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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join Hidden in Him and For His Glory for discussions on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/become-a-vessel-of-honor-part-2.112306/
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All men are without sin and have fallen short...
- Thread starter Oats
- Start date
craigmn3
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- Nov 23, 2010
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Considering your vociferousness on your other post I some how doubt that.
I take you back you YOUR scripture
Romans 3: 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Does that say for all were born and fall short of the glory of God? no
It is the act of sin, that brings this about.......which a baby cannot do. Its is developmentally impossible for a baby to sin.
Oats
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- Jul 12, 2010
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who is all?
if you want to do this address my point directly, don't just consider yours to be better, or else what is the point of this, is it to to spread hate, nay, we must lay down our biases and approach this in a Christ like manner
if you read my scripture and not try to trump them then i'll do the same with your scriptures and points
Psalm 51:5 - "Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me."
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stovebolts
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- Nov 4, 2004
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This is categorized as a hyperbole. Look at it this way. Just because you're in a night club, does that mean that you can dance?... In the same manner, one can be in something, yet not be of it.
But anyway, the texts says that the mother was in sin, not the child. The text is saying that when David was born, he was born into a sinful world. The text does not state that he was sinful, but rather, he was brought into a sinful world full of iniquity where eventually, he himself would sin.
Have you read the other Psalm of David? I am fearfully and wonderfully made?...
Even in your op the question is raised, "All MEN".... This is not to assume children or infants for surely God desires All Men to be saved, yet for those who reject him are without hope.
Romans 2:5 But according to your hardness and unrepentant heart treasure up unto yourself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Deavonreye
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- Sep 4, 2010
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Before, of course.
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elijah23
Guest
Everybody has sinned.
As for original sin, someone had to be the first to sin. However, I don’t think that is an excuse for the rest of us to sin, as some seem to think.
ProphetMark
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- Jul 14, 2008
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Then it's not true to say that all have sinned.
theLords
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- Sep 12, 2010
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stovebolts
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In regard to the Scripture posted, I had written this elswhere on the board.
Hmm.. A light reading over the text would show that;
In Chapter 1, Paul is addressing the Gentiles
In Chapter 2, Paul is addressing the Jews.
Chapter three is a summary. "Gentiles sin, Jews Sin". Thus,
Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no way: for we have before proved both Jews and Greeks, that they are all under sin;
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; (Both Gentiles and Jews)
But to better make my point, please tell me how an infant could do the things spoken of from verses 10 thru 18.
stovebolts
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I just wanted to add that we must be careful how we use the word All.
1 Timothy 2:3-4
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Does this mean that all men will be saved? How do we know this?
1 Timothy 2:3-4
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Does this mean that all men will be saved? How do we know this?
- Dec 11, 2010
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“I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.“
Since none of us is capable of keeping God’s commandments we pass our guilt to our offspring and therefore we are guilty and held accountable before leaving the womb.
It was argued that the word “sinned†in Romans 3:23 is past tense and therefore it is not possible for a baby to have sinned but why are we leaving out the rest of the verse? If a school official announces that, “All boys and girls must report to the lunchroom at noon,†does that imply that only those students possessing both male and female qualities must report or does it mean that all boys AND all girls must report? Let’s read the verse again. “All have sinned AND all have fallen short of the glory of God?†It would seem that because of the guilt of our forefathers we are held accountable and therefore have fallen short before we even left the womb. It is through repentance and trust in Jesus that we might be saved.
It was also suggested that a newborn is born sinless. If this is true and a baby is born sinless then why was it necessary for the Christ child to be born of the Holy Spirit through a virgin in order to remain pure and sinless? If babies are born without sin, wouldn't any child have qualified? We are all born with the stain of the sins of our parents from many generations past. For this reason it seems that a natural birth of human parents would have deemed the would-be Christ child impure, would it not?
Since none of us is capable of keeping God’s commandments we pass our guilt to our offspring and therefore we are guilty and held accountable before leaving the womb.
It was argued that the word “sinned†in Romans 3:23 is past tense and therefore it is not possible for a baby to have sinned but why are we leaving out the rest of the verse? If a school official announces that, “All boys and girls must report to the lunchroom at noon,†does that imply that only those students possessing both male and female qualities must report or does it mean that all boys AND all girls must report? Let’s read the verse again. “All have sinned AND all have fallen short of the glory of God?†It would seem that because of the guilt of our forefathers we are held accountable and therefore have fallen short before we even left the womb. It is through repentance and trust in Jesus that we might be saved.
It was also suggested that a newborn is born sinless. If this is true and a baby is born sinless then why was it necessary for the Christ child to be born of the Holy Spirit through a virgin in order to remain pure and sinless? If babies are born without sin, wouldn't any child have qualified? We are all born with the stain of the sins of our parents from many generations past. For this reason it seems that a natural birth of human parents would have deemed the would-be Christ child impure, would it not?
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gideon3213
Guest
1 Cor 15:22
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. KJV
1 Cor 7:14-15
14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy. NKJV
these two passages should be enough to prove that the sin that adam commited has been passed down to every one of us. According to the scriptures, if we have two parrents that are not believers, we are born damned! If one parent is a believer we are born saved!
Another example is that little kids do evil naturally. For example, you tell a little kid that he cannot have any cookies and that he has to stay out of the cookie jar. then you leave, and come back later on and discover that he has cookie crumbs on his cloths and the number of cookies in the jar is much fewer. so you confront him and ask him if he got into the cookie jar. His response will be 'NO, I did not get into the cookie jar!' Yet you see the evidence on his shirt that proves otherwise! Now, the questiion is: who taught him how to lie? I am sure that you did not teach him to lie to you whenever he disobey's you! and who taught him to steal? or who taught him to disobey you? He does all of these things naturally; without any training at all! Little kids are also, selfish, rude, and are very cruel! Dr. James Dobson said that we are all born juvinile delequants! If we are going to be honest, loving, careing, law abbiding people when we become adults: then our parents must teach us how to do these things; because these things are contrary to the way that we are wired at birth!
I think that this is ample proof that we are born with a nature that has a propensity to do evil! Now the question is; where did that nature come from? did we always have that nature? the answer is no, mankind did not always have that nature; as adam was created without it! It is only when he disobeyed God in the garden of eden that his nature was changed to an evil nature. and every human being has been born with it ever since.
have a great day.
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. KJV
1 Cor 7:14-15
14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy. NKJV
these two passages should be enough to prove that the sin that adam commited has been passed down to every one of us. According to the scriptures, if we have two parrents that are not believers, we are born damned! If one parent is a believer we are born saved!
Another example is that little kids do evil naturally. For example, you tell a little kid that he cannot have any cookies and that he has to stay out of the cookie jar. then you leave, and come back later on and discover that he has cookie crumbs on his cloths and the number of cookies in the jar is much fewer. so you confront him and ask him if he got into the cookie jar. His response will be 'NO, I did not get into the cookie jar!' Yet you see the evidence on his shirt that proves otherwise! Now, the questiion is: who taught him how to lie? I am sure that you did not teach him to lie to you whenever he disobey's you! and who taught him to steal? or who taught him to disobey you? He does all of these things naturally; without any training at all! Little kids are also, selfish, rude, and are very cruel! Dr. James Dobson said that we are all born juvinile delequants! If we are going to be honest, loving, careing, law abbiding people when we become adults: then our parents must teach us how to do these things; because these things are contrary to the way that we are wired at birth!
I think that this is ample proof that we are born with a nature that has a propensity to do evil! Now the question is; where did that nature come from? did we always have that nature? the answer is no, mankind did not always have that nature; as adam was created without it! It is only when he disobeyed God in the garden of eden that his nature was changed to an evil nature. and every human being has been born with it ever since.
have a great day.
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theLords
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- Sep 12, 2010
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