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Abomination of Desolation in 70AD

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Hope of glory

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In Mark's account of the olivet discourse in Mark 13, we find strong contextual evidence which points to a 70AD fulfillment of the AOD and Jesus' "coming in the clouds".

Mark 13:1-4 "And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here?
And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings,? There shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
And as he sat upon the mount of olives over against the temple, Peter James and John and Andrew asked Jim privately.
Tell us, when shall these things be, and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?

Notice that the disciples questions are ONLY about Jerusalems destruction and NOT about the "end of the age" as in Math.24.

"When shall these things be...."
That is, when shall every stone be thrown down (when will Jerusalem be destroyed)?
"...What shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?"
That is, what will signify that Jerusalems destruction is about to take place?

I submit to you that the answers to these questions are found in verses 14 and 30

The "time" when Jerusalem was destroyed was within "that (this) generation" (v30)
"...this generation shall not pass until all these things be done"

The "sign" which signified this destruction was immenent was SEEING the AOD (v14)
"But when YOU shall see the AOD.....then let them that be in Judea flee into the mountains"

The fact that Jesus says that the disciples would SEE the AOD and SEE his "coming in the
clouds" in the context of answering their questions about Jerusalems destruction is very significant.

Powerful contextual evidence indeed that the AOD and Jesus' coming in the clouds were connected to and fulfilled by 70ad

Question: Since the disciples only asked questions about a first century event (Jerusalems destruction), why would Jesus mention the "SEEING" of the AOD and his "coming in the clouds" as part of his answer?

Hope of glory
 
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JLB

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Powerful contextual evidence indeed that the AOD and Jesus' coming in the clouds were connected to and fulfilled by 70ad

26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; - 33 AD

And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined. - 70 AD


27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate."

When did the 70th week occur?


JLB
 

JLB

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Understanding from Daniel 12 -

1 "At that time Michael shall stand up, The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people; And there shall be a time of trouble, Such as never was since there was a nation, Even to that time. And at that time your people shall be delivered, Every one who is found written in the book.

2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 Those who are wise shall shine Like the brightness of the firmament, And those who turn many to righteousness Like the stars forever and ever. 4 "But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase."


This time of trouble is associated with the time of the end, the resurrection, as well as world travel and the increase of knowledge.

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12 Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days. 13 But you, go your way till the end; for you shall rest, and will arise to your inheritance at the end of the days."


The end of the age, and the resurrection of the dead, is associated with this phrase Abomination of Desolation.


JLB
 

Hope of glory

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Understanding from Daniel 12 -

1 "At that time Michael shall stand up, The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people; And there shall be a time of trouble, Such as never was since there was a nation, Even to that time. And at that time your people shall be delivered, Every one who is found written in the book.

2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 Those who are wise shall shine Like the brightness of the firmament, And those who turn many to righteousness Like the stars forever and ever. 4 "But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase."


This time of trouble is associated with the time of the end, the resurrection, as well as world travel and the increase of knowledge.

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12 Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days. 13
But you, go your way till the end; for you shall rest, and will arise to your inheritance at the end of the days."


The end of the age, and the resurrection of the dead, is associated with this phrase Abomination of Desolation.

JLB
JLB, again I will address your post, even though you continually avoid my simple questions.
We have already been over thus but I will recap.
You asked "When did the 70th week occur?"

Answer: The seventieth week occurred immediately after the previous 69 weeks (obviously).
70th week (27-34ad).
Daniels prophecy was for 490 years with NO GAPS, therefore 70ad does not fit into the 70th week, but is mentioned in the prophecy as the "result" of the 70 weeks being fulfilled
The "he" in verse 27 of Dan.9 is Messiah not some imaginary antichrist
The "prince to come" in verse 26 of Dan.9 was Titus, not some imaginary antichrist
Jesus said his first century disciples would SEE the AOD (Math.24:15, Mark 13:14)
Jesus said the AOD would be fulfilled before his contemporary generation passed away (Math.24:34, Mark 13:30)
Dan.12 deals with the "first resurrection" (I have been resurrected, how about you), not the bodily resurrection as the Lords coming. (the resurrection is not the focus of this thread, please stay on topic, we really need to deal with one topic)

Learn this: The old testament does not interpret the new. (You try and make Daniel interpret Jesus' words)
Rather, the new testent interprets the old through the work of the cross. You must allow Jesus and the apostles to interpret Daniel and others.

I have started this thread based on powerful contextual evidence from Mark 13 that the AOD and Jesus' coming in the clouds were connected to and fulfilled by 70ad.

Below is my first question to you which futurists have avoided for obvious reasons. JLB, follow the truth, wherever it may lead. Most of us started as futurists, but the way of truth does not go down the "futurist path".

Question: Since the disciples only asked questions about a first century event (Jerusalems destruction), why would Jesus mention the "SEEING" of the AOD and his "coming in the clouds" as part of his answer?
 
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theword

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Jesus understood all the prophecies because of the knowledge He possessed. He knew all about the "Last Day" of this first age that still hasn't happened yet.

Here's what Jesus supposedly testified to;
Matthew 24
14: And this gospel of the kingdom will be preachedthroughout the whole world, as a testimony to all nations; and then the endwill come.

Matthew 5
17: "Think not that I have come to abolish the law and theprophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them.
18: For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, nota dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.

Here are a few prophecies that Jesus understood;

Isaiah 24
18: He who flees at the sound of the terror shall fall into the pit; and he whoclimbs out of the pit shall be caught in the snare.
For the windows of heaven are opened, andthe foundations of the earth tremble.

19:
The earth is utterlybroken, the earth is rent asunder, the earth is violently shaken.

20:
The earth staggers like adrunken man, it sways like a hut;
its transgression lies heavy upon it, and it falls, and will notrise again.


Isaiah 66
15: "For behold, the LORDwill come in fire, and his chariots like the stormwind, to render hisanger in fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
16: For by fire will the LORD execute judgment, and byhis sword, upon all flesh; and those slain by the LORD shall be many.

Ezekiel 38
19: For in my jealousy and in my blazing wrath I declare, On that day there shall be a great shaking in the land ofIsrael;
20: the fish of the sea, and the birds of the air, and the beasts of the field,and all creeping things that creep on the ground, and allthe men that are upon the face of the earth, shall quake at my presence, andthe mountains shall be thrown down, and the cliffs shall fall, and every wallshall tumble to the ground.

2 Peter 3
10: But the day of the Lord will come like a thief,and then the heavens will pass away with a loud noise,and the elements will be dissolved with fire, and the earth and the works thatare upon it will be burned up.
11: Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of persons oughtyou to be in lives of holiness and godliness,
12: waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be kindled and dissolved, and the elementswill melt with fire!
13: But according to his promise we wait for newheavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.
There are many more prophecies that show the desolation of this world we're living in right now. Jesus spoke about Jerusalem being destroyed but that wasn't the end of this age He knew about.




 
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theword

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Everything you see in this world was built with human hands and considered an idol or false gods. The "beast" was God's plan to get His people to build things without them knowing who He was. It was very important that man would build the latest technology today to help God's last saint to understand how He created everything. Now we know how God created us so we can end this age and go on to the next.

edited

There's a lot more to this knowledge I have but this should get your attention if you're a true believer.
 
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theword

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It appears that God made you a believer so here's my email in case I get booted out of here today.



I can teach you anything you want to know until there's nothing else for you to learn.
 
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theword

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I sent you a private message. I won't be able to teach you anything in this forum because of an "unbeliever" in here. Have a good day my new friend.
 

Deborah13

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But not a single scripture. Hmm.
Yes, no Scripture, God has given us what we need. It is all in His Word, the Bible, we just need to prayerfully seek it out.

There is no gospel other than the gospel that the apostles taught.

Cults entice people in, not revealing their true source or beliefs. I am of the opinion that if one is afraid to share their beliefs then they know they are very far away from God's Word.

So if this man has something truly from God he will not be afraid to share it here among fellow Christians.

You were very wise to ask for supporting Scriptures.
 

JLB

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You asked "When did the 70th week occur?" Answer: The seventieth week occurred immediately after the previous 69 weeks (obviously). 70th week (27-34ad).
So there you have it.

If the 70th week ended in 34 AD, the the Abomination of Desolation has nothing to do with 70 AD.

Matthew 24, therefore has nothing to do with 70 AD!


Thanks JLB
 

Deborah13

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You asked "When did the 70th week occur?" Answer: The seventieth week occurred immediately after the previous 69 weeks (obviously). 70th week (27-34ad).
So there you have it.

If the 70th week ended in 34 AD, the the Abomination of Desolation has nothing to do with 70 AD.

Matthew 24, therefore has nothing to do with 70 AD!


Thanks JLB
I keep seeing that word 'determined', decided, put in motion even. When they crucified Jesus and then stoned Stephen they sealed their fate. They fulfilled the prophecy that had been given by their actions and set the wheels in motion for the destruction of the temple.
 

Hope of glory

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You asked "When did the 70th week occur?" Answer: The seventieth week occurred immediately after the previous 69 weeks (obviously). 70th week (27-34ad).
So there you have it.
If the 70th week ended in 34 AD, the the Abomination of Desolation has nothing to do with 70 AD.

Matthew 24, therefore has nothing to do with 70 AD!


Thanks JLB
JLB, the AOD was fulfilled in 70ad
The 70th week was fulfilled by 34ad not in 70ad
Mathew 24 has everything to do with 70ad
Mathew 24 has everything to do with the AOD

JLB, stop goofing around and answer my question regarding Mark 13. You are avoiding Mark for obvious reasons.
Here it is again, it's time to get serious.

Question: Since the disciples only asked questions about a first century event (Jerusalems destruction), why would Jesus mention the "SEEING" of the AOD and his "coming in the clouds" as part of his answer?

Thanks,
Hope of glory
 

Hope of glory

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You asked "When did the 70th week occur?" Answer: The seventieth week occurred immediately after the previous 69 weeks (obviously). 70th week (27-34ad).
So there you have it.

If the 70th week ended in 34 AD, the the Abomination of Desolation has nothing to do with 70 AD.

Matthew 24, therefore has nothing to do with 70 AD!


Thanks JLB
I keep seeing that word 'determined', decided, put in motion even. When they crucified Jesus and then stoned Stephen they sealed their fate. They fulfilled the prophecy that had been given by their actions and set the wheels in motion for the destruction of the temple.
AMEN!
 

Sinthesis

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Dan 9:27 - And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Abominations is plural. There is no single abomination for which 'it' is made desolate. Further, 'it' is desolate until the consummation, so desolation is not its final state. Desolation describes a spiritual quality which invites the pouring out of God's judgement.
 

JLB

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I keep seeing that word 'determined', decided, put in motion even. When they crucified Jesus and then stoned Stephen they sealed their fate. They fulfilled the prophecy that had been given by their actions and set the wheels in motion for the destruction of the temple.
26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

... And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

This is associated with the year 70 AD, and no relationship to the 70th week.

In what year are you claiming the 70th week occurred?The others are claiming the 70th week happened right after the 69th, and occurred in 34 AD, which is almost 40 years before the year 70 AD.

How is it you "connect" the 70th week and the "abomination of desolation" with 70 AD, if you claim it took place in 34 AD?


27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate."

JLB
 

JLB

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Dan 9:27 - And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Abominations is plural. There is no single abomination for which 'it' is made desolate. Further, 'it' is desolate until the consummation, so desolation is not its final state. Desolation describes a spiritual quality which invites the pouring out of God's judgement.

So, whats your point?

What year are you claiming the 70th week occured.

When are you claiming that the prince who is to come, "confirmed" a 7 year covenant with many?


JLB
 
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Elijah674

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I sent you a private message. I won't be able to teach you anything in this forum because of an "unbeliever" in here. Have a good day my new friend.
What kind of folks are you allowing on here?:chin

--Elijah
 

Deborah13

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How is it you "connect" the 70th week and the "abomination of desolation" with 70 AD, if you claim it took place in 34 AD?
That's an excellent question. I'd like to hear this too.
Young's Literal Translation (of the greek) about 1889 Young wrote his commentary to this translation. Young was a Greek language scholar.

Daniel 9:25-27
25. And thou dost know, and dost consider wisely, from the going forth of the word to restore and to build Jerusalem till Messiah the Leader is seven weeks, and sixty and two weeks: the broad place hath been built again, and the rampart, even in the distress of the times.

26. And after the sixty and two weeks, cut off is Messiah, and the city and the holy place are not his, the Leader who hath come doth destroy the people; and its end is with a flood, and till the end is war, determined are desolations.

27. And he hath strengthened a covenant with many -- one week, and in the midst of the week he causeth sacrifice and present to cease, and by the wing of abominations he is making desolate, even till the consummation, and that which is determined is poured on the desolate one.'



When Jesus died on the cross He v27 (causeth) sacrifice and present (offering) to cease and determined desolation on the city and the holy place (the temple).

Matthew 23:37-38
37 'Jerusalem, Jerusalem, that art killing the prophets, and stoning those sent unto thee, how often did I will to gather thy children together, as a hen doth gather her own chickens under the wings, and ye did not will

38 Lo, left desolate to you is your house;

Here Jesus tells them that the temple is desolate. Like spiritually dead.
In Matthew 24 - Jesus tells the apostles that the temple will be destroyed. "not one stone will be left upon another" (para)

Maybe you remember in Hebrews where it says the law is fading or passing away or would soon pass away? Hebrews was written not too long before the temple and city was destroyed.

Daniel 9:27 says it is determined, even till the consummation. When? The 70th week approx. 34 AD. Jesus' ministry was 3 1/2 yrs. then the apostles continued to preach to the Jews, 3 1/2 yrs. after the cross, the Jews stoned Stephen (see Acts). Matt. 23 above 'stoning those sent unto thee'
This is the end of the 70th week. But remember other things were determined, even till the consummation. The sacrifices did not stop in the temple until the temple was destroyed. So when did the Messiah CAUSE the sacrifice to cease in at the cross but they didn't physically stop until 70 AD. But He cause it at the cross. He also determined what would happen to the city and temple.
From the beginning of Jesus' ministry to the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in 70 AD, is guess what 40 yrs.
You remember that when God brought the Hebrew children out of slavery in Egypt they wandered in the desert for 40 yrs. only 2 men over 19 yrs. old actually entered the Promised Land. From bondage to freedom.
I see the same thing here. The Jews were in bondage to the Law, sacrifices, etc. Jesus died to remove the burden or slavery and gave liberty in Christ.
He gave them time to change, and as someone else said, for the old to die off.
Jesus told the apostles to flee the city, the Christians fled to a town called Pella. The Jews had started fighting the Romans and according to Josephus, even each other.

Sorry this is such a long post!! Just because an owner agrees to have you install their plumbing/heating and it is all determined at the time, that job may not start for several months. But it has been determined right down until the consummation of the work.
 

turnorburn

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Hi guys mind if i join the conversation :) has this anything to do with Antichrist and a peace deal with Israel that's supposed to last seven years..

tob
 
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