Appointed to disobedience !

[savedbygrace57]

1 Pet 2:8

8And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

The early church followed the apostles doctrine or teachings Acts 2:42

42And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

one of which [ apostles] was Peter, who was steeped into predestination Acts 2:23

23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

Acts 4:27-28

For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,

28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

And remember, they were only continuing what Jesus at first began to teach them in His public ministry with them per Acts 1:1

1The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,

Remember Jesus taught that his death was determined..Lk 22:22

And truly the Son of man goeth, as it was determined: but woe unto that man by whom he is betrayed!

Now Peter in His epistle the 1 st letter is confirming the truth that within the scope of Gods determining counsel, He had appointed some to be disobedient to the Word..

1 Pet 2:8

8And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

The word here for appointed is the greek word:

tithēmi:

to set, put, place as in appointment of something..as in appointment to punishment..i.e

1 Thess 5:9

9For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

So in contrast, some God hath appointed to wrath and consequently disobedience..

1 Thess 1:8

In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospell of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Remember they stumble at the word 1 Pet 2:8 ..now peter was specifically speaking of the jews of the time of their earthly ministry with Jesus christ..and He was the Word made flesh..

since then, those appointed to disobedience are offended by the preached word.

Matt 13:21

21Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

But those such offended, had been appointed to this disobedience by God..wether jew or non jew, god for His purpose, has appointed some to disobedience, to be children of disobedience per

Eph 2:2

2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

You see that ? Children of disobedience, thats their lot in life, and will be their ruin everlastingly..of which they have been appointed..

 

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You see that ? Children of disobedience, thats their lot in life, and will be their ruin everlastingly..of which they have been appointed..

and of course you have zero disobedience and are in fact without sin and perfect in every way?

 

[savedbygrace57]

and of course you have zero disobedience and are in fact without sin and perfect in every way?

This thread is not about me !

 

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This thread is not about me !

Let's rephrase then to 'believers who hold positions exactly like yours.'

 

[Webers_Home]

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This thread is not about me !

Recriminations are a knee-jerk reflex for some people because it's far less painful to shoot the messenger than it is to wear the shoe if it fits.

Cliff
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[Davies]

I can't help but notice the intense, passionate, love emanating from one brother to the other.

You see that ? Children of disobedience, thats their lot in life, and will be their ruin everlastingly..of which they have been appointed.. - savedbygrace57

A question I would ask is if a person is appointed to disobedience, does that mean he is always appointed to disobedience to the degree of not being saved?

I'm thinking of Romans 11:32.

Romans 11:32
New King James Version (NKJV)

32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.

Although I know this thread isn't about you, what does the 57 stand for in your handle savedbygrace57?

- Davies

 

[Webers_Home]

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And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

The Greek manuscripts contain no punctuation. So then, all the punctuation in the above verse is there arbitrarily at the discretion of the translators. Here's what it looks like with the punctuation removed.

And a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence even to them which stumble at the word being disobedient whereunto also they were appointed

That could be saying any number of things. For one: it could be saying not that the Jews were appointed to be disobedient; but rather, that they were appointed to stumble at the word because they were disobedient.

That very same stumbling exists among carnal Christian; viz: they've quenched the Spirit to the point where the anointing of 1John 2:26-27 no longer works for them: so they become like blind men in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. And though they proudly wear the Christian label; they resist the truth just as zealously as if it were a lie. Those kinds of Christians are a real pain in the derriere because they stumble at the word every step of the way and they're impossible to correct.

PT Barnum is rumored to have once said: There's a customer born every minute and two competitors for his business. Well, in Christianity it seems that for every one born of God's Spirit, there are two carnal Christians born to give him a hard time.

Cliff
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[Davies]

Eph. 2:2
2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

You see that ? Children of disobedience, thats their lot in life, and will be their ruin everlastingly..of which they have been appointed..

I was just rereading your post and Eph. 2:2 says that ye, a believer, once walked according to the spirit that works in the children of disobedience. But, you say, "Children of disobedience, thats their lot in life, and will be their ruin everlastingly..." Wouldn't we say we all were children of disobedience, yet, while were still sinners, God died for us to pay for our sins? We do understand many will not receive the pardon for their sins, but I wouldn't blame God for that.

- Davies

 

[savedbygrace57]

davie

I was just rereading your post and Eph. 2:2 says that ye, a believer, once
walked according to the spirit that works in the children of disobedience.

Thats correct !

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But, you say, "Children of disobedience, thats their lot in life, and will be
their ruin everlastingly

Thats correct

Wouldn't we say we all were children of disobedience,

Not correct. The elect had a nature like the children of disobedience, walked liked them, but were not them, they were the Children of God taken captive by that evil nature !

 

[savedbygrace57]

1 Pet 2:8

8And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

They were appointed is in the aorist tense, passive voice, meaning they did not appoint themselves to disobey but someone else appointed them to disobedience..

That being God..for the devil cannot appoint nobody nowhere.

 

[Webers_Home]

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Wouldn't we say we all were children of disobedience, yet, while were still sinners, God died for us to pay for our sins?

I believe you are 100% correct.

†. Eph 2:1-3 . . And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves

†. Titus 3:3 . . For we ourselves also at one time were foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

Disobedience, therefore, is universal.

†. Rom 3:9-12 . .We have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; as it is written: There is none righteous, no, not one: there is none that understands, there is none that seeks after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Since disobedience is universal, then it only stands to reason that stumbling at the word is universal too until such a time as a higher power steps in to remedy the situation.

†. Mtt 11:27 . .No one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wishes to reveal Him.

†. John 14:22-24 . .Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said: But, Master, why do you intend to reveal yourself to us and not to the world? Jesus replied: If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. He who does not love me will not obey my teaching.

†. 2Cor 3:15-16 . . Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

I would say— in light of John 14:22-24 —turning to the Lord implies turning from disobedience to obedience: and when that happens; I'd guess that one's stumbling at the word is greatly reduced since the veil obscuring their view is removed.

Cliff
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Recriminations are a knee-jerk reflex for some people because it's far less painful to shoot the messenger than it is to wear the shoe if it fits.

Cliff
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Believers who claim they have no disobedience i.e. sin and rail against other sinners are not my favorite scripture dissectors.

Hypocrisy tends to spoil their sifter party.

s

 

[Webers_Home]

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someone else appointed them to disobedience

In my opinion; the English syntax of the passage in question is misleading; especially it's arbitrary punctuation. I tend to think the lost are appointed to stumble at the word rather than appointed to disobey. In other words; stumbling at the word is retribution for disobeying the word. And in my mind's eye, it's only fair that people who rebel against God deserve to be taken in by fallacy. (cf. 2Ths 2:8-12)

Cliff
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[Davies]

Not correct. The elect had a nature like the children of disobedience, walked liked them, but were not them, they were the Children of God taken captive by that evil nature !

savedbygrace57,

I'm trying to understand the distinction. I don't think I was any different before coming to faith in Jesus compared to anyone, and I can't recall a passage in Scripture that tells me there is a distinction, considering we all received the same nature from Adam. As far as being taken captive, all men before Christ are captive, meaning every man needs redemption.

Romans 5:12
New King James Version (NKJV)

12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—

I especially like Romans 5:19:

Romans 5:19
New King James Version (NKJV)
19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.

So, we are all made sinners the same way, through Adam. Also, we are made righteous the same way, through Jesus.

How do you make the distinction between sinners?

- Davies

 

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All these doctrines work just great when they are all in our behalves and can heap them upon other believers with the threat of condemnation and damnation and beat the chest like a savage animal.

But when a man gets real about his OWN sin, that being of the devil, they don't quite stack up very well AT ALL.

Then one has to have a real heart to heart TRUTHFUL discussion with our Makers Words, if we desire not to be the slave of the liar 'we all' carry.

Those doctrines are meaningless when His Light is Shed in Truth.

s

 

[savedbygrace57]

d

How do you make the distinction between sinners?

God does ! And I already explained myself in a previous post ! Post 9


God Loves some sinners while they are sinners as per Rom 5:8

8But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Then there are some God hates as the workers of iniuity Ps 5:5

5The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

Now those in Rom 5:8 are sinners just as those in Ps 5:5 are, but God made a distinction . He Loves one group of sinners, and He hates another group of sinners..

 

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d



God does ! And I already explained myself in a previous post ! Post 9


God Loves some sinners while they are sinners as per Rom 5:8

8But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Then there are some God hates as the workers of iniuity Ps 5:5

5The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

Now those in Rom 5:8 are sinners just as those in Ps 5:5 are, but God made a distinction . He Loves one group of sinners, and He hates another group of sinners..

I am QUITE assured that God hates sin of the DEVIL because it's of the DEVIL.

God is partial to NO MAN nor a 'respecter' of persons exactly for that reason.

God hatest ALL workers of iniquity.

A believer is called to divide from that working, but we can't say we ALL don't have it to divide from.

Doctrines that spread GRACE and PARTIALITY to the DEVIL are blinded by same.

s

 

[Davies]

Now those in Rom 5:8 are sinners just as those in Ps 5:5 are, but God made a distinction . He Loves one group of sinners, and He hates another group of sinners..

savedbygrace57,

I'd like to ask one more question on the subject, so, I would ask if you could please have patience with me. I understand from what you said that we aren't differentiated as sinners, then I would ask what does God use to differentiate, or how does God qualify His choice from one sinner to the next to save?

- Davies

 

[Webers_Home]

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God commendeth his love toward us

God's commended His love towards the whole world; not just a percentage of the world.

†. John 3:16 . . For God so loved the world

while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Christ gave his life for every sinner; not just for a percentage of sinners.

†. 1John 2:2 . . He is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

thou hatest all workers of iniquity

There is not one soul on earth who does not belong in the workers of iniquity category.

†. Rom 3:9-12 . .There is none righteous, no, not one: there is none that understands, there is none that seeks after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

†. 1Tim 1:15 . .This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation: that Christ Jesus came into the world to rescue sinners; of whom I am chief.

†. 1John 1:10 . . If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

There are in fact a number of Christians practicing iniquity that need to make an effort to stop.

†. 2Tim 2:19 . . Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

He Loves one group of sinners, and He hates another group of sinners

The Bible's God hates all sinners; not just a special group of sinners.

†. Ps 5:5 . . thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

In 1John 2:2, the word "propitiation" appears. Webster's defines propitiate as: to gain or regain the favor or goodwill of; viz: to appease and/or to conciliate. In other words: though God hates all workers of iniquity, it is possible for all workers of iniquity to get past God's hatred via Christ's crucifixion; in other words: to reconcile with God and be at peace with Him rather than perpetually at odds. And according to 1John 2:2, the opportunity is available to all; not just to some.

†. Luke 2:10-11 . .The angel said to them: Do not be afraid, for behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy which will be to all people.

Cliff
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[savedbygrace57]

web

The Bible's God hates all sinners;

Thats a Lie Rom 5:8

8But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.