate whether or not you've ever known Jesus. Would you share a testimony with us? Of course, if you'd rather not do so publicly on the boards, feel free to PM me. Krisantha, God loves you. He has shown His love for you in that while you are yet a sinner, He sent His Son to die in your place the eternal death that we all deserve. It is only through that blessing that any of us have hope and security in the future. Because God loves all of us.
But as we live in this life of monetary wealth and popularity and forgetting all about Him, then we find a lot of things that just don't seem right. Jesus wept over us. You too, can bring your burdens before the Lord. Seek him and while you may not enjoy financial riches, you will have peace in your spirit.
God bless,
Ted
I pray that you'll find Him. God is not cruel. Sin is. I'm pretty sure that when you look at all the things that you consider cruel, you'll find that most of them aren't from God. As far as the wicked prospering, yes, that's been a question since time began. Job asked: “Why do the wicked prosper, growing old and powerful? They live to see their children grow up and settle down, and they enjoy their grandchildren. Their homes are safe from every fear, and God does not punish them." But they don't understand that they have received their blessing while living on the earth. That such blessings as we receive in physical things on this earth while we are alive are all temporal. The only blessing that will last throughout eternity is the blessing of God sending His Son that we might have eternal lives of peace and security with God. But even the wicked's prosperity generally comes from sin.
Consider that we live in a created realm. Yes, you could look at it as a science experiment, but there will be a life altering test at the end. God loves us and wants only what is good for us. But our penchant to choose to live against His purposes for us is what brings us pain and suffering. He will also discipline those that He loves and that may feel like a cruel time in our lives, but it is for our good that He does it.
I see that you're from London, but you don't indicate whether or not you've ever known Jesus. Would you share a testimony with us? Of course, if you'd rather not do so publicly on the boards, feel free to PM me. Krisantha, God loves you. He has shown His love for you in that while you are yet a sinner, He sent His Son to die in your place the eternal death that we all deserve. It is only through that blessing that any of us have hope and security in the future. Because God loves all of us.
But as we live in this life of monetary wealth and popularity and forgetting all about Him, then we find a lot of things that just don't seem right. Jesus wept over us. You too, can bring your burdens before the Lord. Seek him and while you may not enjoy financial riches, you will have peace in your spirit.
God bless,
Ted
LovethroughDove
Member
Would you want someone misrepresenting who you are truly? That is what you just did. If you don't know someone, don't slander them just cause you think you know them. Countless people on here will tell you EXACTLY who he is and his character, but I get the feeling that is not really what you came here to talk about.
God isn't cruel at all. He has given to us beautiful sunsets and sunrises, majestic mountain vistas, chocolate, kittens and puppies, the joy of music, the delight of sex, the blessings of children, and so on. Most of all, He's given us the opportunity to know and walk with Him, the Maker and Sustainer of Everything. Now THAT'S amazing! Astounding, even!
What we all deserve, being as wicked and rebellious toward God as we are, is death. A cruel God would take advantage of this fact, like Allah, for instance, who hates all but those who have demonstrated sufficiently that they love and serve him - ideally by killing themselves and as many "infidels" as possible in a suicide bombing, or by running about randomly stabbing "infidels" 'til they're gunned down by police, etc.. Now that's a cruel god.
The God revealed in the Bible, is not like Allah, cold and bloodthirsty, but is "longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance" (2 Peter 3:9). Though we all deserve death, being the evil, sinful creatures that we are, God has acted to save us from ourselves, from the deadly, eternal consequences of our sin, by sending His only Son to atone for our sin, which we could never have done ourselves (John 3:16; 2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 John 4:7-11).
We look over at the person we think is rotten and wonder why God doesn't "do something about him/her" and give that bad person what they really deserve. We do this because our standard of comparison is just ourselves; we haven't murdered anyone, or sold illicit, death-dealing drugs to others, or robbed a bank, or raped somebody, or abused children, or whatever, and so we believe ourselves to be superior to those "bad people" whom we think God should thump immediately and very hard.
But God's standard of comparison is Himself, His perfection. Held up to this standard, we all fall far, far, far short. Even the very nicest person we can think of compared to the holy perfection of God is a nasty piece of work, an evil, wretched individual. When we start pointing at those we think are evil, then, by which we actually mean those not as good as we think that we are, and asking why God allows them to continue - and even to prosper - in their wickedness, we just show how little we understand God's basis for determining who's good and who's bad.
As far as God's concerned, you are just as deserving of His judgment and punishment as the axe murderer, or pedophile. Compared to him, not to the worst person you can think of, you are so deeply rotten that you deserve eternal hell. But God shows you mercy, and patience, and even love, not cruelty - just as He does all sinners, which is everybody. Though you deserve hell, He's offering to you heaven and eternal, joyful fellowship with Himself. How is this the conduct of a God who is cruel?
electedbyhim
Member
The only thing sinful humans deserve is hell and damnation according to Gods word.
What is the difference between cause and effect and judgement and blessing?
Life as we experience it is about surviving and helping others we come across.
Together we stand, divided we fall.
If you look at creation as a garden into which people sow their lives and reap whatever
that comes their way. For this to work, and to reap eternal results, there must no be
bias or stopping the consequences of what must be. The difficulty we face is the divide
between our cultural inheritance and our individual behaviour and consequences.
It is clear whole groups fell under Gods judgement to be wiped out, men women and
children.
For me the question is who is God and what is He like? What is His will and intention.
Jesus came to declare God can be our friend if we are prepared to repent and love as He
loves, to learn His ways and path. It is hard to see because the Lord is humble, quiet, intense,
open, honest, empathetic and aware the anger within many would lash out as wish to destroy
Him and overthrow His ways.
The confusion we have is over our hurt and pain. They had no right, is our first mistake. Then
I can take revenge and hurt others as I have been hurt, and turn this into some weird joke.
It is our inherited separation from the Lord, and love without example or balance becomes hidden
with only the outer shell of pretend.
So pain without context, suffering without history appears cruel, but with Gods perspective, the life
given and blessed is the opportunity all have to find Him, and when the door closes it is eternally
shut.
The fool who lies, the cheat who thinks he has got away with it, pays in the end. The delusion of their
joy and success becomes sand when they realise they are literally all alone and that which they gained
passes on to their enemies. The righteous prosper and their friendship blossom, their words bring
comfort and the hope in their hearts is life to many. God bless you
Hi krisantha and welcome to CF 
Very good question that many of us have asked before truly getting to know God and the love He has for everyone.
Lamentations 3:22 It is of the Lord’s mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not.
Lamentations 3:23 they are new every morning: great is they faithfulness.
Mercy loves and grace pardons. God looks past our sinful nature and goes straight to the heart of a persons character to know there is hope for everyone of us if we would only come boldly to his throne of grace and surrender this fleshly nature and allow God to cloth us in his righteousness as our own righteousness is as a filthy rag to God, Isaiah 64:6; Titus 3:5, 6.
It’s not God that condemns us as in the flesh as we are already condemned by our fleshly sin nature we are all born with, but does not activate until we come into the knowledge of sin for the word says there is none that are righteous, Romans 3:10-20.
The washing of regeneration by that of Gods Holy Spirit, John 3:5 cleanses us of our sin nature that has caused all to sin as sin entered the world by one and continues through the generations. Jesus whom forgives our confessed sin sanctifying as God sets us apart through His mercy to be called heirs to the throne of grace through his son Jesus Christ who laid his own life down so we could have life eternal with the Father.
Sin separates us from God because God is a spirit and can only recognize his own children by what spirit is living in their hearts. We have to renew, rebirth - born again, Gods Spirit within us in order to be called a child of God and see the kingdom of heaven. We now put off the old man (flesh) and put on the new man (Spirit), Colossians 3:1-17. We are renewed by the word (Spirit of God) and through the Holy Spirit teaching us of all things, John 14:26.
Matthew 5:1-16 blessed is the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy. When our hearts are right with the Lord then he has compassion on all his children and whatever you ask for in his name he will meet your needs, but one important factor in this is that you also have to have mercy for those who trespass against you to forgive what others do against you, Mark 11:22-26.
You can study the Mercy seat of God in the OT and how the sacrifices were made for the atonement of sin to see how figurative this was to the coming Messiah (Christ Jesus) who is now our mercy seat through his birth, death and resurrection as Jesus was made the final sacrificial lamb for the atonement of all men and gathered all our sins and put them upon himself and died to set us free from sin and God raised him again on the third day so we could take part in his death and resurrection, which means when we accept Jesus we die to our old fleshly ways and now are resurrected to live with him for eternity.
God’s love is not limited, but we choose to limit Gods love by separating ourselves from his mercy and grace. Jude vs. 17-23 Keep yourselves in the love of God always looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternity.
Very good question that many of us have asked before truly getting to know God and the love He has for everyone.
Lamentations 3:22 It is of the Lord’s mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not.
Lamentations 3:23 they are new every morning: great is they faithfulness.
Mercy loves and grace pardons. God looks past our sinful nature and goes straight to the heart of a persons character to know there is hope for everyone of us if we would only come boldly to his throne of grace and surrender this fleshly nature and allow God to cloth us in his righteousness as our own righteousness is as a filthy rag to God, Isaiah 64:6; Titus 3:5, 6.
It’s not God that condemns us as in the flesh as we are already condemned by our fleshly sin nature we are all born with, but does not activate until we come into the knowledge of sin for the word says there is none that are righteous, Romans 3:10-20.
The washing of regeneration by that of Gods Holy Spirit, John 3:5 cleanses us of our sin nature that has caused all to sin as sin entered the world by one and continues through the generations. Jesus whom forgives our confessed sin sanctifying as God sets us apart through His mercy to be called heirs to the throne of grace through his son Jesus Christ who laid his own life down so we could have life eternal with the Father.
Sin separates us from God because God is a spirit and can only recognize his own children by what spirit is living in their hearts. We have to renew, rebirth - born again, Gods Spirit within us in order to be called a child of God and see the kingdom of heaven. We now put off the old man (flesh) and put on the new man (Spirit), Colossians 3:1-17. We are renewed by the word (Spirit of God) and through the Holy Spirit teaching us of all things, John 14:26.
Matthew 5:1-16 blessed is the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy. When our hearts are right with the Lord then he has compassion on all his children and whatever you ask for in his name he will meet your needs, but one important factor in this is that you also have to have mercy for those who trespass against you to forgive what others do against you, Mark 11:22-26.
You can study the Mercy seat of God in the OT and how the sacrifices were made for the atonement of sin to see how figurative this was to the coming Messiah (Christ Jesus) who is now our mercy seat through his birth, death and resurrection as Jesus was made the final sacrificial lamb for the atonement of all men and gathered all our sins and put them upon himself and died to set us free from sin and God raised him again on the third day so we could take part in his death and resurrection, which means when we accept Jesus we die to our old fleshly ways and now are resurrected to live with him for eternity.
God’s love is not limited, but we choose to limit Gods love by separating ourselves from his mercy and grace. Jude vs. 17-23 Keep yourselves in the love of God always looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternity.
Will also add these verses taken from the KJV of the Bible. If you truly want to know who Jesus is and our relationship with Him please read the book of John in the Bible as this will help you learn of the love God has for everyone and gave us His only begotten Son, Christ Jesus.
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
John 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
John 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
These are those who have hardened their hearts against God and will have no part of having eternal life with Him. Think seriously about the choices you make.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
John 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
John 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
These are those who have hardened their hearts against God and will have no part of having eternal life with Him. Think seriously about the choices you make.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
When it rains......everyone gets wet.
NO one deserves the goodness of God. God loves you so much that He has allowed to you live long enough to learn how to use a computer !! Think about that for a minute.
"ALL people are sinners" and those who come to Christ are forgiven sinners.
God isn't cruel. Justice will come at 7th trump, when Jesus returns as King of Kings.
Proverbs chapter 5:21. For the ways of man are before the eyes of the Lord, and He ponders all his giving.
Jesus sess and hears everything. The Wicked get away with nothing. The wicked are digging their own graves. Thier going to Hell.
5:22 . His own iniquities shall take the wicked himself, And he shall be Holden with the cords of his sins.
DVAH in Hebrew means = Iniquities.
The wicked destroy themselves. They won't repent and conform to God's standard.
Wicked follow satan into lake of fire on judgement day.
There own sins destroy them.
Those who repent and love and serve God have nothing to worry about.
God is Fair. Wicked entrap themselves.
We understand this.
Some people will not love God. They think they see brighter light in Lucifer. There just evil.
Proverbs chapter 5:21. For the ways of man are before the eyes of the Lord, and He ponders all his giving.
Jesus sess and hears everything. The Wicked get away with nothing. The wicked are digging their own graves. Thier going to Hell.
5:22 . His own iniquities shall take the wicked himself, And he shall be Holden with the cords of his sins.
DVAH in Hebrew means = Iniquities.
The wicked destroy themselves. They won't repent and conform to God's standard.
Wicked follow satan into lake of fire on judgement day.
There own sins destroy them.
Those who repent and love and serve God have nothing to worry about.
God is Fair. Wicked entrap themselves.
We understand this.
Some people will not love God. They think they see brighter light in Lucifer. There just evil.
Yes.....God is good !
The fact that God is good means that He has no evil in Him, His intentions and motivations are always good, He always does what is right, and the outcome of His plan is always good. There is nothing unpleasant, evil, or dark in Him.
Jesus died an agonizing cruel death on the cross at the hands of man. Those that didn't belong to God.
He understands suffering by experience. As far as wealth He died with a one-piece woven tunic. The Roman soldiers cast lots to see who would keep it. Eternal life in a Kingdom that can never be destroyed is promised to those who obey God. And the wrath of God is promised to those who disobey God. God commands us to love one another. When that doesn't happen is that God's fault? Is God cruel that He allows people their own free will? God Loves and desires to bless. He desires all to "choose life". He takes no pleasure in punishing. The wicked will be consigned to the lake of fire as testified in the book of Revelation. That is the 2nd death and it is forever. Man has only been appointed to die once. To die twice is based on the choices you make while in the life of the body. Those who are evil manipulative liars and cheats, as you state, if they die in that state will suffer in the lake of fire. Those who receive Christ and live by believing in His name though they were to die will live and never die. He will raise them to life on the last day. The resurrection of the righteous.
The one who sows the weeds in this world is Satan. (Gods enemy)
Make no mistake God will show Himself holy in this. His faithfulness endures forever.