He asked was that also works?
Reads like your straining out a knat.
Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom. ”
43Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Works for Salvation: Humility
Reads like your straining out a knat.
Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom. ”
43Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
His father Zechariah was filled with the Holy Spirit and prophesied:
...
And you, my child, will be called a prophet of the Most High;
for you will go on before the Lord to prepare the way for him,
77 to give his people the knowledge of salvation
through the forgiveness of their sins,
78 because of the tender mercy of our God
Baptism is part of the Christian faith as is the trinity and divinity of Christ that many fundamentalists reject!
Titus 3:5 is baptism!
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Same as Jn 3:5
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
canjot enter on your own by faith alone, no do it yo-self religion / covenant / or kingdom
2 pet 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
It is the apostolic church the ministers the grace of initiation into the new covenant by faith and baptism!
Thanks
The thief don’t qualify cos the new covenant is not in effect till the death of Jesus heb 9:17
The other thief also said “save us”? What about him?
Thanks
And he did so by the baptism of repentance!
daninthelionsden
Member
Asking for informational purposes. Did John bring the act of baptism out from being a sort of Temple practice to the masses?
Also, I was raised Episcopalian and therefore was baptized as an infant, but as I grew into adulthood, felt an overwhelming desire to be baptized as an adult. I have come to believe baptism to be an act of the adult Christian and not child's play. What say you? Thank you.
The temple did have a purification ritual you can see it in Jn 2:6
You can only be baptized once eph 4:5
Yes infant baptism see below
Infant Baptism / baptism
Acts 2:38-39 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Promise is to you’re children! Vs 39
This promise made in ez 36
A promise from God is a sacred oath, and a sacred oath is a sacrament!
Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.
Acts 16:15 entire household baptized! Does not say adults only or except infants!
Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness.
(It does not say adults only or except infants!)
(Scripture does not say anywhere “do not baptized infants”)
Baptism is the Christian initiation sacrament of the new covenant for all men. Matt 28:19 Jn 1:29 Jn 3:16
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (It does not say except infants!) (but it does say “all”)!
Lk 1:10-11 all people including infants
Thee faith is required for adult baptism.
Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38
If it’s not possible (as in the case of infants) it’s not required.
But the promise of the parents to raise and educate the child in the faith is required, then the child is confirmed in thee faith at the age of reason.
Repentance is required for adult baptism. Acts 2:38
If there is no personal sin to repent of (as in the case of infants) then it’s not required.
Acts 2:38-39 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Promise is to you’re children! Vs 39
This promise made in ez 36
A promise from God is a sacred oath, and a sacred oath is a sacrament!
Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.
Acts 16:15 entire household baptized! Does not say adults only or except infants!
Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness.
(It does not say adults only or except infants!)
(Scripture does not say anywhere “do not baptized infants”)
Baptism is the Christian initiation sacrament of the new covenant for all men. Matt 28:19 Jn 1:29 Jn 3:16
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (It does not say except infants!) (but it does say “all”)!
Lk 1:10-11 all people including infants
Thee faith is required for adult baptism.
Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38
If it’s not possible (as in the case of infants) it’s not required.
But the promise of the parents to raise and educate the child in the faith is required, then the child is confirmed in thee faith at the age of reason.
Repentance is required for adult baptism. Acts 2:38
If there is no personal sin to repent of (as in the case of infants) then it’s not required.
Iconoclast
Member
This passage says nothing about good works
Iconoclast
Member
These passages say nothing about infant baptism, at all.
Iconoclast
Member
The promise is not speaking of Infant baptism.Water baptism does not save.
they have the same promise, if they believe they also can be saved.
No...The promise is the promise of the Covenant of Grace
This also deals with the work of the Spirit in new birth, not water baptism
Nicodemus was a jew, who did not teach Christian Baptism, this is RC.nonsense.
Does not say infants were there.
Not one verse baptism infants
No. We are not made into Christians by works that we do, water baptism is us doing something.
This is not water baptism.Where does it mention water at all?
All infants are not saved. If they were, they would grow up already saved, they do not. Mafia people were sprinkled as infants. It did not save any of them.
Another invented anti scriptural idea.
Complete nonsense.
Complete unbiblical fantasy, All died in Adam.
Iconoclast
Member
No...
Faith alone now includes humility?
Faith alone but not alone?
Everything is included in faith alone!
But it’s not works??$
Iconoclast
Member
Chapter 16Of Good Works
1 Good works are only such as God hath a commanded in his Holy Word, and not such as without the warrant thereof are devised by men out of blind zeal, or upon any pretence of good intentions. (Mic 6:8; Heb 13:21; b Mat 15:9; Isa 29:13)
2 These good works, done in obedience to God’s commandments,
are the fruits and evidences of a true and lively faith;
and by them believers manifest their thankfulness,
strengthen their assurance,
edify their brethren,
adorn the profession of the gospel,
stop the mouths of the adversaries, and glorify God, whose workmanship they are,
created in Christ Jesus thereunto,
that having their fruit unto holiness they may have the end eternal life.( Jam 2:18,22; Psa 116:12-13; e 1Jo 2:3,5; 2Pe 1:5-11; f Mat 5:16; g 1Ti 6:1; 1Pe 2:15; Phi 1:11; Eph 2:10; I Rom 6:22)
3 Their ability to do good works is not at all of themselves, but wholly from the Spirit of Christ; and that they may be enabled thereunto, besides the graces they have already received, there is necessary and actual influence of the same Holy Spirit, to work in them to will and to do of his good pleasure; yet they are not hereupon to grow negligent, as if they were not bound to perform any duty, unless upon a special motion of the Spirit, but they ought to be diligent in stirring up the grace of God that is in them.( Joh 15:4-5; l 2Co 3:5; Phi 2:13; Phi 2:12; Heb 6:11-12; Isa 64:7)
4 They who in their obedience attain to the greatest height which is possible in this life, are so far from being able to supererogate, and to do more than God requires, as that they fall short of much which in duty they are bound to do. (Job 9:2-3; Gal 5:17; Luk 17:10)
5 We cannot by our best works merit pardon of sin or eternal life at the hand of God, by reason of the great disproportion that is between them and the glory to come, and the infinite distance that is between us and God, whom by them we can neither profit nor satisfy for the debt of our former sins; but when we have done all we can, we have done but our duty, and are unprofitable servants; and because as they are good they proceed from his Spirit, and as they are wrought by us they are defiled and mixed with so much weakness and imperfection, that they cannot endure the severity of God’s punishment.(o Rom 3:20; Eph 2:8-9; Rom 4:6; Gal 5:22-23; Isa 64:6; Psa 143:2)
6 Yet notwithstanding the persons of believers being accepted through Christ, their good works also are accepted in him; not as though they were in this life wholly un-blameable and unreprovable in God’s sight, but that he, looking upon them in his Son, is pleased to accept and reward that which is sincere, although accompanied with many weaknesses and imperfections.( Eph 1:6; 1Pe 2:5; s Mat 25:21,23; Heb 6:10)
7 Works done by unregenerate men, although for the matter of them they may be things which God commands, and of good use both to themselves and others; yet because they proceed not from a heart purified by faith, nor are done in a right manner according to the Word, nor to a right end, the glory of God, they are therefore sinful, and cannot please God, nor make a man meet to receive grace from God, and yet their neglect of them is more sinful and a displeasing to God. (2Ki 10:30; 1Ki 21:27,29; Gen 4:5; Heb 11:4,6; 1Co 13:1; Mat 6:2,5; Amo 5:21-22; Rom 9:16; Ti 3:5; Job 21:14-15; Mat 25:41-43
1 Good works are only such as God hath a commanded in his Holy Word, and not such as without the warrant thereof are devised by men out of blind zeal, or upon any pretence of good intentions. (Mic 6:8; Heb 13:21; b Mat 15:9; Isa 29:13)
2 These good works, done in obedience to God’s commandments,
are the fruits and evidences of a true and lively faith;
and by them believers manifest their thankfulness,
strengthen their assurance,
edify their brethren,
adorn the profession of the gospel,
stop the mouths of the adversaries, and glorify God, whose workmanship they are,
created in Christ Jesus thereunto,
that having their fruit unto holiness they may have the end eternal life.( Jam 2:18,22; Psa 116:12-13; e 1Jo 2:3,5; 2Pe 1:5-11; f Mat 5:16; g 1Ti 6:1; 1Pe 2:15; Phi 1:11; Eph 2:10; I Rom 6:22)
3 Their ability to do good works is not at all of themselves, but wholly from the Spirit of Christ; and that they may be enabled thereunto, besides the graces they have already received, there is necessary and actual influence of the same Holy Spirit, to work in them to will and to do of his good pleasure; yet they are not hereupon to grow negligent, as if they were not bound to perform any duty, unless upon a special motion of the Spirit, but they ought to be diligent in stirring up the grace of God that is in them.( Joh 15:4-5; l 2Co 3:5; Phi 2:13; Phi 2:12; Heb 6:11-12; Isa 64:7)
4 They who in their obedience attain to the greatest height which is possible in this life, are so far from being able to supererogate, and to do more than God requires, as that they fall short of much which in duty they are bound to do. (Job 9:2-3; Gal 5:17; Luk 17:10)
5 We cannot by our best works merit pardon of sin or eternal life at the hand of God, by reason of the great disproportion that is between them and the glory to come, and the infinite distance that is between us and God, whom by them we can neither profit nor satisfy for the debt of our former sins; but when we have done all we can, we have done but our duty, and are unprofitable servants; and because as they are good they proceed from his Spirit, and as they are wrought by us they are defiled and mixed with so much weakness and imperfection, that they cannot endure the severity of God’s punishment.(o Rom 3:20; Eph 2:8-9; Rom 4:6; Gal 5:22-23; Isa 64:6; Psa 143:2)
6 Yet notwithstanding the persons of believers being accepted through Christ, their good works also are accepted in him; not as though they were in this life wholly un-blameable and unreprovable in God’s sight, but that he, looking upon them in his Son, is pleased to accept and reward that which is sincere, although accompanied with many weaknesses and imperfections.( Eph 1:6; 1Pe 2:5; s Mat 25:21,23; Heb 6:10)
7 Works done by unregenerate men, although for the matter of them they may be things which God commands, and of good use both to themselves and others; yet because they proceed not from a heart purified by faith, nor are done in a right manner according to the Word, nor to a right end, the glory of God, they are therefore sinful, and cannot please God, nor make a man meet to receive grace from God, and yet their neglect of them is more sinful and a displeasing to God. (2Ki 10:30; 1Ki 21:27,29; Gen 4:5; Heb 11:4,6; 1Co 13:1; Mat 6:2,5; Amo 5:21-22; Rom 9:16; Ti 3:5; Job 21:14-15; Mat 25:41-43
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Iconoclast
Member
That is an important discussion, but it is not found in the Mt.18 passage you offered.
I know Protestant fundamentalists incur spiritual blindness but I must ask, are also physically blind?
Acts 2:38-39 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Promise is to you’re children! Vs 39
Infants are children?
Thanks
Corinth77777
Member
My definition of faith is believing in someone or something with intent to act.
Question for the rest is what is the difference between
Belief
Faith
And
Trust
But I do like more, "walking in what you say you believe"
And the first walk usually begins in the mind.
So I get what people are saying that believe that way.
No one is saying that God did not create mankind and give Him a brain to use.
Nor is anyone saying that God is not the one that made man come alive by giving us His word...and etc other stuff like that.
What I believe people are saying in reguards to faith alone
Is they still have to believe. And there is no earned works based on their natural ability that have passed them to being quickened together with Christ but belief in who Jesus is.
Therefore belief alone in Jesus saves apart from trying to merit salvation by ones natural abilities to be saved.
For it is belief in who Jesus is with the intent to act that we receive His Spirit.
We know that if God did not create man, send His son, etc that we could not believe...
But it's man's belief alone, given by God that saves.
As for Water baptism for Salvation we must remember this if you see it in scripture of course.
That who is the man that can have His sins washed away but that He first believe in the one that can wash them away.
Now is it true that when man truly believes who Jesus is in his heart with the intent to follow He receives the Spirit?
If so then what has happened to Him? He has passed from death to life.
Could a man make a choice to committ (water baptism) if He did not believe?
Now lets see if people are given the Spirit...which
opps
I was writing this earlier and phone died...I guess it didnt erase
Because you were not faithful unto death Christ was.
And I explained how the other view thinks.
No what I said is your church doctrine is what you seem to put trust in by how you treated me.
Trust in Jesus Christ changes peoples
hearts.It does not have a demeanor of boasting.
Trusting a doctrinenal system as I believe you do brings about a boastful attitude because if people do not see things from your system of beliefs you think they are damn to hell.
That is one reason salvation is found only in Jesus.
What you are exemplifying is Phariseesic behavior
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I don't reject water baptism. But we are saved by grace through faith.
A righteousness credited by God that is from first to last by faith.
Those that do not believe are those condemned.
As has been shown you can be saved apart from water baptism but not apart from faith. As in those who "believe in their hearts" and confess with their mouths
Romans 1:17—In the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.
What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness." Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the "wicked," his faith is credited as righteousness.
The importance is in the faith.
to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’
So what is your minimum, water baptism with faith? or are you adding more to that?
Jesus preached to the spirits in prison. Those who were judged according to the flesh for wickedness in ancient times so they might live according to their spirit. (grace)
I was baptized as a infant so neither faith nor repentance applied. I did not receive the Spirit at that time but later when I understood enough to ask the one I believe in.