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Chopper said:
I've already stated that we must forgive like God does, and that He remembers our sins no more. By remembering no more implies that God will not, ever, bring up a sin that He will not bring back that sin to judge us in the future.
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I know Chopper. :) That comment was not directed toward you.
 
ezrider said:
I disagree. My ability to offer forgiveness or not offer forgiveness is solely upon me. The other person is not in control of my judgement to forgive. Forgiveness is solely up to me. If my heart is not right first, then someone repenting is not going to change that.


If you have offended me, then:
Forgiveness belongs to me.
Repentance belongs to you.
When your repentance has been offered and my forgiveness has been accepted, then and only then can reconciliation happen.
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I believe and experienced that forgiveness is not an act of man (Rom. 7:17-19), but the act of the Holy Spirit in the new man. (Rom. 7:25) (Gal. 5:17) (1 Cor. 13:1-13)
 
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Douglas Summers said:
??????
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In it's context it says more than can be exp-ressed. If you are a real veteran you would not need an explanation and if you have never killed men that were doing their best to kill you I could explain until one of our deaths and you would never get it. Not being rude, it is just the truth.
 
th1b.taylor said:
In it's context it says more than can be exp-ressed. If you are a real veteran you would not need an explanation and if you have never killed men that were doing their best to kill you I could explain until one of our deaths and you would never get it. Not being rude, it is just the truth.
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I'm sorry Bill, I understood your post except the plural of "wives".
 
Nathan said:
I think you ask great questions here, along with making truthful statements. It would 'seem', in a way, that Matthew 6 is not plain in its meaning.

First we have to lay out the obvious facts. Jesus never lied. Some things of Jesus were 'hard' to understand. We have more than one instance of this 'forgiving'.

Mat 6:14-15
For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Mar 11:25
And whenever you stand praying, forgive, if you have anything against anyone, so that your Father also who is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.

Luk 6:37
Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven;

Luk 17:3-4
Pay attention to yourselves! If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him, and if he sins against you seven times in the day, and turns to you seven times, saying, ‘I repent,' you must forgive him.

So three out of the 4 Gospels have this statement in them. Must mean that its serious.(not that one instance is not enough) What they do, however, is show us different angles of what is being said.

We know that Jesus shed blood is the payment for the sins of the world - to all who will believe. Forgiveness has to be received - it is not forced on anyone.

Here is where we understand. Would God command us to do anything He would not do? Of course not. When we repent, He forgives us. If we are in Christ, and God's Spirit lives in us and leads us - would God not lead us to forgive when someone repents?

If we choose to ignore the Spirit of God leading us to forgive - do we believe God? Would you classify that as unbelief? Can you only believe some of what God says and it be complete belief? Do we think God only requires partial belief?

Point is, when we come to understand God's forgiveness and how we receive it, then it is a natural process to give it also. If we do not give forgiveness, then there is an issue - either we do not believe God, or we only believe what we want of Him. Neither of those is true faith. We have to understand it is a sin to withhold forgiveness. A person in Christ cannot continue in sin.

There are good reasons why God wants us to forgive, but that would be another topic.
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hello Nathan, dirtfarmer here

Not trying to bring up old post, nor trying to derail this thread, but if you "rightly divide the word of truth, you understand that Jesus is teaching kingdom doctrine, not grace doctrine. As far as I can tell the only command that is give during the age of Grace is "believe". If we believe that all our sin has been paid for by Christ on the cross, then we are to stop living in the flesh and start to live in the new man.
 
dirtfarmer said:
hello Nathan, dirtfarmer here

Not trying to bring up old post, nor trying to derail this thread, but if you "rightly divide the word of truth, you understand that Jesus is teaching kingdom doctrine, not grace doctrine. As far as I can tell the only command that is give during the age of Grace is "believe". If we believe that all our sin has been paid for by Christ on the cross, then we are to stop living in the flesh and start to live in the new man.
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I understand what you think. Forgiving someone is not a work of the flesh - I assure you. You cannot forgo what Jesus told His disciples.

Matthew 28:18 (ESV) 18 And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

Matthew 28:19 (ESV) 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Matthew 28:20 (ESV) 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age."

You have to ask the question; did Jesus command forgiveness?
 
Nathan said:
I understand what you think. Forgiving someone is not a work of the flesh - I assure you. You cannot forgo what Jesus told His disciples.

Matthew 28:18 (ESV) 18 And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

Matthew 28:19 (ESV) 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Matthew 28:20 (ESV) 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age."

You have to ask the question; did Jesus command forgiveness?
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hello Nathan, dirtfarmer here

I know that I have stated my belief on Matthew 28:18-20 and it goes back to "rightly dividing the word of truth". The truth is "what Jesus "told his disciples".
 
dirtfarmer said:
hello Nathan, dirtfarmer here

They were to teach all nations; it says nothing about individuals. It says nothing about " make more disciples".
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:confused

I don't see how you think that. Oh well.

Based on your thoughts, what were they to teach them?
 
Nathan said:
:confused

I don't see how you think that. Oh well.

Based on your thoughts, what were they to teach them?
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hello Nathan, dirtfarmer here

Verse 20, " Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen."
 
Nathan said:
Did Jesus command them to forgive?
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hello Nathan, dirtfarmer here

Matthew 5:2 states: " And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying: Matthew 7:29, " For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes." This the "All things " of verse 20 of Matthew 28. All these are kingdom principles, not "bride of Christ" principles. The principle of the bride of Christ is belief in the death, burial, and resurrection of our savior.
 
dirtfarmer said:
hello Nathan, dirtfarmer here

Matthew 5:2 states: " And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying: Matthew 7:29, " For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes." This the "All things " of verse 20 of Matthew 28. All these are kingdom principles, not "bride of Christ" principles. The principle of the bride of Christ is belief in the death, burial, and resurrection of our savior.
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I guess I am confused by your post.

Did Jesus teach His disciples that they were to forgive? I know He did, do you believe He did?
 
Nathan said:
I guess I am confused by your post.

Did Jesus teach His disciples that they were to forgive? I know He did, do you believe He did?
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hello Nathan, dirtfarmer here

In Matthew 5:23-26 Jesus taught reconciliation between brothers, is this what you are calling "to forgive"?
 
Nathan said:
Luke 17:3-4 is a good example I think, do you?
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hello Nathan, dirtfarmer here

As to Luke 17:3-4, is it ok to hold a grudge if the brother doesn't say," I repent". Sounds a little like law to me. As a believer, is it ok to hold a grudge? My understanding is that we are the Lord's and it is up to him to repay, not us. So, if someone does us wrong, we should not hold a grudge, even if they don't repent.
 
Douglas Summers said:
I'm sorry Bill, I understood your post except the plural of "wives".
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Before I was overcome of the Holy Spirit I married my childhood sweetheart and two other ladies, for the large part, I was moral-less except if we were to become an item, before any children, I demanded marriage. A foolish perception, maybe, but I wanted no bastard children. My Christian Wife was also devorced, I believe because she bore a girl instead of a boy. She might argue that with me but that is my opinion.

My Wife, the one I married in the same Church we both were attending. God blessed me with a godly woman after I decided I had done marriage three times and they all left me and I had to be bad at it, so, without discussing it with the Master I decided that I quit! But Deeter called and asked me if I could escort her to the Churches Valentine's Sweetheart Banquet and the rest is history. A little over a year later we married.

We both believe that the only divorce we will ever have is by S&W .38. With that data, I knew I had blown that answer. But with that you should understand where I stand. We were both, one of those, dangerous divorced people and it just made sense to her and myself to come together and to work for Christ. I can't take the Pastorate and though I have been offered to be made a Deacon, more than once, I am very conservative and refused. I have taken the pulpit and preacned but I will not break the laws written in either Testament and become anything more than a Sunday School Teacher because o9f my history before I was forgiven of all that rubbish.

God bless.
 
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