Are the "omni" words Biblical?

[JMM]

With over 21,000 threads having been launched in this forum, I don't know whether or not this topic has been discussed already, and apologize if it has. But here goes.....

God is often referred to by such terms as “omnipotent,†“omnipresent,†“omniscient,†and several other “omni†words. Actually, God is not presented in the Bible in this fashion. This terminology is a Greco-Roman philosophical construct that is superimposed on an essentially Hebrew theology. The God of the Bible is technically not omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent or even omnibenevolent. This fact is important when considering theodicy issues. Here are some thoughts about each of these concepts, based upon the portrayal of God in the Bible.

1) Omnipotent: While there are general statements in Scripture that all things are possible with God and nothing is too difficult for Him, there are some clear technical exceptions. God cannot lie (Titus 1:2) and God cannot deny Himself (or act contrary to His nature - II Timothy 2:13), for example. While He is extremely powerful, His nature restricts His actions and His freedom to a certain degree.

2) Omnipresent: Psalm 139:7-12 is often cited for the concept that God is omnipresent. However, this passage speaks more of God’s presence with David than with God’s technical presence everywhere in the cosmos. But Psalm 10:4 says that God is not in the thoughts of the wicked, so that is at least one intangible realm that God does not occupy.

3) Omniscient: Psalm 139:1-6 is often cited as evidence of God’s omniscience, but, again, it deals mainly with His relationship with David. Furthermore, God’s specific knowledge seems to be limited in this passage to the past and present, not the future. In Genesis 2:19, God is depicted as watching Adam to see what he would name the various animals - an indication that God did not know what names Adam would ultimately select. The portrayal of God’s knowledge of the future in the Bible is more along the lines of the knowledge of Bobby Fischer (may he rest in peace) playing a chess game with me. Mr. Fischer would have known that he would win the game, and his skill was such that he could have guided the course of the game to whatever conclusion he desired (even to the point of making specific predictions). He would have known all the possible moves that I could have made, the likelihood of various moves, and the consequences of those moves. But he would not have known my specific moves ahead of time - whether I would move my king pawn one or two spaces on my opening move, for example.

4) Omnibenevolence: “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.†“I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy.†Those who experience God in faith testify of His love, but not everyone experiences Him this way. Jesus said of Judas that “it would have been good for that man if he had not been born.†(Matthew 26:24) Technically, benevolence toward Judas would have been (at the least) never to have allowed him to be born. But God allowed him to be born for His purposes, with the end result being that Judas experienced something that made the rest of his life not worth living. (perhaps it was the mental suffering that he experienced before he committed suicide, and perhaps annihilation in the judgment). So while God is love (and this is primarily how He is experienced by those who love Him), God also has other aspects to His nature, as He is portrayed in the Bible. (For clarification, this does not mean that the Biblical God is not “good†- it simply challenges our concepts of what “good†is. Paul deals with this issue in Romans 9:6-24, in part.)

Theseare only a few points on the “omni†issue, in an attempt to bring these popular concepts more in line with the Biblical presentation of God.

 

[lovely]

JMM,

I think there may be some threads that discuss Open Theism.

Omnipotent - I would say that the idea that God will not contradict His nature doesn't limit Him at all, but shows that all things are possible for Him because of His nature. God will not lie, but God does not have to lie to accomplish His will. I understand what you mean, and I agree that His nature is...though I am not sure it is in any way restrictive truly. If the truth sets us free, then God is the most free...definately more free than the deceiver.

Omnipresent - I am not sure the verse you are using applies here. If God does not occupy the thoughts of the wicked, then it just means that they have no thoughts of God...they do not believe in Him or think about Him.

Omniscient - I believe that God as our Creator is just simply not subject to the times and seasons He created.

Omnibenevolence - I think that God is Just, and I agree that we probably do not have good judgement about these things.

I am sure that others can give you a more intelligent discussion. The Lord bless you.

 

[JMM]

The discussion you gave was plenty intelligent, lovely! So let's address what you said:

Omnipotent - I would say that the idea that God will not contradict His nature doesn't limit Him at all, but shows that all things are possible for Him because of His nature. God will not lie, but God does not have to lie to accomplish His will. I understand what you mean, and I agree that His nature is...though I am not sure it is in any way restrictive truly. If the truth sets us free, then God is the most free...definately more free than the deceiver.

"In hope of eternal life, which God, that CANNOT lie, promised before the world began..." (Titus 1:2)
"If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he CANNOT deny himself." (2 Timothy 2:13)

He can still do all the things He says He can do - forgive sin, save souls, heal the sick, raise the dead, give eternal life, etc. But clearly there are certain things that the Bible itself says that He CANNOT do. However, He IS still God, and you're right that He is freer than any of us.

Omnipresent - I am not sure the verse you are using applies here. If God does not occupy the thoughts of the wicked, then it just means that they have no thoughts of God...they do not believe in Him or think about Him.

Okay, I guess you're right; the way that Psalm 10:4 is worded does seem to confirm your interpretation of it as more correct than mine. However, I still stand behind what I said earlier about Psalm 139:7-12 speaking more of God's presence with David than with actual "omnipresence".

Omniscient - I believe that God as our Creator is just simply not subject to the times and seasons He created.

Remember my initial example of God watching Adam to see what he would name the animals. He did that because He didn’t specifically know what Adam would do. "Will he call it a rat, a bat, or a cat?" Also, consider the fact that Jesus (God in the flesh) was amazed by certain people’s responses - pleasantly surprised when the centurion responded in faith.

Of course, He knows so much that He CAN accurately predict most certain things about the future, especially if non-free will forces are at work. And as I explained in my opening post, God is aware of all the possibilities that we might choose, and He is intelligent enough to guide the "game" to a desired end, and He knows how to respond to all our choices, but, technically, He does not know specifically what will be done by an individual in a given situation. He can even see what a person will eventually end up being, as He can evaluate a person’s DNA and upbringing.

Omnibenevolence - I think that God is Just, and I agree that we probably do not have good judgement about these things.

I agree with you that ultimately God is Just, and that our judgment about these things is quite inferior to His. We just do the best we can, working with the Scripture that is available to us, and with the guidance of the Spirit.

Keep in mind that, as I mentioned before, these "omni" words are only Greco-Roman philosophical constucts, superimposed on the original Hebrew theology. That having been said, I think that this view of a non-"omni" God may have strong possibilities for resolving the apparent conflict between free will and determinism. God’s power allows Him to determine or guide ultimate consequences (for both individuals and humankind as a whole), while allowing individual freedom within certain parameters.

 

[lovely]

He can still do all the things He says He can do - forgive sin, save souls, heal the sick, raise the dead, give eternal life, etc. But clearly there are certain things that the Bible itself says that He CANNOT do. However, He IS still God, and you're right that He is freer than any of us.

We agree that God can not lie. I don't believe that God's omnipotence is diminished even slightly by the fact that He can not go against His nature to lie. I think it's the point. Not being able to lie isn't's a lack of ability, it's a testimony to God's truthful nature. When I think of omnipotence I think of things like having the power to create, having the power over life and death, having the power to only tell the truth. I never think of being void of something as powerful...it's only weakness when one is absent of truth, or holiness, or lacking the ability to create something.

However, I still stand behind what I said earlier about Psalm 139:7-12 speaking more of God's presence with David than with actual "omnipresence".

We don't agree here. I think David is trying to conceive of, or articulate, God's omnipresent nature before Him in his worship. David can only worship God in truth, and so the attributes, even if only appied here to David's relationship, can only be true of God's nature if He is being worshipped for them.

Remember my initial example of God watching Adam to see what he would name the animals. He did that because He didn’t specifically know what Adam would do. "Will he call it a rat, a bat, or a cat?" Also, consider the fact that Jesus (God in the flesh) was amazed by certain people’s responses - pleasantly surprised when the centurion responded in faith.

I think God watched Adam giving the names because it brought Him glory and gave Him pleasure, not because He couldn't know what Adam would say. When my son was little the only word he ever said was 'no' for a while. Being a goofy mom, I never tired of asking him questions only to hear him use his word 'no'. I knew he would say it, but I continued asking anyway and eventually as he interacted with me new language was revealed to Him. I think God was doing something very similar with Adam...teaching him about the purpose of God's creation and man. Notice how God also used this process of classifying, or naming, animals to reveal to Adam that a wife could not be found among them (surely God had knowledge of this, being the Creator), and then God gifted him with a wife directly taken from his own body. This 'one flesh' picture of marriage, and of Christ and His church, was clearly demonstrated by an event that was actually very prophetic.

As far as the centurion, I think that this could also mean that he admired his faith...not that his faith surprised Him, but that it was set apart, a marvel compared to other men, and it was probably a great blessing to Jesus. I also think that this was for the benefit of those watching...Jesus does this a lot. I am amazed by the sunset. I marvel at the ocean. I don't do these things because I don't know about their existance, but because I admire them...they take my breath away due to their beauty and majesty. Jesus was admiring this man's faith much the same way, I believe.

Of course, He knows so much that He CAN accurately predict most certain things about the future, especially if non-free will forces are at work. And as I explained in my opening post, God is aware of all the possibilities that we might choose, and He is intelligent enough to guide the "game" to a desired end, and He knows how to respond to all our choices, but, technically, He does not know specifically what will be done by an individual in a given situation. He can even see what a person will eventually end up being, as He can evaluate a person’s DNA and upbringing.

I still have to disagree, I think that the pattern in the whole of the Word shows that God's abilities are far above what you have described here. I don't believe that there is such a thing as libertarian free-will. Man's will is not free from the sin and corruption that has condemned him...these things operate directly on us, and our will. Once we are saved, God also acts directly upon our will. I realize I am oversimplifying this, but it's late here. The Lord bless you.