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  • Focus on the Family

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    Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.

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  • The Gospel of Jesus Christ

    Heard of "The Gospel"? Want to know more?

    There is salvation in no other, for there is not another name under heaven having been given among men, by which it behooves us to be saved."

Christ applies redemption as well!

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It made them Christ died for Spiritually Rich !

2 Cor 8:9

9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.

Notice "That ye [ The Church of God see 2 Cor 1:1] through His poverty [ made in the likeness of sinful flesh] might be rich.

This is stating a Divine Purpose to be accomplished through His coming and giving His Life for the objects He gave His Life for, the Church of God. Notice to whom this Letter is written 2 Cor 1:1

1Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:

And we know scripture tells us without question That Christ gave Himself for the Church He Loved Eph 5:25

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

The end result is to make it Rich.

Remember Christ told some in the Church Smyrna Rev 2:9

9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

This is stated to be Christ Purpose for coming into the world in 2 Cor 8:9.

That ye through His Poverty might be rich.

This statement is in the subjunctive mood, which means the result in view is contingent upon a condition, in this instance the condition is Christ being made poor for them. And whenever the conjunction word hina precedes the stated end, it denotes the Divine Purpose is the First Cause, and means "in order that" or "so that"

Christ was made poor in order that ye be made rich !

This includes their sin debt being paid in full and being clothed in the fine linen of Christ Imputed Righteousness and being made rich in Faith. 2 Cor 5:21

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

James 2:5

5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

God chose them to be and made them rich in Faith through Christ being made poor for them !

It is God only who maketh Rich 1 Sam 2:7

7 The LORD maketh poor, and maketh rich: he bringeth low, and lifteth up.

Now this Truth is True in both a natural sense and Spiritual sense !

God through Christ makes us Kings and Priests Rev 1:5-6

5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father
; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

You see that " hath made us so" not offer to make, or make it available if you accept it. But He makes it happen !

That word made is the greek word poieō and means:


to make

a) with the names of things made, to produce, construct, form, fashion,

to make a thing out of something

to (make i.e.) constitute or appoint one anything, to appoint or ordain one that

to make one do something


1) cause one to

You see that ? To make one do something. Not ask them to do it, but makes them do it !

This is being made a new creature in Christ Spiritual Kingdom !

All this is a accomplishment of the Atonement and to enter man's freewill into this is nothing less than blasphemy and attempts to steal the Crown that belongs upon the Head of Christ.
 
I have given scripture. I cant believe you said that !

Your scripture doesn’t say what you claim. That’s the point.



Here is your claim —

One cant believe if they are not free from the service of sin and satan.



Here is what the scripture you quoted says —


But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them. 2 Corinthians 4:3-4


The phrase you stated:

One cant believe if they are not free from the service of sin and satan”… is not found in this passage.



The way we are saved, is by believing the Gospel; by turning to the Lord.


The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation… for those who believe.


Believing is required for a person to be saved.


Your claim is a person is first saved, then later on in life they have the ability to believe.


This is not scriptural.






JLB
 
It made them Christ died for Spiritually Rich !

2 Cor 8:9

9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.


Christ died for the world, that the world through Him might be saved.


For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. John 3:17


Your claim that Christ only died for a few people; the elect, is not scriptural.





JLB
 
Christ death accomplished Redemption for His People !

About Redemption, God does not call the redeemed to return to Him[Repentance] in order to be redeemed, but because they are already redeemed Isa 44:22

22 I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee.

Thats done solely by the Blood of Christ Eph 1:7

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

God through Christ hath already redeemed Israel, His Chosen in Christ !

Isa 43:1

But now thus saith the LORD that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; thou art mine.

Isa 44:23

Sing, O ye heavens; for the LORD hath done it: shout, ye lower parts of the earth: break forth into singing, ye mountains, O forest, and every tree therein: for the LORD hath redeemed Jacob, and glorified himself in Israel.

Lk 1:68

Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

These are not referring to Israel according to the Flesh, Abraham's physical descendants, because they in themselves are not the Children of God Rom 9:8

8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

But this Israel are all those Chosen in Christ before the Foundation of the world, The Seed of Abraham Gal 3:16

Also its the same with reconciliation, God does not call the reconciled in order to be reconciled, but because they are already objectively reconciled by the Death of God's Son. Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

2 Cor 5:18-20

18And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

So the Gospel call goes out to the already redeemed or the already reconciled, now is time for them to receive the Knowledge and comfort of them.
 
Christ death accomplished Redemption for His People !


Christ’s death accomplished His work of redemption and salvation for the world; all the world… whosoever believes.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. John 3:16-17


What group of people are excluded from “the world”?


Who specifically are you saying Jesus did not die for?





JLB
 
Christ’s death accomplished His work of redemption and salvation for the world; all the world… whosoever believes.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. John 3:16-17


What group of people are excluded from “the world”?


Who specifically are you saying Jesus did not die for?





JLB
You still dont get it do you ?
 
You still dont get it do you ?

Get what, sir?




Here are the words of Jesus Christ:


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. John 3:16-17


Again here is my question. —


Who specifically are you saying Jesus did not die for?


God sent His Son because He loved the world so that the world might be saved through Him.


Can we agree on this?





JLB
 
Get what, sir?




Here are the words of Jesus Christ:


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. John 3:16-17


Again here is my question. —


Who specifically are you saying Jesus did not die for?


God sent His Son because He loved the world so that the world might be saved through Him.


Can we agree on this?





JLB
Get what ? My post and what its witnessing to.
 
Get what ? My post and what its witnessing to.

You are the one who said this too me.


You still dont get it do you ?

My response to that is — Get what?


What am I supposed to get?


Jesus Christ died for all the world as His words teach us.


Can we agree on this?



Maybe you could explain who it is that He didn’t die for?





JLB
 
The Lord Jesus Christ of whom Adam was a Type, took the place of a countless multitude of God's Elect, who were given to Him by His Father [Jn 17:2;6:37], and He died on the cross in behalf of them, even though many had yet to be born, and through Him, they have been Redeemed, Justified, Forgiven, Sanctified, Saved and made Righteous by His Blood; For of a Truth they were accepted in the Beloved and Blessed with all Spiritual Blessings [not in their actual persons as of yet, but in their Covenant Head] before time began, in the Lamb of God which was slain from the foundation of the world. Rom 8:29-30; Eph 1:3-7; 2 Tim 1:9; Rev 13:8. For the Spirit in no uncertain terms declares " The works were finished from the foundation of the world" Heb 4:3 ! This reference is regarding creation, but its a parallel with the finished work of Redemption.
 
You are the one who said this too me.




My response to that is — Get what?


What am I supposed to get?


Jesus Christ died for all the world as His words teach us.


Can we agree on this?



Maybe you could explain who it is that He didn’t die for?





JLB
This thread is all about the atonement and what it accomplished. I have been explaining what I believe the atonement of Christ accomplished and for whom. You dont seem to get it.

 
This thread is all about the atonement and what it accomplished

His sacrifice was the satisfying payment for sins, both for those who are saved and those of the world, that all may have an opportunity to be saved; to believe and be saved.


My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:1-2


In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him. In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 1 John 4:9-11


Why was His Son sent into the world, to be a propitiation to make a reconciliation (atonement) for our sins?


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. John 3:16-17


No matter who we are, where we come from, what our nationality, race or gender is, we can rest assured that God loves us, and gave Hs Son to die for us, that we would be His very own children, through the sacrifice of His Son; the only One who could make atonement (reconciliation) for our sins.



  • For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.


God desires all men to be saved; to o believe the Gospel message of Christ.



Can we agree that God loves all the world and desires that through His Son, the world might be saved?


I’m trying to find common ground with you. This is a good place to start. We may not agree on everything, but isn’t this one point something we can agree on?







JLB
 
His sacrifice was the satisfying payment for sins, both for those who are saved and those of the world, that all may have an opportunity to be saved; to believe and be saved.


My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:1-2


In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him. In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 1 John 4:9-11


Why was His Son sent into the world, to be a propitiation to make a reconciliation (atonement) for our sins?


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. John 3:16-17


No matter who we are, where we come from, what our nationality, race or gender is, we can rest assured that God loves us, and gave Hs Son to die for us, that we would be His very own children, through the sacrifice of His Son; the only One who could make atonement (reconciliation) for our sins.



  • For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.


God desires all men to be saved; to o believe the Gospel message of Christ.



Can we agree that God loves all the world and desires that through His Son, the world might be saved?


I’m trying to find common ground with you. This is a good place to start. We may not agree on everything, but isn’t this one point something we can agree on?







JLB
So you see I dont agree with your understanding of this matter, and my posts are the reason why I give.
 
So you see I dont agree with your understanding of this matter, and my posts are the reason why I give.

Actually I don’t see any reason in your posts why you disagree that:

  • God so loved the world
  • God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
  • He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.



Why don’t you believe God so loved the world, that He sent His Son to die on the cross, that the world through Him might be saved?




JLB
 
Actually I don’t see any reason in your posts why you disagree that:

  • God so loved the world
  • God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
  • He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.



Why don’t you believe God so loved the world, that He sent His Son to die on the cross, that the world through Him might be saved?




JLB
Thats fine, plenty of folk disagree with you sir, as so with me. Just because you believe world in Jn 3:16 means all without exception, others believe it means all without distinction. That God loved sinners among the gentiles and not just among the jews. I think you are being presumptuous and uncharitable to think a person doesnt understand Jn 3:16 the way you do, especially when they have taken time to give you their reasons sir. I recommen you read a study on Jn 3:16 by AW Pink to help you understand a different perspective on it:


BTW Im going to continue to explain what I believe what Christs death accomplish.
 
I think you are being presumptuous and uncharitable to think a person doesnt understand Jn 3:16 the way you do, especially when they have taken time to give you their reasons sir.


I have asked several times if we can agree that God loves all people of the world.

How does this mean I’m presumptuous and unloving?





JLB
 
. I recommen you read a study on Jn 3:16 by AW Pink to help you understand a different perspective on it:

That’s ok. I can read what Jesus said just fine. His words are not confusing.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. John 3:16-17



Why do you believe God does not love the world, when Jesus Himself said that God does love the world, and He sent His Son to die so that the world could be saved?






JLB
 
Christ Death accomplished and obtained Eternal Redemption for us ! Heb 9:12

12Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us

Who are the Us ? That would be the Seed of Abraham of whom He came and took on the Seed of Heb 2:16

16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

Now for this Seed, He obtained Eternal Redemption for !

The word obtained here is the greek word heuriskō and means:


to find out for one's self, to acquire, get, obtain, procure

Here are a couple of other translations:

WNT and once for all entered the Holy place, taking with Him not the blood of goats and calves, but His own blood, and thus procuring eternal redemption for us.

This word procuring also means to secure :

ISV Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with his own blood he went into the Holy of Holies once for all and secured our eternal redemption.

The word origin of procure is defined :

"bring about, cause, effect,"

So, The point is , Christ just did not obtain Eternal Redemption for us to merely have it as a possession, but that He would bring about redemptive results, effects.

You see, Heb 8-10 are Chapters describing to its readers the far Superior value of Christ's Priesthood over and above that of the Levitical Priesthood and its results and effects, which fade in comparison to what Christ accomplished with God with His Blood for His People.

So Christ obtained, procured an Eternal Redemption for us, The Seed of Abraham. And He is not stagnated with this redemption, but bequeaths it's benefits upon the Heirs. You see, He procured it for a Purpose !
 
Thats fine, plenty of folk disagree with you sir, as so with me. Just because you believe world in Jn 3:16 means all without exception, others believe it means all without distinction. That God loved sinners among the gentiles and not just among the jews. I think you are being presumptuous and uncharitable to think a person doesnt understand Jn 3:16 the way you do, especially when they have taken time to give you their reasons sir. I recommen you read a study on Jn 3:16 by AW Pink to help you understand a different perspective on it:


BTW Im going to continue to explain what I believe what Christs death accomplish.
Why do you need Pink to explain John 3:16 ?
Christians have always understood what this verse means,,,,even before Pink was born.
 
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