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Andy Atheist On Human Free Will.

Quantrill

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How in the world could you get to that conclusion from this? It is a free will choice to not take God out of the equation.

Story. A long time ago, I was about where you are in my walk and I asked some guy basically the same question you asked about saving the kids. He answered that you save yourself because you can make more kids. :rolleyes

Now then, I could be that guy if I chose to. But I do not have to be that guy. I can choose to not be that guy. To understand that life (God) deals us impossible circumstances sometimes. God allows these things so we might become desperate and turn to Him, crying out for help.

Scripture tells us plainly that the Lord God is not slack in His promises. But it may seem like a spooky thing to put dire circumstances into the hands of an unseen entity, even many professing Christians. So many, including you would seem to lean towards taking the circumstances upon themselves and dealing with the circumstance on their own, and the way you describe your scenario one of the children will die. Scripture says, Ye have not because you ask not.

Hear wisdom Brother...Life is 10% what it deals you in the cards and 90% how you react to it. So if you do not seek first the Kingdom of God, you would be disallowing the Kingdom of God to intervene on your behalf in situations wherein you need some help.

If you want to experience divine intervention and witness the miraculous, then you have to get out of the boat. Remember in scripture when Peter got out of the boat and walked on water? That was only possible because he got out of the boat. Sure, he seen the big waves and started to sink, freaked out and said Lord save me!...and the Lord did save him. Peter asked, Peter received.

That's how this planet works Brother. He put us here with free will and He most certainly will not violate our free will. So if you choose to save one child on your own God will let you do that. Or you can simply pray Him and He will jump at the chance to bless you and save everyone involved. It's your choice. Your free will.
No. You err first of all in making the man a believer in the scenario. I never said he was a believer. You err in bringing God in the picture as far as 'will' goes. You err in assuming even if the man is a believer, God will save the other child. You don't know that. God doesn't always do that.

The point is, the man has to choose which child he will save. So which one is it? The boy or the girl? Which 'will' he choose.

If the man chooses the boy, is it his will that the girl drown? Of course not. But his will is not free. His will is pressured to make a choice. A choice that goes against what he would 'will' if his will were free. But his will isn't free.

Only God's will is free.

Quantrill
 

Edward

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No. You err first of all in making the man a believer in the scenario. I never said he was a believer. You err in bringing God in the picture as far as 'will' goes. You err in assuming even if the man is a believer, God will save the other child. You don't know that. God doesn't always do that.

The point is, the man has to choose which child he will save. So which one is it? The boy or the girl? Which 'will' he choose.

If the man chooses the boy, is it his will that the girl drown? Of course not. But his will is not free. His will is pressured to make a choice. A choice that goes against what he would 'will' if his will were free. But his will isn't free.

Only God's will is free.

Quantrill
You're right that God doesn't always save the childs (flesh) life. Sometimes He just takes them to be with Him which is really saving them. It is not God's will that any should perish (John 3:16) so if there is a death then it's a good chance that, another will is involved. A free will. Man's.

I didn't err in making the man a believer. You prescribed me into the scenario...what would I do if this circumstance arose? How would I react? Well, I am a believer. If the other man is not a believer, that would be his error.

Maybe you should read the Lord's word and pray about this and certainly you will grow thereby. Everything we do is our free will. Why would God say that the power of life and death are in the tongue (Proverbs 18:21) if man did not have a free will? If man has no free will and only God does then God is responsible for all sin, and that just ain't so. What you're saying you believe contradicts scripture. If you don't believe me, believe His Word.
 

Hawkins

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Freewill simply means one makes a decision by himself but under influence. There is no environment ever planned to be made without influence, as especially humans are creatures of a society. Everyone is making a free decision but not without influence. That's actually why Eden is made of God, humans and angels. Earth is made of God, humans and angels. The future Heaven is also made of God, humans and angels with them interacting with each other. In this case, freewill simply means "you did have a choice, and you made up your mind". A forced will means, "the choice is delusional, you don't actually have one".

Freewill is thus like a processor processing through a list of options to pick up an outcome but with influence.
 

Quantrill

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Freewill simply means one makes a decision by himself but under influence. There is no environment ever planned to be made without influence, as especially humans are creatures of a society. Everyone is making a free decision but not without influence. That's actually why Eden is made of God, humans and angels. Earth is made of God, humans and angels. The future Heaven is also made of God, humans and angels with them interacting with each other. In this case, freewill simply means "you did have a choice, and you made up your mind". A forced will means, "the choice is delusional, you don't actually have one".

Freewill is thus like a processor processing through a list of options to pick up an outcome but with influence.
For man there is no environment without influence. That is why God alone has free will. Man just has a will.

Quantrill
 

Hawkins

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For man there is no environment without influence. That is why God alone has free will. Man just has a will.

Quantrill
Freewill as a terms means we have freewill, it means we do have a choice to choose from by our own will. Others can only influence you but incapable of making that choice for you, or else it becomes a forced decision. Freewill is about how we come to such a decision which is not a forced one.
 

Quantrill

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Freewill as a terms means we have freewill, it means we do have a choice to choose from by our own will. Others can only influence you but incapable of making that choice for you, or else it becomes a forced decision. Freewill is about how we come to such a decision which is a forced one.
That we have a 'will' means we do have a choice. Because there is outside influence upon our will, it isn't free. Only God has free will.

Quantrill
 

Hawkins

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That we have a 'will' means we do have a choice. Because there is outside influence upon our will, it isn't free. Only God has free will.

Quantrill
Not necessary. You can delegate others to have a decision for you. It lies in your will to do so, but we can't say that the decision made is by your freewill. If you don't mind the results then any outcome is within your will, but not every outcome is by your freewill, as you didn't make the choice yourself.
 
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Quantrill

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Not necessary. You can delegate others to have a decision for you. It lies in your will to do so, but we can't say that the decision made is by your freewill. If you don't mind the results then any outcome is within your will, but not every outcome is by your freewill, as you didn't make the choice yourself.
What's not necessary?

What does 'delegation' have to do with it?

I am saying any decision you make is not by free will. It is by your will. But , your will is not free.

Only God has 'free will'.

Quantrill
 

Prycejosh1987

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Andy Atheist Wrote:
"If the Supreme Being is all knowledgeable (Omniscience)
then it follows that if the Supreme Being knows today,
what action I will take tomorrow and the Supreme Being's
knowledge is infallible, then I have no choice tomorrow
to do anything other than to make the choice that the
Supreme Being knew I would choose."
___Andy Atheist
It goes to show you and i how much spiritual knowledge of God atheists have. Not much. God knows everything but he does not tamper with peoples choices, they make their own choices, and God works with it knowing everything. For example, a kid knows he has school tomorrow, he goes to school if the circumstances are right, and the parent knew everything. It doesnt mean the parent changes what he will do for the kid who is getting ready to go to school the next day. It all depends on circumstances, and God can change circumstances.
 
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