Because they received not the Love of the Truth!

[savedbygrace57]

2 thess 2:



10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

God is righteous in all His works, even reprobation !

Why is is that they did not receive the Love of the Truth ?

#1. Its because its not Gods will for them to be saved, for if it was His will, then they would be sanctified by the Spirit unto belief of the Truth, as vs 13 points out:

13But [In contrast to what was written in vs 10-12] we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

For this is Gods will, even our sanctification see 1 thess 4:3 !

Gods Truth is sanctified [set apart] and so only those who are made Holy and Sanctified can receive it.

#2. They do not receive it, because it has not been given to them to receive it !

Jn 3:


27John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.

Also James 1:

17Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

18Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

We must be first born of the Truth, to receive it, and thats a perfect gift of God.

#3. They did not receive the Truth, because they had no love for it ! One must be of the Truth to Love the Truth Jn 18:

37Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

We must be of the Truth to Hear Truth and Love it, for even Christ is The Truth Jn 14:6




#4. They do not receive the Truth because they were not objects of Christ Prayer that those given him of the Father was, that they would sanctified by the Truth Jn 17:


17Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

18As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

19And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they [All given to Him of the Father] also might be sanctified through the truth.

And to make certain that its understood that this prayer was not limited to His then disciples He adds:

20Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

It included all them that shall believe through their word, so this shows that their would be people yet to be sanctified by the Truth, even people who were not yet born.

#5. They did not receive the Love of the Truth that they might be saved, because they had not from the beginning been Chosen to salvation vs 13


13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

And so all such, God is Just in giving them over to a lie, to be deceived, which is the exact opposite of His beloved Elect, for it is impossible for them to be finally deceived Matt 24:


24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Yes, before conversion, new birth, even the elect are deceived according to Paul:

Titus 3:3

For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

But God delivers us, for Christ sake.

 

[Nathan]

#1. Its because its not Gods will for them to be saved, for if it was His will, then they would be sanctified by the Spirit unto belief of the Truth

Eze 18:23-32 "Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord God, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live? But when a righteous person turns away from his righteousness and does injustice and does the same abominations that the wicked person does, shall he live? None of the righteous deeds that he has done shall be remembered; for the treachery of which he is guilty and the sin he has committed, for them he shall die. "Yet you say, 'The way of the Lord is not just.' Hear now, O house of Israel: Is my way not just? Is it not your ways that are not just? When a righteous person turns away from his righteousness and does injustice, he shall die for it; for the injustice that he has done he shall die. Again, when a wicked person turns away from the wickedness he has committed and does what is just and right, he shall save his life. Because he considered and turned away from all the transgressions that he had committed, he shall surely live; he shall not die. Yet the house of Israel says, 'The way of the Lord is not just.' O house of Israel, are my ways not just? Is it not your ways that are not just? "Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, declares the Lord God. Repent and turn from all your transgressions, lest iniquity be your ruin. Cast away from you all the transgressions that you have committed, and make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! Why will you die, O house of Israel? For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Lord God; so turn, and live."

#2. They do not receive it, because it has not been given to them to receive it !

Psa 145:18 The LORD is near to all who call on him, to all who call on him in truth.

Jhn 17:8-20 "For I have given them the words that you gave me, and they have received them and have come to know in truth that I came from you; and they have believed that you sent me. I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours....I have given them your word, and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world....As you sent me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be sanctified in truth. "I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word,"

#3. They did not receive the Truth, because they had no love for it !

1Jo 4:13 "By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit. And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. By this is love perfected with us, so that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is so also are we in this world. There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love. We love because he first loved us."

#4. They do not receive the Truth because they were not objects of Christ Prayer that those given him of the Father was, that they would sanctified by the Truth Jn 17:

Jhn 17:19-20 "And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be sanctified in truth. "I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word,

#5. They did not receive the Love of the Truth that they might be saved, because they had not from the beginning been Chosen to salvation vs 13

Eze 18:23-32 "Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord God, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live? But when a righteous person turns away from his righteousness and does injustice and does the same abominations that the wicked person does, shall he live? None of the righteous deeds that he has done shall be remembered; for the treachery of which he is guilty and the sin he has committed, for them he shall die. "Yet you say, 'The way of the Lord is not just.' Hear now, O house of Israel: Is my way not just? Is it not your ways that are not just? When a righteous person turns away from his righteousness and does injustice, he shall die for it; for the injustice that he has done he shall die. Again, when a wicked person turns away from the wickedness he has committed and does what is just and right, he shall save his life. Because he considered and turned away from all the transgressions that he had committed, he shall surely live; he shall not die. Yet the house of Israel says, 'The way of the Lord is not just.' O house of Israel, are my ways not just? Is it not your ways that are not just? "Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, declares the Lord God. Repent and turn from all your transgressions, lest iniquity be your ruin. Cast away from you all the transgressions that you have committed, and make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! Why will you die, O house of Israel? For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Lord God; so turn, and live."




Mat 3:9 And do not presume to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father,' for I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children for Abraham.

1Cr 10:12 Therefore let anyone who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall.

 

[savedbygrace57]

nathan:

Psa 145:18 The LORD is near to all who call on him, to all who call on him in truth.

How can one call upon the Lord unless they are first quickened [ made alive] ?

ps 80:

18So will not we go back from thee: quicken us, and we will call upon thy name.

Also, how can one call upon the Lord in Truth, if they are not of the Truth first.

Jn 18:37

Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

So why dont you try addressing the points I have given, and show how they are wrong if you can ?

Spiritually dead sinners, alienated from the Life of God, at enmity with Him by nature, do not call upon the Lord in Truth.

They do not even seek the Lord rom 3:

11There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. [except nathan]

 

[Nathan]

nathan:



How can one call upon the Lord unless they are first quickened [ made alive] ?

ps 80:

18So will not we go back from thee: quicken us, and we will call upon thy name.

Also, how can one call upon the Lord in Truth, if they are not of the Truth first.

Jn 18:37

Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

So why dont you try addressing the points I have given, and show how they are wrong if you can ?

Spiritually dead sinners, alienated from the Life of God, at enmity with Him by nature, do not call upon the Lord in Truth.

They do not even seek the Lord rom 3:

11There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. [except nathan]

You can try. But you will not suck me into an argument. You have taken some 'passages' and interpreted them one way. I just leave the passages in their context and allow those that will to look them up for themselves. Better for them to seek after God.

They do not even seek the Lord rom 3:

11There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. [except nathan]

:shocked! What version are you reading? I have got to get my hands on one of those!

 

[Nathan]

If you really want to have a good 'discussion', then lets do it civil...shall we?

I have addressed your topics by posting Scripture that discounts it. Now, you have addressed some of my reply, but what say ye about Ezekiel 18?

Address that passage, and I will be glad to continue.

Eze 18:1-32 "The word of the LORD came to me: "What do you mean by repeating this proverb concerning the land of Israel, 'The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge'? As I live, declares the Lord God, this proverb shall no more be used by you in Israel. Behold, all souls are mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is mine: the soul who sins shall die."

"If a man is righteous and does what is just and right--if he does not eat upon the mountains or lift up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, does not defile his neighbor's wife or approach a woman in her time of menstrual impurity, does not oppress anyone, but restores to the debtor his pledge, commits no robbery, gives his bread to the hungry and covers the naked with a garment, does not lend at interest or take any profit, withholds his hand from injustice, executes true justice between man and man, walks in my statutes, and keeps my rules by acting faithfully--he is righteous; he shall surely live, declares the Lord God."

"If he fathers a son who is violent, a shedder of blood, who does any of these things (though he himself did none of these things), who even eats upon the mountains, defiles his neighbor's wife, oppresses the poor and needy, commits robbery, does not restore the pledge, lifts up his eyes to the idols, commits abomination, lends at interest, and takes profit; shall he then live? He shall not live. He has done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood shall be upon himself."

"Now suppose this man fathers a son who sees all the sins that his father has done; he sees, and does not do likewise: he does not eat upon the mountains or lift up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, does not defile his neighbor's wife, does not oppress anyone, exacts no pledge, commits no robbery, but gives his bread to the hungry and covers the naked with a garment, withholds his hand from iniquity, takes no interest or profit, obeys my rules, and walks in my statutes; he shall not die for his father's iniquity; he shall surely live. As for his father, because he practiced extortion, robbed his brother, and did what is not good among his people, behold, he shall die for his iniquity."

"Yet you say, 'Why should not the son suffer for the iniquity of the father?' When the son has done what is just and right, and has been careful to observe all my statutes, he shall surely live. The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. "But if a wicked person turns away from all his sins that he has committed and keeps all my statutes and does what is just and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die. None of the transgressions that he has committed shall be remembered against him; for the righteousness that he has done he shall live."

"Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord God, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live? But when a righteous person turns away from his righteousness and does injustice and does the same abominations that the wicked person does, shall he live? None of the righteous deeds that he has done shall be remembered; for the treachery of which he is guilty and the sin he has committed, for them he shall die."

"Yet you say, 'The way of the Lord is not just.' Hear now, O house of Israel: Is my way not just? Is it not your ways that are not just? When a righteous person turns away from his righteousness and does injustice, he shall die for it; for the injustice that he has done he shall die. Again, when a wicked person turns away from the wickedness he has committed and does what is just and right, he shall save his life. Because he considered and turned away from all the transgressions that he had committed, he shall surely live; he shall not die. Yet the house of Israel says, 'The way of the Lord is not just.' O house of Israel, are my ways not just? Is it not your ways that are not just?"

"Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, declares the Lord God. Repent and turn from all your transgressions, lest iniquity be your ruin. Cast away from you all the transgressions that you have committed, and make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! Why will you die, O house of Israel? For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Lord God; so turn, and live."

So what does savedbygrace57 declare?

 

[Nathan]

Ok, so I have some time on my hands and figured I would go ahead and throw out some more food for thought. You seem to understand that we get our translations of the Bible from the Greek and Hebrew texts. They are what we call the 'original' languages.

So lets peer into them, shall we?

Titus 2:11 "For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people..."

'"all" - pas (Including all the forms of declension)
1) individually
a) each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything
2) collectively
a) some of all types

"people" - anthrōpos
1) a human being, whether male or female
a) generically, to include all human individuals
b) to distinguish man from beings of a different order; of animals and plants, of from God and Christ, of the angels
c) with the added notion of weakness, by which man is led into a mistake or
prompted to sin
d) with the adjunct notion of contempt or disdainful pity
e) with reference to two fold nature of man, body and soul
f) with reference to the two fold nature of man, the corrupt and the truly
Christian man, conformed to the nature of God
g) with reference to sex, a male
2) indefinitely, someone, a man, one
3) in the plural, people
4) joined with other words, merchantman


In the passage above, the word "all" is used to describe "people".

So, are the original languages wrong? Are they not clear enough in their description?

 

[savedbygrace57]

Reprobation !



Rom 11:

7What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded or hardened.

As God has chosen who shall believe the Truth by a sanctifying work of The Spirit 2 thess 2:

13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

God has also chosen who will not believe the Truth, but believe a lie 2 thess 2:

11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Notice the but of contrast in vs 13..

Now, as there is a decree of God in election to salvation, likewise God has a eternal decree of rebrobation, and this decree defines who God is not going to save, but condemn them for their sins Jude 1:

4For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Just as God from of old ordained to condemn these false teachers, so likewise He did other unsaved sinners as well. God could have saved everyone without exception, but since everyone is not saved, then it should be concluded that God deliberately chose not to save them and punish them for their sins. God chose not to bless them with the sanctifying work of the Spirit unto belief of the Truth 2 thess 2 13 but to leave them in unbelief and to die in their sins Jn 8:24

I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

And of course one cannot believe on Him unless its given [bestowed] phil 1:


29For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;