Bible Study Why is Psalm 41 about Jesus?

[Lucian Hodoboc]

In John 13:18, Jesus says: "I am not referring to all of you; I know those I have chosen. But this is to fulfill this passage of Scripture: 'He who shared my bread has turned against me.'". The only passage of Scripture, that we currently know of, containing a statement similar to that is Psalm 41:9, which says: "Even my close friend whom I trusted, the one who shared my bread, has lifted up his heel against me."

If this isn't the passage that Jesus was referring to, if there is some Scripture that has been lost or that we are not aware of, then this question should be reconsidered.

However, if the passage that Jesus refers to is indeed Psalm 41:9, please explain to me why or how the Psalm could possibly refer to Him, considering that in verse 4 of the same Psalm, the psalmist says: "I said, 'Have mercy on me, Lord; heal me, for I have sinned against you'". Jesus was sinless, so why would we assume that verse 9 is a prophecy about Jesus while verse 4, which seems to be referring to the same person, is not a prophecy about Jesus?

 

[daninthelionsden]

In John 13:18, Jesus says: "I am not referring to all of you; I know those I have chosen. But this is to fulfill this passage of Scripture: 'He who shared my bread has turned against me.'". The only passage of Scripture, that we currently know of, containing a statement similar to that is Psalm 41:9, which says: "Even my close friend whom I trusted, the one who shared my bread, has lifted up his heel against me."

If this isn't the passage that Jesus was referring to, if there is some Scripture that has been lost or that we are not aware of, then this question should be reconsidered.

However, if the passage that Jesus refers to is indeed Psalm 41:9, please explain to me why or how the Psalm could possibly refer to Him, considering that in verse 4 of the same Psalm, the psalmist says: "I said, 'Have mercy on me, Lord; heal me, for I have sinned against you'". Jesus was sinless, so why would we assume that verse 9 is a prophecy about Jesus while verse 4, which seems to be referring to the same person, is not a prophecy about Jesus?

wow. Good point.

 

[Quantrill]

In John 13:18, Jesus says: "I am not referring to all of you; I know those I have chosen. But this is to fulfill this passage of Scripture: 'He who shared my bread has turned against me.'". The only passage of Scripture, that we currently know of, containing a statement similar to that is Psalm 41:9, which says: "Even my close friend whom I trusted, the one who shared my bread, has lifted up his heel against me."

If this isn't the passage that Jesus was referring to, if there is some Scripture that has been lost or that we are not aware of, then this question should be reconsidered.

However, if the passage that Jesus refers to is indeed Psalm 41:9, please explain to me why or how the Psalm could possibly refer to Him, considering that in verse 4 of the same Psalm, the psalmist says: "I said, 'Have mercy on me, Lord; heal me, for I have sinned against you'". Jesus was sinless, so why would we assume that verse 9 is a prophecy about Jesus while verse 4, which seems to be referring to the same person, is not a prophecy about Jesus?

First of all, (John 13:18) doesn't say 'this passage'. It says 'that the Scripture may be fulfilled'. The Old Testament taught the betrayal of the Messiah.

In other words, Christ may not have been referring to just this passage, but to all of the Scripture which spoke to His betrayal. See (Ps. 55:12-15) (Zech. 11:11-13)

David was a prophet. And David was a sinner. The prophet spoke from the place the Spirit of God spoke. God used and uses history as prophetic also. Davids history paralleled Christ's history. Note how after Davids betrayal he and his men had to leave and he passed over the brook Kidron. (2 Sam. 15:23) Compare that to Christ, after Judas betrayed Him. (John 18:1)

The prophet was a spokesman for God. Not everything he spoke was futuristic. He could equally speak first person of himself or of first person of the coming Christ. It all depended what the Holy Spirit was leading him to say. I doubt that the prophets were always aware that something they said would pertain to the Messiah.

Quantrill

 

[JLB]

In John 13:18, Jesus says: "I am not referring to all of you; I know those I have chosen. But this is to fulfill this passage of Scripture: 'He who shared my bread has turned against me.'". The only passage of Scripture, that we currently know of, containing a statement similar to that is Psalm 41:9, which says: "Even my close friend whom I trusted, the one who shared my bread, has lifted up his heel against me."

If this isn't the passage that Jesus was referring to, if there is some Scripture that has been lost or that we are not aware of, then this question should be reconsidered.

However, if the passage that Jesus refers to is indeed Psalm 41:9, please explain to me why or how the Psalm could possibly refer to Him, considering that in verse 4 of the same Psalm, the psalmist says: "I said, 'Have mercy on me, Lord; heal me, for I have sinned against you'". Jesus was sinless, so why would we assume that verse 9 is a prophecy about Jesus while verse 4, which seems to be referring to the same person, is not a prophecy about Jesus?

Because one verse was referring to Jesus, doesn’t mean every verse in psalm 41 was referring to Him.

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

First of all, (John 13:18) doesn't say 'this passage'. It says 'that the Scripture may be fulfilled'.

It depends on the translation. NIV says: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John 13:18&version=NIV

If biblical prophecy does not require any textual indication that a verse is intended to be a prediction, then how do we tell the difference between a verse that's intended to be prophetic and a verse that's not intended to be prophetic? There has to make some sense, otherwise the New Testament Scriptures could quote any sentence from the Jewish Scriptures and apply it to Jesus' life.

 

[JLB]

If biblical prophecy does not require any textual indication that a verse is intended to be a prediction, then how do we tell the difference between a verse that's intended to be prophetic and a verse that's not intended to be prophetic?

what is textual indication?

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

How do we know what is prophecy and what is not? Usually, a prophecy means a statement in future tense that predicts events that will occur in the future. What is your definition of the word "prophecy"?

 

[Quantrill]

It depends on the translation. NIV says: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John 13:18&version=NIV

If biblical prophecy does not require any textual indication that a verse is intended to be a prediction, then how do we tell the difference between a verse that's intended to be prophetic and a verse that's not intended to be prophetic? There has to make some sense, otherwise the New Testament Scriptures could quote any sentence from the Jewish Scriptures and apply it to Jesus' life.

No it doesn't. It depends on the one giving the post. If it depended on the translation, you would have acknowledged that in your opening post. You didn't.



I just gave you the 'sense'. Pay attention.

Yes, indeed. The New Testament Scriptures could quote from any sentence from the Old and apply it to Jesus life.

Is that a problem? (Luke 24:44)

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

How do we know what is prophecy and what is not? Usually, a prophecy means a statement in future tense that predicts events that will occur in the future. What is your definition of the word "prophecy"?

Pay attention. Everything the prophet speaks is 'prophecy'. It comes from God. It doesn't have to be futuristic.

You don't know.....because.....? I'll let you answer that.

Quantrill

 

[Hopeful]

It depends on the translation. NIV says: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John 13:18&version=NIV

If biblical prophecy does not require any textual indication that a verse is intended to be a prediction, then how do we tell the difference between a verse that's intended to be prophetic and a verse that's not intended to be prophetic? There has to make some sense, otherwise the New Testament Scriptures could quote any sentence from the Jewish Scriptures and apply it to Jesus' life.

The prophetic verses were fulfilled.
Though some wait still for fulfillment.

 

[daninthelionsden]

In my own humble opinion with my puny mind, I believe there are prophecies meant for nations/peoples and that those should be taken in the context of the flow/subject matter of that setting of time. There is another type of prophecy called personal prophecy which is not in need of such limitations of human understanding. If an orphan comes across "I will be his Father and he shall be My son" in need of contextual dissection? No. That individual may claim any verse that leaps out to his/her spirit from the Living Word as it should be. Or how about "When my mother and father forsake me then the Lord will lift me up"? No need for contextual confirmation. In Jesus's case, the verse in question was as much for His personal edification as any eavesdroppers' present. No contextual limitation therefore apply.

 

[for_his_glory]

Cross reference for the prophecy given in Psalms 41:9 is that of what Jesus said in Luke 22:47; John 13:18; 17:12 that he called out Judas whom He knew would betray Him.

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

Cross reference for the prophecy given in Psalms 41:9 is that of what Jesus said in Luke 22:47; John 13:18; 17:12 that he called out Judas whom He knew would betray Him.

Would you mind rephrasing what you said, cause I've read the sentence several times, but I cannot understand what you mean? I know that Judas betrayed Jesus. What does that have to do with the fact that Psalm 41:4 says that the psalmist sinned? If the psalmist is talking about himself in verse 4, then he is also talking about himself in verse 9. Cause in both verses he speaks in first person narrative and he is not quoting anyone else. If the psalmist is talking about Jesus in verse 9, then he is also talking about Jesus in the other verses. So how come verse 4 says that he sinned?

 

[Randy]

Would you mind rephrasing what you said, cause I've read the sentence several times, but I cannot understand what you mean? I know that Judas betrayed Jesus. What does that have to do with the fact that Psalm 41:4 says that the psalmist sinned? If the psalmist is talking about himself in verse 4, then he is also talking about himself in verse 9. Cause in both verses he speaks in first person narrative and he is not quoting anyone else. If the psalmist is talking about Jesus in verse 9, then he is also talking about Jesus in the other verses. So how come verse 4 says that he sinned?

That Jesus sinned against God is not a possible answer. That leaves that portion of the text referring to the writer. For the director of music. A psalm of David.

We could not identify, apart from Jesus in this case, the portion pointing to Him and Judas.

Likewise Psalm 110 A psalm of David
This is the writer: The Lord said to my Lord
This is God: Sit at my right hand....

Jesus gave them, His disciples. the prophecies pointing to Him.
Road to Emmaus to Cleopas and his companion.
And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.

So clearly Thomas was not the only one to doubt.
In addition, some of our women amazed us. They went to the tomb early this morning 23 but didn’t find his body. They came and told us that they had seen a vision of angels, who said he was alive.

We are not those who sow doubt but those who believe and are saved.

 

[for_his_glory]

Would you mind rephrasing what you said, cause I've read the sentence several times, but I cannot understand what you mean? I know that Judas betrayed Jesus. What does that have to do with the fact that Psalm 41:4 says that the psalmist sinned? If the psalmist is talking about himself in verse 4, then he is also talking about himself in verse 9. Cause in both verses he speaks in first person narrative and he is not quoting anyone else. If the psalmist is talking about Jesus in verse 9, then he is also talking about Jesus in the other verses. So how come verse 4 says that he sinned?

You never mention Psalms 41:4. You were talking about Psalms 41:9 in what my reply was directed to.

Psalms 41 is about David asking the Lord to be gracious to him, but also the blessedness of the Lord helping the poor. Verse 9 is prophetic of Judas being a familiar friend of Jesus who ate bread with Jesus, but ended up betraying Him becoming His enemy. Luke 22:47; John 13:18; 17:12 is the prophetic being fulfilled about the familiar friend who ate bread with Christ like David's friend ate with him and betrayed their friendship.