BURYING THE OLD MAN

[Overcomer7]

Rom 6:3-7 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Baptism symbolizes the burial and resurrection of Christ. Baptism is a watery grave. We do not go into the water to die. Only the dead are buried. In baptism we symbolically bury the old man of sin. Why does Paul call him the old man? Because he is dead. When did he die? He died when he was crucified. The old man was crucified with Christ. When we repented and believed the gospel, the old man was crucified. That is when we become free from sin. Verse 7 tells us 'For he that is dead is freed from sin.' It is improper to bury that which is alive. Baptism truly makes sense when we realize that we are saved from sin and that the old man is crucified. You can now bury him. If the person is not regenerated before baptism, that person ought not to be baptized for we would be burying someone alive and kicking.

The regenerated person is alive spiritually. The old man of sin is dead and can and needs to be buried. Paul in Rom 6:11 says this of the regenerated person, 'Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.' The old man is crucified with Christ but he is not done away with. Baptism does not get rid of the old man. The tug of war mentioned in Romans 7 continues. We have to be ever watchful for the old man of sin is still present making war with the new man. Baptism is but a symbol even as the Lord's Supper. We do not think that we are eating the literal body of Christ (even though Christ said, 'Take, eat; this is my body'). We also should not think that baptism literally washes away sin or the strange doctrine that we contact the blood of Christ in baptism.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Rom 6:3-7 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Baptism symbolizes the burial and resurrection of Christ.

The scripture speaks of actuality, not symbolism.

Baptism is a watery grave. We do not go into the water to die. Only the dead are buried.

By baptism, we are immersed into Christ, killed with Him and buried with Him.

In baptism we symbolically bury the old man of sin. Why does Paul call him the old man? Because he is dead. When did he die? He died when he was crucified. The old man was crucified with Christ.

The scripture speaks of actuality, not symbolism.

When we repented and believed the gospel, the old man was crucified.

The scripture you just posted said when we were crucified with Christ.
At our immersion into Him and into His death and burial.

That is when we become free from sin. Verse 7 tells us 'For he that is dead is freed from sin.' It is improper to bury that which is alive. Baptism truly makes sense when we realize that we are saved from sin and that the old man is crucified. You can now bury him. If the person is not regenerated before baptism, that person ought not to be baptized for we would be burying someone alive and kicking.

Regeneration happens at our resurrection with Christ.
Rom 6:4-5 spells it out..."Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:"

The regenerated person is alive spiritually. The old man of sin is dead and can and needs to be buried. Paul in Rom 6:11 says this of the regenerated person, 'Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.' The old man is crucified with Christ but he is not done away with. Baptism does not get rid of the old man.

That would mean that Rom 6:6 was wrong.
It is written..."Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."
The old man is not only gone, it was destroyed !
A new creature was then raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.

The tug of war mentioned in Romans 7 continues.

Not if Rom 6:6 is true.

We have to be ever watchful for the old man of sin is still present making war with the new man. Baptism is but a symbol even as the Lord's Supper. We do not think that we are eating the literal body of Christ (even though Christ said, 'Take, eat; this is my body'). We also should not think that baptism literally washes away sin or the strange doctrine that we contact the blood of Christ in baptism.

Our opinions are different.

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

The scripture speaks of actuality, not symbolism.

By baptism, we are immersed into Christ, killed with Him and buried with Him.

The scripture speaks of actuality, not symbolism.

The scripture you just posted said when we were crucified with Christ.
At our immersion into Him and into His death and burial.

Regeneration happens at our resurrection with Christ.
Rom 6:4-5 spells it out..."Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:"

That would mean that Rom 6:6 was wrong.
It is written..."Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."
The old man is not only gone, it was destroyed !
A new creature was then raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.

Not if Rom 6:6 is true.

Our opinions are different.

You folks are dealing with the "already-not yet" of the Good News. Both are true. Our old, sinful flesh is already dead, pictured by our entry into the water, but sin still remains in us, as Paul illustrates for us in chapter 7 and in his many commands of chapters 12 through 16. We are dead to sin in principle but not in practice yet.

 

[Hopeful 2]

You folks are dealing with the "already-not yet" of the Good News. Both are true.

I find that oxymoron doubtful.

Our old, sinful flesh is already dead,

Yes, actually, destroyed. (Rom 6:6)

pictured by our entry into the water,

Facilitated by our "immersion" into Christ's death at our water baptism. (Rom 6:5)

but sin still remains in us, as Paul illustrates for us in chapter 7 and in his many commands of chapters 12 through 16. We are dead to sin in principle but not in practice yet.

I have a different understanding of Rom 7 that allows us to be free of sin.
First, Paul says early on in Rom 7, that he is no longer in the "flesh". (v5)
Then narrates his past while still in the "flesh", and trying, unsuccessfully, to satisfy God with Law keeping.
He ends that narrative with verses 23 and 24, which have been answered in Rom 8:2 and Rom 6:6.
Finally, he gives credit to God through Jesus Christ for allowing his mind to overrule his "flesh". (v25)

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

I'm not free of sin, even though I've been a believer for 66 years at the age of 82. I still get impatient, impulsive, angry, anxious, escapist, in a word, selfish, which is the central feature of sin. God has enabled me to keep my outward actions under control, but my inner life still has qualities that need more improvement.

I am free of God's condemnation of my self-centeredness but not free of it, though through prayer and God's Word, it is improving. God has used the power of Jesus' resurrection to give me progress but not perfection.