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[__ Science __ ] The Human Evolution Ladder Failure Admitted by a Leading Evolutionist
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Barbarian
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As soon as I saw "ladder" I knew AIG was back to inventing stories they want scientists to believe. Evolution is a bush, not a ladder.
Is Lucy related to modern humans? Probably in the same way your aunt is related to you. You aren't a descendant of your aunt, but you are still related.
AIG (perhaps innocently, in ignorance), confuses relationship with direct descent. Lucy is almost certainly not the hominid that gave rise to modern humans.
And Wood seems to be a bit confused about evolutionary theory. Here's a 1990s-derived phylogeny for hominids...
Ladders went out with scala natura.
Is Lucy related to modern humans? Probably in the same way your aunt is related to you. You aren't a descendant of your aunt, but you are still related.
AIG (perhaps innocently, in ignorance), confuses relationship with direct descent. Lucy is almost certainly not the hominid that gave rise to modern humans.
And Wood seems to be a bit confused about evolutionary theory. Here's a 1990s-derived phylogeny for hominids...
Ladders went out with scala natura.
False, Aig is not claiming that evolution is a ladder. Theyre pointing out it USED to be CONSIDERED a ladder. Obviously, ""God's method of creation"" (or so you say it was) changed to fit the latest machinations of Darwinians.
What worldview did the drawer of the "March of Progress" hold?
Barbarian
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No, they just made that up. Here's Darwin's own illustration:
AiG's, apparently. Not the worldview of scientists like Darwin. This is what we often see from AiG; they invent some foolish idea and pretend that real scientists believe it.
The infamous "March of Progress" image was made by an artist who was not a scientist at all, much less a biologist. So it's not surprising that he (as AiG did) got it confused with the real thing.
The Misleading Evolution Theory
I once posed a question to someone, asking whether the fact that Neanderthals, one of the closest species to modern humans, still have…
you actually believe that YEC would teach evolution like its a fact??
Barbarian
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Actually, AiG teaches weird misunderstandings of evolution like "the march of progress."
Well your posts seemed to imply that AiG was trying to sell the Evolution theory as a fact.
Romans 1:23 predicts people believing/making evolution.
Milk-Drops
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Let's cut through the bad faith nonsense. If AiG isn't going to represent what the theory of Evolution is honestly, then they deserve the critique that the organization is dishonest.
Barbarian
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They were trying to sell a fake version of evolutionary theory, perhaps out of ignorance rather than malice. Science seems like a complete mystery to them.
Barbarian
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This is a confusion, too. Here's the verse:
Romans 1:23 And they changed the glory of the incorruptible God into the likeness of the image of a corruptible man, and of birds, and of fourfooted beasts, and of creeping things.
This is about idolatry, not evolution. It's a common mistake among YE creationists, who are often unfamiliar with the struggles His people had with idolatry, sometimes within the nation of Israel.
It's about both, actually.
nothing new under the sun.
It happened to catch Evolution, too. truth in God's Word lasts.
IF that is true, well then God in His Wisdom, spoke about an incident in HISTORY - AND- predicted the FUTURE at the SAME TIME.
God can do that, yes?
or you dont think historical facts in it about what people did can apply to today too?
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Barbarian
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This is about idolatry, not evolution.
It's a common mistake among YE creationists, who are often unfamiliar with the struggles His people had with idolatry, sometimes within the nation of Israel.
It's a common mistake among YE creationists, who are often unfamiliar with the struggles His people had with idolatry, sometimes within the nation of Israel.
That's not what evolution is. But as I pointed out, most YE creationists have no clue.
YE creationism, for example is an idol for AiG. Different ages, different idols.
Milk-Drops
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Nope, only if you manipulate the verse and remove all context. It's as Barbarian said, it's about idolatry and making Graven images of God out of animals.
You are aware that Romans was a letter to the Romans from Paul right?
If you have to manipulate text to get what you want, you have no room to gloat.
""
When a Christian accepts the secular (anti-God) belief of millions of years, he is really blaming God for death, suffering, bloodshed, and disease.
Why?The idea of millions of years came out of naturalism (atheism)—a belief system to explain the fossil record. Secularists claim the fossil layers over the earth were laid down slowly over millions of years before man appeared on earth. The fossil record is one of death, disease (e.g., brain tumors, cancer, and arthritis are found in fossil bones), and suffering—all supposedly before humans existed. However, the Bible tells us that after man was created, God called everything “very good.” God would certainly not call brain cancer very good!Also, the Bible is clear in Genesis 3:18 that thorns came into existence as a result of the curse. Yet in the fossil record, there are many examples of fossilized thorns supposedly millions of years old. So how could such fossils have existed before the curse?One of the most devastating effects of believing the lie of evolution and millions of years is that both of them teach our children that the Bible cannot be trusted as it is written.But God’s Word can be trusted! We must stop compromising with man’s ideas and stand on the authority of God’s Word from the beginning!
we want to make Christians aware of the destructive effects that evolutionary ideas and a belief in millions of years have on the gospel, the church, and scriptural authority in the culture as a whole.Now, the “lie” is more than evolution or millions of years. It speaks to a deeper issue—one that has plagued humanity since Adam and Eve took that first bite of the forbidden fruit. It begins with the question, “Did God actually say ?” (Genesis 3:1). I like to call this the “Genesis 3 attack” of our age—one that causes people to question what God has revealed to us in his Word. We are warned in 2 Corinthians 11:3 that Satan will use this same Genesis 3 attack on us as he did to Eve—to make us disbelieve the Word of God.When sinful human beings believe the lie that God’s Word is not authoritative, we put ourselves in a position of authority over God, disregarding and even rewriting his Word. Our culture is answering the question “Did God really say?” with a resounding “No!” Those who question his Word are denying the full authority and accuracy of the Bible from its very first verse. This has had devastating effects on our church and culture.The dismissal of Genesis as a literal account of creation and the flood hurts church doctrine. Every major doctrine of Scripture is ultimately (directly or indirectly) found in Genesis, so when believers dismiss Genesis 1–11 as myth or as unreliable, on what foundation can biblical doctrines stand? We are left with human opinions, which at the root are just man’s ideas lifted up as an authoritative standard over God’s Word. Thus, humans can make doctrines mean whatever they want them to mean.We must stand on the authority of God’s Word…from the very first verse!
""
Barbarian
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There is nothing in scripture that denies millions of years. It might be contrary to some people's additions to scripture, but that's another issue entirely. Morever, God never said that living things didn't die before the fall. That's yet another of man's additions to scripture.
Since Darwin himself attributed the origin of life to God, your belief is not supported by reality.
No, He did not. Again, a revision to scripture.
It's merely a cautionary tale, that some people will try to insert their own wishes (like YE) into God's word.
That is what YE creationism does. Why not just believe it as He gave it to us?
Fact is, God doesn't care whether you believe Genesis as written, or as a literal history. That's not how you will be judged, unless you make a idol of your beliefs and insist that other Christians must believe them.
Hence YE creationism. But unless that's your idol, you are no less Christian than the rest of us. Just let it be God's way and it won't trouble you any longer.
Where in Scripture is the Global Flood denied?
Like adding millions of years at an unknown point in Genesis?
Romans 5:12 obliterates your claim.
" Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all mankind, because all sinned— "
According to YOUR additions to History, death always existed. It did not come through adam, it always was the norm since life was formed.
Show me the Verses they "added", then. How many verses were "added"?
Highlight the ""revision"" in BOLD YELLOW, otherwise your assertion is Null and Void.
Genesis 3:18 :
"Cursed is the ground because of you;
With hard labor you shall eat from it
All the days of your life.
Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you;
Yet you shall eat the plants of the field; "
biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%203&version=NASB
Merely. Straight from the Barb himself.
So where in Genesis is it claimed to be a "cautionary tale"? Or is it an ADDITION?
The guy whose stance is "Genesis doesnt say what it says, it's saying something other than what it says" is asking me to accept what Genesis says. THE IRONY!!
The "stability" of your faith are certainly something to look out for.
OE vs YE is a non salvational issue, but it is absolutely a stability and a consistency of beliefs issue.
God is All Good. God is Merciful. Therefore, why would He create using a slow and destructive method to create?
Barbarian
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Same place orange leprechauns are denied. There are many, many things that are not true, that are not denied in scripture. The point is, that the Bible nowhere says there was a global flood. That was some people's addition to scripture.
No. There are also many, many things that are true, that are not in Genesis. It's about God and man and our relationship. If you try to make it otherwise, you will miss the whole message He's telling you.
Morever, God never said that living things didn't die before the fall.
Well, let's take a look at your re-interpretation of that verse...
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all mankind, because all sinned—
God said that Adam would die the day he ate from the tree. He eats, but lives on physically for many years after. If God tells the truth, we know the death was not a physical one. And notice God says this death was to mankind, not all living things. God being truth, we know the YE revision of His word is false.
And as you see, you had confused the spiritual death of Adam with physical death that had always been part of the world.
Genesis 3:18 :
"Cursed is the ground because of you; With hard labor you shall eat from it All the days of your life. Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you; Yet you shall eat the plants of the field; "
Anthropologists note that farming allowed larger populations, but less healthy ones. And note that even today, there are humans who don't put hard labor into tilling the ground and growing crops. Always have been. It applied to the people of the Middle East where farming was the norm. But the Hebrews avoided that, being pastoral people who did not farm. You're adding way too much to this verse.
See above. You've added all that other stuff. It's just about God and man and our relationship. At some point, we gained the knowledge of good and evil, disobeyed God and become spiritually dead, unable to be with Him.
That's what He's telling you. Don't try to put additional stuff into it.
Why does the world look like it was flooded then? Make it make sense.
Define "addition". What to you comprises - and qualifies - something to be an "ADDITION"?
And why do you believe that it takes MAN to reveal our origins and the age of the universe, and that God didn't reveal them in the Bible??
So how does Genesis being "allegory" help the Relationship? Anyone know? The Bible covers a lot of things.
"The Bible doesnt say what it says" moment.
"Jesus died for you."
Allegorizer: "Oh nooo, Jesus didnt die for you, thats just a metaphor for personal struggles or something."
The Hebrew helps to show otherwise. Something like "dying, die".
The Spiritual death came when he ate. Physical death entered the world, but of course animals and man only physically died after man's sin. And then the physical death.
Notice that, physical death is NOT RECORDED until AFTER Adam and Eve sinned.
If God wanted us to believe that physical death came before sin, He would show us.
Because man is the one who "spiritually died".
If it was revision, it wouldnt have pre-dated evolutionist and OEE views then.
How is physical death ALWAYS being a part of the world consistent with an ALL GOOD and OMNIPOTENT Creator? Make it make sense.
"Cursed is the ground BECAUSE of you." Thats a quote. Not an "addition".
Notice this also destroys your version of history, because God said this AFTER adam's sin. It was NOT "always a part" of the physical creation.
And history.
You dont need to allegorify Genesis for that. You can read about this in the New Testament.
Dont try to remove existing stuff from it.
Barbarian
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It looks like it was flooded in different places at different times. Some places, it looks as though it wasn't ever flooded.
For example, adding "global" to the flood of Noah.
For the same reason it took MAN to reveal protons and lymphocytes. Some things didn't matter to our salvation, and He didn't put those in His message to us. It's about God and man and our relationship. If you try to add other things, you'll miss the entire message.
Moreover, God never said that living things didn't die before the fall.
Rather, "the Bible doesn't say what it doesn't say." It doesn't say that living things didn't die before the fall. Why add that to it, when God didn't think it was necessary?
It does say that. Doesn't say that living things didn't die before the fall, but it does say Jesus died for us. Why not believe what He says and leave it at that?
So if you think that part of the Bible is wrong, what else about it do you think is in error? Why not just take it as it is?
That is man's addition to His word. Why not just accept it as it is?
A Christian has no need to fear death. It is the enemy only to the unsaved. I don't second-guess God.
Because man began to farm and work the ground for a living.
No, that's wrong. Before the fall, man did not work the earth.
It wasn't. YE creationism was invented in the last century. And it was never orthodoxy to assume all those additions of YE.
Just accept it as it is. It is true that God doesn't care what you think of the way He created the world. YE creationists are no less Christian than the rest of us. Just don't make an idol of those new doctrines.
So the exact same EFFECT as a Global Flood, except mabye that the oceans were safe. Ok.
Thats a example, not listed criteria.
Those are not the same as history. Those are in the present. The formation of the first kinds of a creature are ORIGINS, therefore, HISTORY.
Do you or do you not believe that the 12 Plagues on Egypt matter to our salvation?
Same goes if you try to remove things.
Is the Book of Romans allegory? Yes or no?
Allegorizer: "No, it doesnt say what it doesnt say. That was an Allegory!"
Jesus did. And He rose on the third day. Is the stability of your faith important to you? yes or no?
Adam and Eve BEGAN to physically die. Death entered the world. They died spiritually when they sinned.
Again, show me a verse showing that physical death came before sin.
Like adding death before sin?
Where does the Bible say it is only enemy to the unsaved?
Why would man farming curse the ground? Why is this only said AFTER he ate the fruit?
Verse?
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