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My brain needs a wash

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humble soul

On Sabbatical from Rome
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Here's a thought. We all choose what we want to be brainwashed by.
Yes we can proudly use our logic. Our analysing skill. Our scientific mind. But at some stage of the game, we take a leap of faith. Whether that be different faiths like Islam or Christianity. Or different versions of Christianity like Baptist, Reformed, non denominational or Catholic.
I will focus mainly on different types of Christianity.
I was raised Catholic so you could say I am already brainwashed. But I went through a renewal about 5 years ago. Now I deliberately choose Catholicism. I can assert that Church Fathers play an important part of my choice. But my choice of Catholicism is based more on my discomfort with the Protestant saved paradigm and I don't like their churches much. Rock and roll music just feels like poor taste. Prefer the old sacred hymns.
So it's a gut feeling in the end. And I feel sure that many Protestants feel the same. They are just more comfortable with the Sola Scriptura model. And analysing Bible verses.
Some can argue theologically well for both sides. It gives me a headache to be honest. So I guess that just betrays my laziness or lack of self discipline.
We can kid ourselves that our version of the Christian truth is superior. I don't think God cares to be honest. He's probably sick of all the arguments.
 
Some gay woman on tv reminds me of a difficult woman at work. In fact I don't think I like women. Especially feminists. And most feminists are liberal, so vote left.
That's it! I hate all left of centre parties. And for these reasons I now am a staunch right wing voter! Please now wash my brain with all things conservative! To get even with those wicked feminists!
 
Here's a thought. We all choose what we want to be brainwashed by.
Yes we can proudly use our logic. Our analysing skill. Our scientific mind. But at some stage of the game, we take a leap of faith. Whether that be different faiths like Islam or Christianity. Or different versions of Christianity like Baptist, Reformed, non denominational or Catholic.
I will focus mainly on different types of Christianity.
I was raised Catholic so you could say I am already brainwashed. But I went through a renewal about 5 years ago. Now I deliberately choose Catholicism. I can assert that Church Fathers play an important part of my choice. But my choice of Catholicism is based more on my discomfort with the Protestant saved paradigm and I don't like their churches much. Rock and roll music just feels like poor taste. Prefer the old sacred hymns.
So it's a gut feeling in the end. And I feel sure that many Protestants feel the same. They are just more comfortable with the Sola Scriptura model. And analysing Bible verses.
Some can argue theologically well for both sides. It gives me a headache to be honest. So I guess that just betrays my laziness or lack of self discipline.
We can kid ourselves that our version of the Christian truth is superior. I don't think God cares to be honest. He's probably sick of all the arguments.
My apologies as this got a little long.

I too was raised in the Catholic tradition. We were very devout in our faith. I was baptized, went to Catechism, and was confirmed in a Catholic church. I served as altar boy for many years. I sang in the church choir and my grandmother was a church organist and hosted the priest at her home regularly. I went to Catholic school until the 6th grade when we moved. My parents had all seven of us children kneel on the floor in our living room every evening to say our prayers before bed. As we were taught that to do so was a mortal sin, I never missed a Sunday Mass or Holy Day of Obligation. By my request I, along with my mother, attended daily Mass every morning during the season of Lent, where we prayed through the rosary. Most of my siblings and cousins are still members of the Catholic church and I know of at least one cousin that is a priest. Even today, I often enjoy listening to the Catholic channel and/or EWTN (the Global Catholic Network) on Sirius radio. I am not unfamiliar with Catholicism nor do I disagree with everything the Catholic church teaches.

My point in sharing the above is to give credence to the fact that unlike some I do not look down on my Catholic brothers and sisters. I know many members of the Catholic church that I believe are truly Christian believers with strong faith in our Lord, the Christ, Jesus.

Are you brainwashed? Am I brainwashed? Maybe, maybe not. When we are young we can be easily brainwashed. This is evident in how we often believe what our parents believe. If our parents are Catholic, we follow Catholic tradition because that is what we are taught. If our parents are Democrat or Republican we too most likely follow a similar path because we will adopt their views. If our parents have a strong work ethic we too will likely have a strong work ethic.

But, things can change. Most can agree that when we were in our late teens to early 20's we probably began to explore our own paths, often referred to as a rebellious stage because those paths are often not aligned with our parents. I was in my early 20's when I began to really question some of the Catholic teaching that I had experienced throughout the previous couple decades and ultimately chose to leave the church and in fact abandon God altogether. It did not go well with my parents, trust me.

In your opening post, which I quoted above, you said, "But my choice of Catholicism is based more on my discomfort with the Protestant saved paradigm and I don't like their churches much. Rock and roll music just feels like poor taste. Prefer the old sacred hymns."

This statement tells me that you have not explored too many Protestant churches and that those you did check out were more progressive so you have lumped all Protestant churches in the same fold, which is a mistake I believe many Catholics make.

I can't speak to those more progressive denominations either for I have not explored them myself but I can tell you about the Lutheran church where I claim membership. We are a relatively conservative church and we do still adhere to a formal liturgy, not too different from Catholic tradition. The fact is, this was one of the things that attracted me to our church when I was looking for a church during my early 30's after coming to my senses by the prodding of the Holy Spirit.

When you consider our liturgy it can be recognized as a continuous prayer that includes confession, prayer, praise, giving glory to God, worship, and song. The hymns we choose are traditional "sacred" hymns as you described and in fact I remember singing most of them in the Catholic church as I grew up. Admittedly, we do occasionally throw in a more contemporary song or a music group to give our organist a break or other worship leaders now and then but for about 95% of the time we follow our liturgy quite regularly. Some Lutheran denominations, such as the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod or LCMS are even more conservative than ours particularly as they do not agree with open Communion just as the Catholic church does not agree with open Communion. This is one of those areas where I found myself at odds with the Catholic tradition.

Regarding the Sola Scriptura model, when you think about it, is there truly such a thing? Yes, but only if we utterly and completely submit ourselves 100% to the authority and trust in God's Word and not rely on our own understanding in the slightest. This is something I believe nearly impossible to achieve for we are stiff necked and this has been proven countless times since the beginning. Like those in the Catholic church, we Protestants too can be and are influenced by the teaching of others. But one thing that came out of the reformation was the translation of the Bible into languages for the commoner so that we can read God's word for ourselves and not rely solely on the teaching and potential corruption of the church leaders for what we found was that the Bible also says we are to "Test the Spirits to see whether they are from God." (1 John 4:1 ESV) How can we do that without a reference other than another man? Examples of this testing is found in Acts 17:10 where the Bereans studied the Scriptures to be certain that what Paul was teaching was true.

Maybe things have changed in the past 40 years but in my time with the Catholic church I cannot recall ever seeing a Bible in our home or even in Catechism class. Everything I was taught came from the church Catechism or church teachings with very little reference to the actual Bible aside from the readings in Mass. This was another of those areas where I found myself at odds with the Catholic tradition. As I listen to those Catholic radio stations today I still hear the primary emphasis placed on the Catechism and church leadership with little emphasis on the Bible, which is God's word so it doesn't sound like that has changed too much. When I am listening to a Catholic apologist I find myself often asking out loud, "But what does the Bible say?"

Please don't misunderstand. I'm not attempting to demean the Catholic church or Catholics in general. I'm just sharing my position and why I chose to take the Protestant route and I do not believe that being a member of the Catholic church is necessarily a bad thing. The whole point of my post is that we must be careful not to be tossed to and fro on the winds of doctrine as Paul described in Ephesians 4:14. How do we do that? By following the teachings of sinful and fallible men and women? Perhaps from the source by reading, studying, meditating, and considering the Word of God directly given to us through those in whom He chose to inspire to put it in writing and to be passed down through the generations.

God is infallible and does not lie. Men can teach falsehoods but we are to be vigilant to watch for wolves in sheep's clothing, whether intentional or otherwise. I personally choose to believe that those whom God inspired to put His Word in writing are far more trustworthy than men (or women) that may or may not be influenced by other powers.

One last thought to consider. If any one part of Scripture is not believed true, then how can any of Scripture be trusted as truth or what parts do we believe and what parts do we discard? It seems that one must believe all or our faith is in vain.
 
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One last thought to consider. If any one part of Scripture is not believed true, then how can any of Scripture be trusted as truth or what parts do we believe and what parts do we discard? It seems that one must believe all or our faith is in vain.

WIP

This is why it's important to turn to Gods word, and not try to reason things out for ourselves.
God has a lot to say about accepting or rejecting HIS TRUTH.

2 Thessalonians 2:10-12, "They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a POWERFUL DELUSION so they will believe the lie and so they all will be condemned who have not believed the truth, but have delighted in wickedness."

Romans 1:28, "As a result of mans foolishness and his arrogant disdain for the truth of God, God gives them over to a depraved, REPROBATE mind, to do what ought not to be done."

Seasoned by Grace
 
parents had all seven of us children kneel on the floor in our living room every evening to say our prayers before bed.
No wonder you turned your back on Catholicism Wip. I had a far easier time. My parents were far more layback. When my grandparents visited, we had to say rosary together. That's all. I had a short stint as altar boy but was soon fired for ringing the Bells at the wrong time.
 
can't speak to those more progressive denominations either for I have not explored them myself but I can tell you about the Lutheran church where I claim membership. We are a relatively conservative church and we do still adhere to a formal liturgy, not too different from Catholic tradition. The fact is, this was one of the things that attracted me to our church when I was looking for a church during my early 30's after coming to my senses by the prodding of the Holy Spirit.
Ok fair point Wip. I might like your church. I prefer the old sacred hymns. Anglican church might be good to visit as well. I went to one a few years ago and there were only about 5 others in the Congregation. This was a Sunday 8am service! How sad.
 
and not rely on our own understanding in the slightest.
This we will never agree on. God gave us a brain for a reason..
And this is how cult leaders manipulate their congregation.
We need to keep a healthy cynicism and sense of humour. I honestly think we take theology too seriously but I guess that sounds disrespectful.
 
God is infallible and does not lie
These kinds of statements amuse me because it sounds like you are on the same level as God and attend meetings with him.
He said to you "Wip , you know I never lie. Oh and I'm infallible as well."
 
This is why it's important to turn to Gods word, and not try to reason things out for ourselves.
God has a lot to say about accepting or rejecting HIS TRUTH
God still wants us to use reason imo. Look at Thomas Aquinas book Faith and Reason.
Let me try and give you a better answer,if I were you advising me.
"Humble, you need to spend more time listening to God through reading scripture and reflection/prayer. Use that as a base. Then perhaps you can spend some time on your own reasoning. Humble, you need to be steeped in scripture first. "
Pope Francis is steeped in scripture by the way. But he is able to avoid a legalistic mindset.
 
Let me try and give you a better answer,if I were you advising me.
"Humble, you need to spend more time listening to God through reading scripture and reflection/prayer. Use that as a base. Then perhaps you can spend some time on your own reasoning. Humble, you need to be steeped in scripture first. "

humble soul my brother.

WOW !!!
That is GREAT ADVISE for anyone - including me!!!

Seasoned by Grace
 
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