[_ Old Earth _] Evolution's Evil Exposed

[bjdea1]

I have a question to ask.

If you believe in evolution, in natural selection, in the way the strongest dominate and reproduces more than the weak, to improve a species over time.

Ok then if you really believe this - why not go now and kill every person that has a genetic defect and purify the human species and advance our evolution thousands of years ahead - rather than waiting for those weak gene 'ed people to die off naturally. Isn't this the best thing for the human species? Well apparently Hitler thought so, he tried to create a Super race and he tried to purify the german race by killing the Jews. Evolution and similar ideas are EVIL and Satan uses them as tools to deceive men into doing great evil - taking away all conscience and making it purely scientific, blinding a man to morality and Love.

Evolution has NO morality whatsoever. See it for what it is - Satans tool to deceive men into doing evil.

 

[saved4life]

Ok then if you really believe this - why not go now and kill every person that has a genetic defect and purify the human species and advance our evolution thousands of years ahead - rather than waiting for those weak gene 'ed people to die off naturally. Isn't this the best thing for the human species?

When supposed-Christians say things like this the only thing that they expose is their own evil thinking.

They imply that the only reason to be moral is because God says you have to. It really is sickening.

 

[bjdea1]

No No No

No No No - Not At All

Your words are twisting this.

I am pointing out Evolution does not account for Morality AT ALL - ONLY the BIBLE explains morality, why we feel love, why there is good and evil.

Evolution takes away a mans heart, soul and conscience. It says there is no God - so then what reason is their not to sin? I am using an argument to make it obvious Evolution can't be right because its logic if followed through would lead to evil... and many times has.

Are you a christian saved4life? How could you make such a reply?

 

[saved4life]

Re: No No No

No No No - Not At All

Your words are twisting this.

I am pointing out Evolution does not account for Morality AT ALL - ONLY the BIBLE explains morality, why we feel love, why there is good and evil.

Are you a christian saved4life? How could you make such a reply?

Sorry for the harsh reply but I'm getting tired of that response from some Christians. They say things like, "Well, if you don't believe in a God why don't you just kill, steal, rape, etc." And they're serious!

Sorry.

No, I'm not a Christian, but I don't kill, steal, or rape any more than the average one.

BTW, biology isn't supposed to deal with morality. Philosophy and Ethics does. But biology does have theories about the nature of love and other such bonds.

 

[bjdea1]

Hmmm

So you are sick of an argument that you don't like hearing?

Probably because its a good one. I'd question myself if I were you are ask myself - "why am I against christian beliefs and dislike them so much"? I mean I feel you could have the Lord Himself come to you and perform a dozen miracles in front of you and you would still argue against him.

what is with you? Why do you kick against God all the time? I just don't get it...so many people are like this...why? You really don't want to believe? You really have something against christians? Its like I'm holding up an apple in front of you and your saying its a lemon.... ah dear ... perplexing.

 

[saved4life]

So you are sick of an argument that you don't like hearing?

Asking a person why they don't commit horrible crimes if they don't believe in God is a good argument? :-?

 

[saved4life]

I mean I feel you could have the Lord Himself come to you and perform a dozen miracles in front of you and you would still argue against him.

ha...if you can arrange that, I'll be happy to say he exists...but I'd have to ask him directly if any of that Bible business is true. The existence of a God and the claims of the Bible are two totally different things...that's why there are so many different religions.

 

[bjdea1]

One step back

saved4life.... hey you are free to believe what you wish... I apologise if I offended you. I would like to get to know you better before I continue this conversation. My aim here is not to make an enemy of you...no that would be the last thing I want...

My point is to try to show that Evolution is not a good influence. But hey if you are against this argument - as I believe you are - well hey I haven't been right about everything in my life and at times it took a few patient people to wait till I became a little more accomodating. Perhaps I should wait and discuss this with you another time.

Just a question where are you from and roughly how old are you? I'm 29 living in Melbourne , Australia.

 

[saved4life]

No apology necessary. It's all just conversing... 8)

I'm 25 in the U.S.

 

[victorhadin]

My two penny's worth:

Evolution, as a process, is indeed 100% without the concept of morality as a guide. It is purely a matter of one-upmanship and blind selection in a brutally changing environment. A species can be marvelously adapted to a niche, only to have that niche wiped out. A species can thrive by eating the young of another. A species can grow and multiply and multiply until every available competitor in it's region is extinguished.
-Or everyone can get unlucky and get caught in a mass-extinction event. -Just one of the many dice rolls the cosmos and our own fragile ecosystem can give us.

No; evolution as a concept is completely amoral.




-But wait. I didn't say 'immoral', -I said 'amoral'. Evolution has no sideline in morality because morality has nothing to do with evolution (save, to an extent, for the success of social species like our good selves), not because it is intrinsically evil.

The theory of evolution is not a life-defining dogma like, if you will excuse me, the christian faith is. It is simply a theory which goes towards explaining the origin and changing nature of species, nothing more.

It isn't even necessarily opposed to religion, either. A great many faiths have room in their definition to encompass and accept the evolution of species as a concept.

Now if a nutcase, like Hitler, uses ideas of racial superiority to further their own goals, then that is distorting the whole idea. Jewish and 'aryan' people are part of the same species; they don't even compete per se, but interact, in the proper societies. Indeed it could be argued that racial genocide weakens our species as a whole, cutting down on it's numbers.

The fact is that evolution isn't intended to be a foundation of a moral code, but simply a scientific model. Using it as a bedrock of a moral code would be taking just the same leap of absurdity as if I went cannoning around a busy street bumping into people for the sake of the conservation of momentum.

But to get to the central point:

Evolution takes away a mans heart, soul and conscience. It says there is no God - so then what reason is their not to sin? I am using an argument to make it obvious Evolution can't be right because its logic if followed through would lead to evil... and many times has.

Firstly, I see no reason why evolution contradicts religion. It might contradict a young-Earth creationist dogma (although so do geology, physics, cosmology and a great many other disciplines, to be honest), but that's just tough. There are many more flexible faiths in the world.

Secondly, religion is not the bedrock of everyone's morality. Most morals are learned from friends, family and society. Religion is but one way of pasing them on.
Indeed I would argue that a man who uses religion as his sole basis for morality is a far scarier person than one who learnt a decent moral code via himself and family. -Should the religious zealot lose his faith, then what? At least I would have a moral fallback. What has the zealot got, if he truly believes that without his religion there is no morality?

Evolution can't be right because its logic if followed through would lead to evil...

Well 1) it doesn't, really, since it isn't the basis of a moral code.
2) 'It isn't right because it isn't moral' could just as equally apply to gravity, which would be absurd. That is flawed reasoning.

 

[bjdea1]

Hmmm..

The core of evolution is basically - there is no God that made humans animals etc etc. Evolution says these things formed of themselves and by themselves in a process of natural selection.

Evolution also directly contradicts the bible account of how everything came to be, creation account.

I just can't fathom how anyone could not account for or question themselves concerning "Why do we humans have consciences?" "Why do we humans feel guilt and know right from wrong in our hearts". Isn't this amazing? Where did this come from? Science doesn't give any answer to that ... so my argument is basically science is not ALL right - and in particular evolution is one theory that is misleading thousands from truly finding the truth.

It also amazes me as to how complex and wonderful all of life is.....why is it that people come to a conclusion some scientific process called evolution should be given the glory for this? Isn't this glory really due to a Masterful Creator. I'm an Engineer and when I design and create something - it takes my intelligence and yes even some science to create it to perform the function I want it to perform. When other people see my work they know I did it...they know I designed and created it...because its obviously something with an intelligence behind it.....I just can't understand how when it comes to God people refuse to give him the glory for what really is the most awesome Engineering Ever....Life is something so complex and brillant, all Life ...doesn't it just scream out to you how Amazing God is??? To me it screams it out Over and Over again. I mean look at fruit and plants and flowers and the animals...God made them all for us humans... This is an Amazing and wonderful thing.....I mean really why do flowers need to smell nice to us humans and be beautiful? Its for us humans...We don't realise how much God shows his love to us through his creation .....and we even pervert his creations to give Glory to some theory....I just still can't understand this desire to overlook God all the time.....I think I will forever be perplexed by it....I guess I don't really understand where other people are coming from... actually what would be good is if I could understand Non-Christians better as to what is stopping them from seeing what I see..... I must be living in a different world and losing touch with non-christian thinking - I was a non-christian once myself, although I can say I always had an open mind even when I was a non-christian, I think I always wanted to believe and when I encounted God was ready to accept Him. It wasn't any proofs or reasoning that did finally convert me though it was a real touch to my heart from God, that finally did it, the most wonderful time in my entire life, when I lost all my burdens and fears and was finally released and free, it was a powerful experience, being Loved by God, I guess that's what's missing, some real personal stuff showing you God really does love you. Right now He seems not to even exist......or at least you are completely unaware of him? Reach out to him....and believe He will meet you if you look to him. I can tell you he really is there.

 

[4runner]

saved4life, just curious, saved is usually a biblical term...why do you call youself saved4life if you are an unbeliever?

 

[saved4life]

saved4life, just curious, saved is usually a biblical term...why do you call youself saved4life if you are an unbeliever?

Long story.

 

[victorhadin]

Re: Hmmm..

Evolution also directly contradicts the bible account of how everything came to be, creation account.

Actually, just to nitpick, most scientific disciplines contradict literal biblical creationism.

 

[saved4life]

complex and wonderful all of life is

Life is complex...yes.

Life is wonderful to the lucky ones. It's not very wonderful to starving people with leprosy in Africa. It's a living hell.

To say that life is absolutely wonderful is patent Christian naivety and egocentrism.

 

[legamus]

2 things. 1) morality and evolution are unrelated. i don't even understand how you can begin to connect the two
2) the core of evolution is not that God doesn't exist. that's not the core of anything scientific. all evolution means is change and all you have to do is look at recorded history to see evidence of that. the only thing we as believers should have an issue with is the notion that humans evolved from apes which i don't think is even correct evolutionary theory since there are still apes around.
as far as i can tell most of bj's rants are not even relevant to evolution. as somebody said, that's philosophy or apologetics or something like that. evolution may or may not be true but it doesn't directly contradict the Bible - i think the Bible is silent on it. the only thing for certain is that God created the world. whatever mechanisms he put in place for the functioning of the world and the universe should be open for study without being like superstitious peasants from the middle-ages.

i don't mean to offend anyone but imo believing evolution or any other scientific question is 'evil' or some sort of satanic conspiracy is stupid.

 

[Admiral Valdemar]

The whole "survival of the fittest" phrase was coined by a Nazi as well, this was not something Darwin can be credited for.

Nature is cruel, don't question that for a second. Altruistic tendencies in nature only occur if they benefit a certain organism. Infanticide is common if a new alpha male lion infiltrates a harem of female lions, the killing of the former male leader's cubs means the lionesses are able to become fertile again sooner for the new alpha male. The old male/s are exiled and become satellites.

However, as previously stated, humans aren't like this because we have thought up our moral code over the ages thanks to our brain power which is after all the only real advantage our species has over most the rest of the planet.

Such forceful eugenics such as killing those that are only going to contaminate the gene pool are only practiced by evil regimes, and that, my friend, is where the Nazis and their perfect Aryan race came in.

 

[Rogue 9]

Altruistic tendencies in nature only occur if they benefit a certain organism.

In which case, they're no longer altruistic. :

 

[Admiral Valdemar]

Altruistic tendencies in nature only occur if they benefit a certain organism.

In shich case, they're no longer altruistic. :

It's more of a tag for what happens, you could say mutualism was the same with mycorrhizal infections on plants. Really, the symbiosis aids both organisms, the fungi gets to grow and gain water from the plant and the plant gains needed N and P resources.

I suppose it's really a relative term, but it's thrown around a lot.

 

[Death Of Morticide]

Ok then if you really believe this - why not go now and kill every person that has a genetic defect and purify the human species and advance our evolution thousands of years ahead - rather than waiting for those weak gene 'ed people to die off naturally. Isn't this the best thing for the human species?

No, because it would reduce diversity, evolutionarily a very BAD thing, if their genes are unviable, they will die no matter what we do. Natual selection is not Survival of the fittest as much as it is fit enough to survive.

Well apparently Hitler thought so, he tried to create a Super race and he tried to purify the german race by killing the Jews.

Hitler thought the aryan race was the one made by god and the rest had evolved. It was this idea that spawned his pure race ideas.

Evolution and similar ideas are EVIL and Satan uses them as tools to deceive men into doing great evil - taking away all conscience and making it purely scientific, blinding a man to morality and Love.

No it doesn't, what a ridiculous idea. Evolutionary theory just describes the process we know to happen in as much detail as we've observed. Just like gravity theory.

Evolution has NO morality whatsoever. See it for what it is - Satans tool to deceive men into doing evil.

Gravity has NO morality whatsoever. See it for what it is - Satan's tool to deceive men into doing evil. Oh wait, that sounds ridiculous doesn't it?

Both Evolution and Gravity have no bearing on morality, they merely describe things observed in nature. If you can't understand that, then, well, i pity you.

Evolution also directly contradicts the bible account of how everything came to be, creation account.

No, that's practically all science.

My point is to try to show that Evolution is not a good influence.

Stalin didn't believe in evolution and how many of his own people did he kill? 20 million soviets died in ww2. The crusaders and inquisitions didn't believe in evolution and how many did they kill? If we're going by numbers relating to evolution belief, not believing in evolution leads to far more immorality than believing in it. Of course, i don't actually think disbelief in evolution caused these things, but it's just as likely as your evolution causing it all craziness.