Can We Finally Settle This Issue of Justifcation?

[AVBunyan]

Hey folks - getting saved is a bit more than you choosing Christ then believing a message and then seeking to obey to then hang on to what you think you have. Your powerful faith and belief doesn't make Calvary come alive and then it is applied to you.

Below is what I believe regarding justification - I'd be interested in seeing your take on what you believe the scriptures teach regarding salvation.


I.What is Justification?

A.The Problem
I was born a sinner -Rom. 3:23, dead in trespasses in sin - Eph. 2:1, at enmity with God -Rom. 8, blinded - II Cor. 4:4), dead to spiritual things - I Cor. 2:14), not seeking God - Rom. 3:8 and on my way to a lake of fire because of the sin that dwelt in me - Rom. 5:12; Rev. 20:15. There was nothing I could do to get out of this mess - Rom. 4:5; Eph. 2:8,9; Tit. 3:5

B.The Provision
Because of sin God has to judge sin and the penalty for sin. Something or someone has to be the sin payment in order for man to be redeemed from death in hell for eternity. In the OT God provided the sacrifices so their sins could be overlooked for a time. But God is gracious in that He desires to display His love and mercy. Man cannot meet the requirements that God demands -Tit. 3:5; Rom. 3:10-12; Isa. 64:6; Psa. 39:5. The law cannot redeem man - Rom. 8:3; Gal. 2:21; 3:11, 12. God has to provide a blood substitute and it has to be perfect blood to redeem imperfect man - Acts 20:28. The only way to redeem man is to have a perfect man redeem imperfect man and that man is the man Christ Jesus who became our sin substitute on Cavalry - Rom. 5:8; II Cor. 5:21. When Christ hung on the cross he became sin for us. The wrath of God that poured out on Christ should have been for us but Christ took our place - II Cor. 5:21. Andrias Tobias in the 1600’s said, “All God’s wrath was poured out on Christ so there is none left for the believerâ€Â.

C. The Deliverance
Then one day I was given the gospel - I Cor. 15:1-5; God took the blinders off - Rom. 10:17; II Cor. 4:5,6; God gave me the faith of Jesus Christ - Eph. 2:8,9; Rom. 3:22; Gal. 2:16; enabled me to believe - Eph. 1:13; regenerated me - Tit. 3:5; reconciled me -Rom. 5:10; spiritually circumcised me - Col. 2:10-12; sealed me - Eph. 1:13; put me into the body of Christ - Eph. 4:5; Col. 2:10-12; glorified me - Rom. 8:30; redeemed me - Col. 1:14; Gal. 3:13; made me an adopted son - Rom. 8:15; made me accepted in the beloved - Eph. 1:6; blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ - Eph. 1:3; forgave me - Eph. 1:7; raised me up - Eph. 2:6; made me bone of his bone and flesh of his flesh - Eph. 5:30; gave me an inheritance - Eph. 1:11, came in to me - Col. 1:27, and completed me - Col. 2:10 and a few more that we don’t have to go into now.

II. My Duty After Justification
Real clear – walk worthy - Eph. 4:1; live godly - Tit. 2:12, be not conformed to this world - Rom. 12:2; study - II Tim. 2:15; pray - Phil. 4:6; forgive others - Eph. 4:32; love my wife (Eph. 5); witness - II Cor. 5:20; be thankful - I Thess. 5:18, and the list goes on and on. So I don’t just stop at believing for after believing and being saved the real work begins - Phil. 2:12.

III. Closing Remarks
As you can see salvation is not dependent upon anything man can do. Man is justified by what Christ did at Calvary alone. Because he did nothing to earn salvation he can do nothing to lose what is not his. The work was not the sinners but Christ’s, the faith the sinner exercised was not his but Christ’s Rom. 3:22, Eph. 2:8,9, the sealing was not the sinners but Christ’s so what was left for man to do? All the sinner could do was to take God at His word that Christ did it all.

God bless

 

[gingercat]

Yes, AV,

We have to agree to diagree big time. I severly disagree with OSAS and Calvinists. :evil:

 

[belovedwolfofgod]

How can I be saved. What is the requirements. What are the nuts and bolts of it.

 

[AVBunyan]

We have to agree to diagree big time. I severly disagree with OSAS and Calvinists.

And after reading thorugh all your posts I can see why you don't see it..

How can I be saved. What is the requirements.

Reread the initial post with all the references
1. Believe you are a sinner and cannot save yourself
2. Believe the gospel of I Cor. 15:1-5
3. Flee to Christ iand call upon God to save you

 

[gingercat]

"
And after reading thorugh all your posts I can see why you don't see it..
"

I dont trust anyone who just relies on their theology. It seems that theology pushers are almost worshiping theology.

You cannot fingerpoint at the Catholics because you are doing almost the same thing as them.

 

[AVBunyan]

I dont trust anyone who just relies on their theology. It seems that theology pushers are almost worshiping theology.

Since you have judged me by telling me I worship theology then I ahave the right to judge you - Below is the reason why you can't understand what I've posted - now read real close - I even posted the scriptures so you won't have to look them up.

1 Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

2 Cor 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

Have a nice evening

 

[gingercat]

I dont trust anyone who just relies on their theology. It seems that theology pushers are almost worshiping theology.

Since you have judged me by telling me I worship theology then I ahave the right to judge you - Below is the reason why you can't understand what I've posted - now read real close - I even posted the scriptures so you won't have to look them up.

1 Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

2 Cor 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

Have a nice evening

I give these back to you to, AV.

From my point you are so blind in your theology. Your theology takes a pick from scriptures instead of interpreting as a whole.

 

[AVBunyan]

Your theology takes a pick from scriptures instead of interpreting as a whole.

Better than anything you've posted for you have posted nothing but your own personal thoughts - no scripture - no nothing -
I stand by why the gospel is hid from you.

 

[gingercat]

Your theology takes a pick from scriptures instead of interpreting as a whole.

Better than anything you've posted for you have posted nothing but your own personal thoughts - no scripture - no nothing -
I stand by why the gospel is hid from you.

I don't list verses like a pharisee. All you are doing is showing off how many verses you can quote without knowing how to use them in the real life.

The Bible should be used to do good deeds and not argue with in a forum.

 

[Solo]

Your theology takes a pick from scriptures instead of interpreting as a whole.

Better than anything you've posted for you have posted nothing but your own personal thoughts - no scripture - no nothing -
I stand by why the gospel is hid from you.

I don't list verses like a pharisee. All you are doing is showing off how many verses you can quote without knowing how to use them in the real life.

The Bible should be used to do good deeds and not argue with in a forum.

That is because you do not know the Word of God and couldn't put an intelligent argument together with verses of scripture. All you know is how to attack others and claim to be a believer. Your fruits are no where close to being that of a believer.

 

[AVBunyan]

That is because you do not know the Word of God and couldn't put an intelligent argument together with verses of scripture. All you know is how to attack others and claim to be a believer. Your fruits are no where close to being that of a believer.

Thanks Solo - I appreciate it - glad you noticed this also - easy to see.

God bless

 

[gingercat]

That is because you do not know the Word of God and couldn't put an intelligent argument together with verses of scripture. All you know is how to attack others and claim to be a believer. Your fruits are no where close to being that of a believe

Solo,

From your overall posts, you are expert at listing up verses. Even satan used Scripture to tempt Jesus. Knowing the Bible is nothing unless you know how to practice it. We need more Christians who practice the Bible instead of just arguing tt. There are too many scholars and not enough workers.
The harvest is plentiful but workers are few.

I am using it how in practice and not just in knowledge. I am living the Bible.

It seems that you are just interested in shutting up people you don't like.

 

[JM]

AV, good post. Rock solid.

Peace.

 

[Drew]

All the sinner could do was to take God at His word that Christ did it all.

I agree - but neither does this statement nor the content of Ephesians 2:8-9 do any damage to the position that an act of free will acceptance is involved in effecting man's salvation.

 

[AVBunyan]

All the sinner could do was to take God at His word that Christ did it all.

I agree - but neither does this statement nor the content of Ephesians 2:8-9 do any damage to the position that an act of free will acceptance is involved in effecting man's salvation.

But Drew - the lost sinner who is dead to spiritual things will not and cannot respond of its own power until God's Spirit quickens him so he can respond.

The greatest illustration of this is found in II Cor. 4:3-6 - read closely I believe this passage to be a real blessing for some - the darkened world or Gen. 1:2 could not come alive until God said, "Let there be light!" The world could not get the light apart from God speaking. So the sinner cannot come alive on its own to choose. All glory to God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

God bless

 

[AVBunyan]

I am using it how in practice and not just in knowledge. I am living the Bible.

How just do you know Solo is not using it in practice - just who are you anyway that you can know how people live?

You are as proud as a peacock and trusting your "living the Bible" for your salvation.

 

[Drew]

The greatest illustration of this is found in II Cor. 4:3-6 - read closely....

Hi AV:

I think that the most problematic part of this text for us "non-Calvinists" is the part about how the god of this age has blinded the minds of the unbelievers so that they cannot believe the gospel. I understand how you read this as supporting a Calvinist type position.

However, I think that the text is also consistent with the following interpretation: Men have, of their own free will, allowed Satan (I assume that Satan = "the god of this age") entry to their hearts and minds. Once this has happened, it is indeed the case that Satan blinds the mind so that the person simply cannot come to believe in the gospel.

However, the text is essentially non-commital on how it came to be the case that Satan gained control of the human mind - there is no statement here that rules out, or even argues against, the notion that a free will act of opening oneself up to Satan is a pre-condition for being blinded. I certainly can accept the idea that, once admitted, Satan may gain such power over the person that they simply cannot come to believe. However, I see no compelling reason to assume that a free will act was not responsible for giving entry to Satan in the first place.

In short, I think this text is consistent with both "Calvinist" and "non-Calvinist" views about the role (or non-role) of free will acts in effecting salvation.