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Gary_Bee said:
warner said:
It is dishonest on your part too to claim that you have read the whole of Bukhari.

I have. You obviously have not or else you would have been very embarrassed by the behavior of the prophet of Islam.

I am using the nine-volume translation of the Hadith made by Dr Muhammad Mushsin Khan entitled "The Translation of the Meaning of Sahih Al-Bukhari". It is recommended and approved by all Muslim authorities, including the spiritual heads of Mecca and Medina.

Enjoy!!
http://www.geocities.com/gary_bee_za/hadith/

P.S. Unlike Islam, we are NOT allowed to lie for our faith.

:o
but you are allowed to lie about and slander other people's faiths.
even there was 99 hadith that spoke good about him and 1 hadith that could be taken in the wrong context you would disregard the 99 and find only the 1.So all the hadith you have read all you could see is bad about him, you must have an eye and a heart of hatred against him because out of all of bukhari you have not seen any good in the man.I hope God guides you to the thruth and removed those blinkers and blinds away from your eyes and your heart.
Actually you have Bukhari, anyone can go out and buy that but you have been programmed what not to read and what not to spread.Again you are not been honest.First you have to be honest to yuorself.But you seem to be doing a big injustice to yourself.out of the whole 9 volumes which you claim you have read all of it.You see only bad in the man.
I have pity over some one like you.
i pray god guides you to ther truth.
peace
 
warner said:
Gary_Bee said:
warner said:
It is dishonest on your part too to claim that you have read the whole of Bukhari.

I have. You obviously have not or else you would have been very embarrassed by the behavior of the prophet of Islam.

I am using the nine-volume translation of the Hadith made by Dr Muhammad Mushsin Khan entitled "The Translation of the Meaning of Sahih Al-Bukhari". It is recommended and approved by all Muslim authorities, including the spiritual heads of Mecca and Medina.

Enjoy!!
http://www.geocities.com/gary_bee_za/hadith/

P.S. Unlike Islam, we are NOT allowed to lie for our faith.

:o
but you are allowed to lie about and slander other people's faiths.
even there was 99 hadith that spoke good about him and 1 hadith that could be taken in the wrong context you would disregard the 99 and find only the 1.So all the hadith you have read all you could see is bad about him, you must have an eye and a heart of hatred against him because out of all of bukhari you have not seen any good in the man.I hope God guides you to the thruth and removed those blinkers and blinds away from your eyes and your heart.
Actually you have Bukhari, anyone can go out and buy that but you have been programmed what not to read and what not to spread.Again you are not been honest.First you have to be honest to yuorself.But you seem to be doing a big injustice to yourself.out of the whole 9 volumes which you claim you have read all of it.You see only bad in the man.
I have pity over some one like you.
i pray god guides you to ther truth.
peace
Most of your slanders either from your website or from your sponsors sladering islam.com have been aswered and rebutted but out of all honesty you would not post those answers next to those slanders and say here is the answer for this case closed.Even if the Greatest mufti of islam was toi give you the answers you would still carry on you slanders.
You and those with you are on a crusade agains t islam and the prophet mohamed.No matter what answers you will get you will still find something else. i can pick up the bible and pick out to slander the personality of the prophet Jesus, but it is not in the Habit of Muslims to slander the prophets.Your forefathers engaged in that.
peace
 
warner said:
even there was 99 hadith that spoke good about him and 1 hadith that could be taken in the wrong context you would disregard the 99 and find only the 1.


Muhammad committed substantial evil, you can pretend that its all, "taken out of context" if you want.
 
Warner, I think you miss the point. All of your posts are against me... that means nothing. I do not claim to be a prophet nor do I claim to be a role model for all mankind. Muhammad did.
  • "...If you love Allah, then follow me (Muhammed)..." (Sura 3:31).

    "Ye have indeed in the Apostle of Allah (muhammad) a beautiful pattern of (conduct) for anyone whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day." (Sura 33:21).
Muhammad set himself up for this failure. It is essential that our Muslim friends do not assume that Christians are just trying to be difficult when they imply that Muhammad was not a man of immaculate quality.

If it is demanded of a person that he follow and obey a certain leader he may weigh up the pros and cons and reach a decision. But when truth and eternal life are involved, expediency on temporal issues matters no longer. So when we are told to follow the footsteps of a spiritual leader, our confidence must not be emotional only, but most important of all, it must be rational.

That presupposes as deep a study of the quality of the life of the example, as possible. One should not give a deaf ear to negative reports, provided they are substantiated. Also one would not explain away possible flaws. But most of all one must have a fixed standard by which to measure right and wrong, good and evil. As Christians we use the standard that is found in the Bible. Ultimately our concept of what is moral and what immoral will find its origin there.

Christians have a code of ethics by which Muhammad's behavior are absolutely unacceptable. Can an honest Muslim with a sense of justice and righteousness see any quality reflecting divine inspiration in such actions? Comparing the reports about Muhammad's murders, rape, thievery and child molestation with the reports of the life of Jesus, can anyone fail to see the total difference? Can any Christian be blamed to prefer being a Christian with a knowledge of the above facts?

You have yet to show that any of my posts are lies. You are unable to do that.

You think I slander Muhammad. Slander is only slander if what you say is untrue.
  • Slander = A false and malicious statement or report about someone
I quote your own "holy" books, the Quran and the Hadith. They show the fruits of Muhammad. Therefore it is not slander. Jesus taught us how to expose false prophets. He said we would "know them by their fruits."

The fruits of Muhammad are rotten!

:) :) :)
 
warner said:
Most of your slanders either from your website or from your sponsors sladering islam.com have been aswered and rebutted but out of all honesty you would not post those answers next to those slanders and say here is the answer for this case closed.Even if the Greatest mufti of islam was toi give you the answers you would still carry on you slanders.
You and those with you are on a crusade agains t islam and the prophet mohamed.


The Muslims here are free to post rebuttals. I seriously doubt that anyone can explain away all of what you find in Islam's own sources.
 
warner said:
i can pick up the bible and pick out to slander the personality of the prophet Jesus, but it is not in the Habit of Muslims to slander the prophets.


So in fact you can't "slander" Jesus, it would contradict your own religion to do so.

:wink: :biggrin
 
Addressing Warner's diversionary tactic

Warner said:
Oh so is that a new name for it now from the Christian point of view,"counselling", was that what Anti muslim televanvangelist Jimmy swaggart was doing when he got caught with prostitutes? Counselling.
Very nice way of deception, call it another name, these priest who have mistresses and have love children with them is that counselling too.And what about those priests who abuse little boys.
No don't tell me I know this is counselling too, the Christian way.

No Warner, those types of behaviors are sin- not the counseling of sin. Because they are done in the Name of God, they are vastly and inexpressibly sinful.

Of course, you and I both know that, and we know that you referenced these so as to stray from the topic, which is how to deal with sins and the sinners. You have not been addressing the mercy of Islam here. When I point out the mercy of Christ, you changed the subject to a discourse on examples of Christian failures. I would be more than willing to discuss at length the sins of Christians and/or people calling themselves Christians.

But first let us address the mercy of Islam. You have said that we are weak and foolish for not following the dictates from the OT that you cited: that is to say, you have, by chiding us for permisiveness, made it clear that you advocate killing the adulteress. Is this so? And if not, what would the remedy be in Islam?

I have demonstrated what Jesus has taught in this matter. Islam, at least in the manner that you have presented it, cannot follow Jesus as a prophet, for there is no mercy, and His Name is Mercy.

I would say the same for some Fundamentalist Christian groups, but they just want to picket these poor immoral slobs- you seem to espouse executing them.

Allah most merciful? To whom? Not to the lost sheep.
Feel free to dispute- I'm 'all ears.'
 
Re: Addressing Warner's diversionary tactic

Orthodox Christian said:
Warner said:
Oh so is that a new name for it now from the Christian point of view,"counselling", was that what Anti muslim televanvangelist Jimmy swaggart was doing when he got caught with prostitutes? Counselling.
Very nice way of deception, call it another name, these priest who have mistresses and have love children with them is that counselling too.And what about those priests who abuse little boys.
No don't tell me I know this is counselling too, the Christian way.

No Warner, those types of behaviors are sin- not the counseling of sin. Because they are done in the Name of God, they are vastly and inexpressibly sinful.

Of course, you and I both know that, and we know that you referenced these so as to stray from the topic, which is how to deal with sins and the sinners. You have not been addressing the mercy of Islam here. When I point out the mercy of Christ, you changed the subject to a discourse on examples of Christian failures. I would be more than willing to discuss at length the sins of Christians and/or people calling themselves Christians.

But first let us address the mercy of Islam. You have said that we are weak and foolish for not following the dictates from the OT that you cited: that is to say, you have, by chiding us for permisiveness, made it clear that you advocate killing the adulteress. Is this so? And if not, what would the remedy be in Islam?

I have demonstrated what Jesus has taught in this matter. Islam, at least in the manner that you have presented it, cannot follow Jesus as a prophet, for there is no mercy, and His Name is Mercy.

I would say the same for some Fundamentalist Christian groups, but they just want to picket these poor immoral slobs- you seem to espouse executing them.

Allah most merciful? To whom? Not to the lost sheep.
Feel free to dispute- I'm 'all ears.'
hi
for your information, may be you geneuinely did not know it or perhaps yuo are one of those who cover up the truth, it has been discovered that the so famous verse that christians quote from the Bible to show the merciful Jesus i.e John 8: 7So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
is not found in the original manuscripts neither in the Codex Sinaiticus nor thet codex vatinicus. In other words, likemany verses in the Bible, it was a later addition.
So now we can say Jesus up held the Laws as he said he came to do and not change them.Had he said the verses above then he would negate his own words that he did not come to abolish the law but fulfill them.
I found this and thought i share it with you, very interesting.Think twice about the false promise and the added verses that are in the Bible that make people think they can get away with adultery yet hold Islam answerable for punishing the same sin.
http://atschool.eduweb.co.uk/sbs777/vital/adultery.html
and this alost the same too
http://atschool.eduweb.co.uk/sbs777/vital/fornic.html
Enjoy!
CYA!
peace :angel:
 
Warner said:
hi
for your information, may be you geneuinely did not know it or perhaps yuo are one of those who cover up the truth, it has been discovered that the so famous verse that christians quote from the Bible to show the merciful Jesus i.e John 8: 7So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
is not found in the original manuscripts neither in the Codex Sinaiticus nor thet codex vatinicus.
What a lovely and refreshing constant it is to log on and know that you will still be avoiding my questions, defending murder in the name of Allah, and impuning my character in some way. Thank you for each of those, I can continue assured that there is an authentic Muslim on this forum.

Now, regarding the 'additions' to the text:
see http://www.bible-researcher.com/adult-hills.html
Specifically, excerpted from Edward Hills work:
The story of the woman taken in adultery was a problem also in ancient times. Early Christians had trouble with this passage. The forgiveness which Christ vouchsafed to the adulteress was contrary to their conviction that the punishment for adultery ought to be very severe. As late as the time of Ambrose (c. 374), bishop of Milan, there were still many Christians who felt such scruples against this portion of John's Gospel. This is clear from the remarks which Ambrose makes in a sermon on David's sin. "In the same way also the Gospel lesson which has been read, may have caused no small offense to the unskilled, in which you have noticed that an adulteress was brought to Christ and dismissed without condemnation . . . Did Christ err that He did not judge righteously? It is not right that such a thought should come to our minds etc." (32)

According to Augustine (c. 400), it was this moralistic objection to the pericope de adultera which was responsible for its omission in some of the New Testament manuscripts known to him. "Certain persons of little faith," he wrote, "or rather enemies of the true faith, fearing, I suppose, lest their wives should be given impunity in sinning, removed from their manuscripts the Lord's act of forgiveness toward the adulteress, as if He who had said 'sin no more' had granted permission to sin." (33) Also, in the 10th century a Greek named Nikon accused the Armenians of "casting out the account which teaches us how the adulteress was taken to Jesus . . . saying that it was harmful for most persons to listen to such things." (34)

That early Greek manuscripts contained this pericope de adultera is proved by the presence of it in the 5th-century Greek manuscript D. That early Latin manuscripts also contained it is indicated by its actual appearance in the Old Latin codices b and e. And both these conclusions are confirmed by the statement of Jerome (c. 415) that "in the Gospel according to John in many manuscripts, both Greek and Latin, is found the story of the adulterous woman who was accused before the Lord." (35) There is no reason to question the accuracy of Jerome's statement, especially since another statement of his concerning an addition made to the ending of Mark has been proved to have been correct by the actual discovery of the additional material in W. And that Jerome personally accepted the pericope de adultera as genuine is shown by the fact that he included it in the Latin Vulgate.

Another evidence of the presence of the pericope de adultera in early Greek manuscripts of John is the citation of it in the Didascalia (Teaching) of the Apostles and in the Apostolic Constitutions, which are based on the Didascalia.

. . . to do as He also did with her that had sinned, whom the elders set before Him, and leaving the judgment in His hands departed. But He, the Searcher of Hearts, asked her and said to her, 'Have the elders condemned thee, my daughter?" She saith to Him, 'Nay, Lord.' And He said unto her, 'Go thy way: Neither do I condemn thee.' (36)

In these two documents (from the 3rd and 4th centuries respectively) bishops are urged to extend forgiveness to penitent sinners. After many passages of Scripture have been cited to enforce this plea, the climax is reached in the supreme example of divine mercy, namely, the compassion which Christ showed to the woman taken in adultery. Tischendorf admitted that this citation was taken from the Gospel of John. "Although," he wrote, "the Apostolic Constitutions do not actually name John as the author of this story of the adulteress, in vain would anyone claim that they could have derived this story from any other source." (37) It is true that R. H. Connolly (1929) (38) and other more recent critics insist that the citation was not taken from the canonical Gospel of John but from the apocryphal Gospel according to the Hebrews, but this seems hardly credible. During the whole course of the argument only passages from the canonical Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments are adduced. Can we suppose that when the authors of these two works reached the climax of their plea for clemency toward the penitent they would abandon the Scriptures at last and fall back on an apocryphal book?

Another important testimony concerning the pericope de adultera is that of Eusebius (c. 324). In his Ecclesiastical History Eusebius gives extracts from an ancient treatise written by Papias (d. 150), bishop of Hierapolis, entitled Interpretation of the Oracles of the Lord. Eusebius concludes his discussion of Papias' writings with the following statement: "The same writer used quotations from the first Epistle of John, and likewise also from that of Peter, and has expounded another story about a woman who was accused before the Lord of many sins, which the Gospel according to the Hebrews contains." (39)
We shall cease there- point made. The point made is that the Gospels themselves were rememberances- they were not field notes. That the Church canonized the Gospel of John including this story is enough to be said.

We do not hold to the mercy of the Lord based upon a singular passage- we do so through the testimony of mercy in the scriptures. Jesus was a paragon of mercy, incorporating as He did a Tax collector in His leadership, a former prostitute in his entourage, and so forth. The scriptures tell us that God desires mercy, not sacrifice. Yahweh specifically sent Hosea to buy back his wife from prostitution. God sent His only Son into the world to save the world, not to condemn.

I know this mercy is a foreign language to you, but try to follow along: God has demonstrated to us that He is interested in reconciling huumans to Himself. We do not say that adultery is just fine and dandy, we do not excuse it among ourselves- but we also allow God to be the judge, and God will judge, Warner, between you and I, to see who is speaking truthfully of God- who is good, and His Mercy endures forever.

We shall then ask of Saint Mary of Egypt, the prostitute who repented, we shall ask of Peter, who apostasied, we shall ask of Manasseh, who served other Gods- we shall ask them of the tender mercies of God. Will you enquire with me in the scriptures, Warner? Will you look into the mercy of God? I dare you- if you do, you will be undone, as I am.
 
Gary_Bee said:
Warner, I think you miss the point. All of your posts are against me... that means nothing. I do not claim to be a prophet nor do I claim to be a role model for all mankind. Muhammad did.
  • "...If you love Allah, then follow me (Muhammed)..." (Sura 3:31).

    "Ye have indeed in the Apostle of Allah (muhammad) a beautiful pattern of (conduct) for anyone whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day." (Sura 33:21).

You have yet to show that any of my posts are lies. You are unable to do that.

You think I slander Muhammad. Slander is only slander if what you say is untrue.
  • Slander = A false and malicious statement or report about someone
I quote your own "holy" books, the Quran and the Hadith. They show the fruits of Muhammad. Therefore it is not slander. Jesus taught us how to expose false prophets. He said we would "know them by their fruits."

Actually it is you who is missing the point.you keep insisting you have studied about Islam yet you have posted two verses claiming they were written by Mohamed when you should know he did not write the Quran, although his name is mentioned it is addressed to him.He did not write it.You try to make out you have Studied the Whole of bukhari and you have studied the Quran when it shows clearly that yuo haven't.My posts are not against you but the Lies you tell. Had you studied the Full Bukhari , 9 volumes, thousands of hadiths, :
1. you would have seen the Hadiths of peace and goodness of the character of Mohamed, but out of thousands of hadith all you can pick are those you interpret as evil.The true meanings are not what you interpret them as,you refuse to accept the true meanings.
Had you read the Whole of Bukhari you would have had most of the answers of the slanders you posts even on your website and yes they are slanders because the truths have been posted before by muslims but you refuse to acknowledge them.you conceal the truth and post what you want to post.
I dare you to post with every one of your slanders the rebuttals( the truths )explaining those cases, then may be you will be respecrted more but as long as you reject to acknowledge the truth and carry on posting slanders then you will always be considered a Liar.And no matter what GOD you beleibve in he does not Like liars and the blood of Nobody will help you on the day you stand in front of him.
2.Again had you read the whole of Bukhari as you claim and had you studied about Islam you would automatically know the position of Jesus compared to Mohamed (peace be upon them both), you claim Jesus is so peaceful but mohamed a warrior, you fail to acknowledge that Jesus mission is not over he will be returning , according to Islam too. And what will he be doing when he comes back eat candy floss and watch movies with those who were evil and defile the religion of GOD? Had you any knowledge Of Islam you would know that the end of times in Islam is based on the return of Jesus and how as a great warrior he will restore peace and Justice, how he will fight and kill the anti christ and his army. Agreat honour bestowed upon him that just one look at him, his enemy will melt like salt.Did you not see this hadith out of ther whole 9 volumes you supposedly read.
So please stop slandering Jesus even and telling lies about him, God is watching over you and he does not like liars.
Why do you not posts these truths are you so afraid of them, you have to conceal them.
Mt7:
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

you will among those he would turn away.

So pls stop fooling yourself and others into beleiving you know the whole of Bukhari and you have studied Islam.You have studied only fragments that have been shown to you that you can use to attack Islam.
peace
:angel:
 
warner said:
I dare you to post with every one of your slanders the rebuttals( the truths )explaining those cases, then may be you will be respecrted more but as long as you reject to acknowledge the truth and carry on posting slanders then you will always be considered a Liar.


Islamic religious law demands that Muslims who convert to another faith should be killed. This is one of the claims that Gary_Bee has recently made.


Please post a rebuttal. I would love to see it.
 
http://www.answering-christianity.com/death.htm



"We also read about Jesus ordering the killing of apostates (those who desert him) "I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away an withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. (John 15:5-6)" Apostates are to be burned alive according to the new testament. Of course as a Muslim I don't believe that Jesus ever said that. The Bible is full of corruptions that give wrong the picture about Jesus."



I just thought I would post this interesting interpretation of the Bible.

:biggrin
 
http://www.answering-christianity.com/apostates.htm


This is an attempted rebuttal, but it doesn't look very convincing. It does not address either Sharia Law, or the historical practice of Islam

It mentions the Quran verse 2:256, "There is no compulsion in religion", without saying anything about how the verse has been historically interpreted.

I would not be surprised if other criticisms could be made against it.
 
DivineNames said:
http://www.answering-christianity.com/death.htm



"We also read about Jesus ordering the killing of apostates (those who desert him) "I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away an withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. (John 15:5-6)" Apostates are to be burned alive according to the new testament. Of course as a Muslim I don't believe that Jesus ever said that. The Bible is full of corruptions that give wrong the picture about Jesus."



I just thought I would post this interesting interpretation of the Bible.
you mean this false interpretation of the Bible :biggrin
YOU WOULDN'T UNDERSTAND THE BIBLE IF YOU LIVED TO BE A MILLION YEARS.
YESHUA NEVER SAID THAT ANYONE THAT LEAVES CHRISTIANITY SHOULD BE BURNT NEVER EVER YOUR AS USUALLY DISTORTING THE WORD THIS IS ABOUT THE END TIMES. YOU DO KNOW ABOUT THE END TIMES? OR DO YOU THINK THAT YOUR GOING TO GO ON KILLING THE JEWS AND CHRISTIANS FOREVER?
AND THE BIBLE IS NOT CORRUPT AND IT DOES NOT GIVE A WRONG PICTURE OF YESHUA YOUR SO-CALLED HOLY GIVES A DISTORTED PICTURE OF YESHUA AND YOU JUST WAIT AND SE ONE DAY YOU WILL SO VERY SORRY FOR THAT, DON'T YOU KNOW YOUR MOCKING GOD WHEN YOUR SAYING THAT HIS WORD HAS BEEN CORRUPTED BE VERY CAREFUL MY FRIEND VERY CAREFUL GOD WILL NOT BE MOCKED NEVER EVER.
AND EDUCATE YOURSELF YOUR MAKING A FOOL OUT YOURSELF WHEN YOU POST SOMETHING YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND
SHALOM AND LOVE IN THE NAME OF YESHUA THE TRUTH AND THE ONLY WAY TO HEAVEN
 
DivineNames said:
http://www.answering-christianity.com/death.htm



"We also read about Jesus ordering the killing of apostates (those who desert him) "I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away an withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. (John 15:5-6)" Apostates are to be burned alive according to the new testament. Of course as a Muslim I don't believe that Jesus ever said that. The Bible is full of corruptions that give wrong the picture about Jesus."



I just thought I would post this interesting interpretation of the Bible.

:biggrin
And how many Christians converts have you seen been burnt lately? NON
whereas we constantly hear and see that non muslims are being decapitated and converts are being killed so go away with your lies.
Shalom and love in the name of YESHUA THE TRUTH AND PERFECT LOVE
 
YESHUA said:
DivineNames said:
http://www.answering-christianity.com/death.htm



"We also read about Jesus ordering the killing of apostates (those who desert him) "I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away an withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. (John 15:5-6)" Apostates are to be burned alive according to the new testament. Of course as a Muslim I don't believe that Jesus ever said that. The Bible is full of corruptions that give wrong the picture about Jesus."



I just thought I would post this interesting interpretation of the Bible.

:biggrin
And how many Christians converts have you seen been burnt lately? NON
whereas we constantly hear and see that non muslims are being decapitated and converts are being killed so go away with your lies.
Shalom and love in the name of YESHUA THE TRUTH AND PERFECT LOVE
You seem to want to hear only one side of the story i can, give you testimonies of loads of friend sof mine who are from india o rthe philipines who have accepted Islam and who are no longer welcome home.thay have been told death is waitng for them if they come back and do not denounce islam.I was Just chatting to a friend today and american convert to islam who is married to a pihlipino convert.His mother inlaw is interseted in islam but if frightened to go back to the philipines.So pls don't do injustice to your self tell the truth.GOD does not like Liars, even the GOD you beleive in I am sure he hates liars and will deal severely with them
peace
 

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