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Children: to spank or not to spank, that is the question

V

Vanguard

Guest
I have a 4 year old who can be the sweetest angel, but then the next day he wakes up on the wrong side of the bed and won't listen to anything that is said to him. When he is in that mood, he becomes defiant, argumentative, raises his voice, etc.

:grumpy

I blame my wife (I know how that sounds) but she is the same way. Fussy, argumentative, quick to snap, raises her voice all the time. She taught him those habits. I even warned her of it when he was born.

:mad

She is quick to spank him for the smallest thing. I do not like to spank, preferring to use time outs, simple lectures, taking away toys or TV time, etc. Ironically, nothing seems to really phase him. Should I start spanking him too?

:dunno
 
A kid that moody I would check for allergies, wife also... seems to this grandma spanking is not done enough or it is way over done.... A grandchild would not stop heading for the street just would not, so grandma applied the lessen to back side, he did not head for the street...

The Bible teaching the rod is for those who lack understanding.... implies to me an effort to teach to impose understanding... as in don't go in the street over and over... then the rod or in my case a good swat.
The child knows both of you he knows how to push your /her buttons they will play you against one another. they are not smarter then the grownups but we sure forget how smart they are...then they gets us :) The fewer rules the less that must be enforced.. If I could go back 48 years I would make very few rules be more consistent with those few rules.... spank way less... way less...
If you find yourself arguing? with a 4 year old just think about it...

A bit off topic I sadly remember saying things to my kids like ok who broke the_____? when I grew up I realized I set them up to lie.
 
Vanguard said:
I have a 4 year old who can be the sweetest angel, but then the next day he wakes up on the wrong side of the bed and won't listen to anything that is said to him. When he is in that mood, he becomes defiant, argumentative, raises his voice, etc.

:grumpy

I blame my wife (I know how that sounds) but she is the same way. Fussy, argumentative, quick to snap, raises her voice all the time. She taught him those habits. I even warned her of it when he was born.

:mad

She is quick to spank him for the smallest thing. I do not like to spank, preferring to use time outs, simple lectures, taking away toys or TV time, etc. Ironically, nothing seems to really phase him. Should I start spanking him too?

:dunno
Click to expand...

It's not the spanking that teaches a child wrong. In it's core, it is attributing an undesirable consequence to an undesirable action. In other words, the child does something wrong, and gets a spanking. The spanking can be substituted with anything else that relates to an undesirable consequence. Why? If a child knows you will dish out a punishment for what they do wrong, they are unlikely to do wrong. You could simply tell them "If you do X, then you won't get Y" and it will work. The problem in most family units, is that they have absolutely NO tact. They choose not to spank, but at the same time, they choose not to dish out any other form of punishment. When you see a child crying in a supermarket, and the mom gives the child something to stop them, then she has lost. That child will then continue to act in a supermarket until something is done to meet the actions with just consequence. Think of it as a big game. The child will ALWAYS be jostling with both you and your wife for dominance in the house. Don't suppress your child by giving him what he wants, but follow through with a punishment for his actions. Both you and your wife need to do this. So if you have chosen a spanking as your means of consequence, then both of you do so. However, if your wife becomes unreasonable with the spanking, it is your job to correctly guide her (as the head of the household).

Just remember that spanking isn't some sort of magical parenting tool. It won't accomplish more than any other variable'd consequence will. It's all about following through with the consequence.
 
Spare the rod,spoil the child.

Reasoning alone sometimes just wont reach a child,mostly because theyre just choosing to be stubborn and not listen.At other times its a mixture of that and the fact that their little intellects cant grasp the bigger picture youre trying to teach them.The introduction and proper application of painful stimulus to the rear shows them a consequence for their behavior,particularly when raising his voice at you,refusing to obey,etc.

I can recall various friends through the years who werent spanked as children and for the most part they were the ones who lacked a true respect for authority and exhibited behavior problems in general.

Every kid is different though and honestly it just sounds as if you have one that can be particularly strong-willed at times even for his age.Spanking may work,or other tactics may prove more useful.I thnk the most critical thing though is how you both tackle him as a team.Work together on the discipline and dont undermine each other.If one tells him to do something both should uphold it.One side or the other being more strict or lax than the other and allowing him to get out of trouble will only teach him how to manipulate.

Fortunately my step-daughter has been a real good kid.Shes so tender-hearted that all we really have to do is raise our voice or get serious with her in general and she snaps back into shape.Then you have the other side of the spectrum..a friend of mine has struggled with his step-son for over 8 years now.Spankings were ineffective,as were groundings, and anything else he could think of.Even trying to encourage the kid when he did good just didnt get through to him.You can do the best you can but sometimes its just up to the child on whether or not he wants to cooperate.
 
Reba, how can anyone from northern California have got so smart? (That is a paraphrase of how can anything good come out of Nazareth?)
I give you a big AMEN!.
Spankings should be an event but not a beating. They should never be done to vent our own frustration but simply to correct and guide. They are a teaching tool in the best sense. Using alternatives is good if it works. Many times kids can only get our attention if they misbehave. Then even a spanking is better than being ignored.
Giving them plenty of quality time, small chores and working with them teaching as you go (like bed making or filling dishwasher), instructional play and simple board games (not x boxes), all help.
Our 4 year old (horrible 4s) used to do the temper tantrum in the middle of the grocery store. I did what the child development books said to do and ignored him. It grew worse for months till I gave him a good spanking with all the onlookers watching. Today I would be arrested so I would have had to take him out to the car to do it. And I had to do this on 2 occasions before he stopped.
But the onlookers had reinforced his behavior and only the spanking helped.

All I can say is good luck! Every kid is different. Our second one was strong willed. I take some comfort in the fact that his daughter is even stronger willed.
And yes they spanked.

Consistancy is the big thing. You can't turn your head very far because you have to be listening and watching out of the corner of your eye at all times. Not easy.
But the most important thing is to enjoy your kids just the way they are. They are being a normal 4 year old who must be corrected. So, accept them, love them, correct them and educate them--the board of correction on the seat of knowledge if necessary.
 
Spare the rod and spoil the child.

What is the rod in the Bible? Is it a stick?

No it is the rod of authority. Moses rod. Ps 23. "thy rod and thy staff, they comfort me"

You are the parent and the authority in your home. When we don't take the rod of authority we can't accept a child to respect.

I have four grown children, I only spanked each one maybe two times ever. Spankings not beatings. They are all law abiding citzens, all work and care for themselves. The youngest is now attending bible college. All this was dispite my mistakes.
I have six grandchildren and their parents are not spankers but those little ones know that when dad or mom says no they mean it. There will be consequences. For active children time outs are torture.
 
Proverbs does contain that verse about sparing the rod, but it also contains many, many verses about hearing instruction. The reader is to hear the teaching of his father and mother. Teaching and instructing is a big part of raising children, and the rod is not the only method. If you can teach them through talking to them and get the same effect, I believe you should do that.

I believe it was James Dobson's book where I read that parents should spank only for rebellion. That's what I try to do with my kids. If one of my little ones says 'no' to an instruction (if he/she is old enough to realize what that means), then there is some immediate action. I don't here that word much. Yelling and name calling towards parents is another form of rebellion. But there are more subtle forms of it like ignoring parents when they say to do something is also rebellion.

It's also important to teach children not to talk to their parents any old way. They should speak with respect. One thing to keep in mind is that by teaching them to respect us, we are teaching them to obey the Lord on an important matter, one that can effect how long their life span is.
 
As a product of many punishments (the belt) I highly recommend spanking. It will do you good in the end.
 
There is nothing wrong with a good spanking, as long as it is done in love. The bible clearly tells us (as has already been posted) that to spare the rod, spoil the child.


The Bible teaches that physical discipline is appropriate, beneficial, and necessary. Do not misunderstand—we are by no means advocating child abuse. A child should never be disciplined physically to the extent that it causes actual physical damage. According to the Bible, though, the appropriate and restrained physical discipline of children is a good thing and contributes to the well-being and correct upbringing of the child.

Many Scriptures do in fact promote physical discipline. “Don't fail to correct your children. They won't die if you spank them. Physical discipline may well save them from death” (Proverbs 23:13-14; see also 13:24; 22:15; 20:30). The Bible strongly stresses the importance of discipline; it is something we must all have in order to be productive people, and it is much more easily learned when we are young. Children who are not disciplined often grow up rebellious, have no respect for authority, and as a result find it difficult to willingly obey and follow God. God Himself uses discipline to correct us and lead us down the right path and to encourage repentance for our wrong actions (Psalm 94:12; Proverbs 1:7; 6:23; 12:1; 13:1; 15:5; Isaiah 38:16; Hebrews 12:9).

In order to apply discipline correctly and according to biblical principles, parents must be familiar with the scriptural advice regarding discipline. The book of Proverbs contains plentiful wisdom regarding the rearing of children, such as, “The rod of correction imparts wisdom, but a child left to himself disgraces his mother” (Proverbs 29:15). This verse outlines the consequences of not disciplining a child—the parents are disgraced. Of course, discipline must have as its goal the good of the child and must never be used to justify the abuse and mistreatment of children. Never should it be used to vent anger or frustration.

Discipline is used to correct and train people to go in the right way. “No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it” (Hebrews 12:11). God's discipline is loving, as should it be between parent and child. Physical discipline should never be used to cause lasting physical harm or pain. Physical punishment should always be followed immediately by comforting the child with assurance that he/she is loved. These moments are the perfect time to teach a child that God disciplines us because He loves us and that, as parents, we do the same for our children.

Can other forms of discipline, such as “time-outs,” be used instead of physical discipline? Some parents find that their children do not respond well to physical discipline. Some parents find that “time-outs,” grounding, and/or taking something away from the children is more effective in encouraging behavioral change. If that is indeed the case, by all means, a parent should employ the methods that best produce the needed behavioral change. While the Bible undeniably advocates physical discipline, the Bible is more concerned with the goal of building godly character than it is in the precise method used to produce that goal.

Making this issue even more difficult is the fact that governments are beginning to classify all manner of physical discipline as child abuse. Many parents do not spank their children for fear of being reported to the government and risk having their children taken away. What should parents do if a government has made physical discipline of children illegal? According to Romans 13:1-7, parents should submit to the government. A government should never contradict God’s Word, and physical discipline is, biblically speaking, in the best interest of children. However, keeping children in families in which they will at least receive some discipline is far better than losing children to the “care” of the government.

In Ephesians 6:4, fathers are told not to exasperate their children. Instead, they are to bring them up in God’s ways. Raising a child in the “training and instruction of the Lord” includes restrained, corrective, and, yes, loving physical discipline.
http://www.gotquestions.org/disciplining-children.html
 
Let me just clarify that "spare the rod, spoil the child" is not found anywhere in the Bible.

Proverbs 13:24 does say (NASB) He who withholds his rod hates his son, But he who loves him disciplines him diligently.

However, that does not translate into a literal sense of "spank your children." The context is to discipline your children. Which method of discipline is your choice. Deborah is spot on with the interpretation of "rod of authority."
 
I have a 4 year old also and we have only spanked her a handful of times. A couple of times when running to the street, or trying to get into the grandparents pool without permission. If it is dangerous we spank, and maybe it works so well because we have only spanked her those few times. But it only took one or two spankings for her to stop!

I dont know how many little ones you have.. I have a 4 year old, a 2 year old and a 5 month old, so I can get pretty stressed out and get loud from time to time. I notice if I start slipping into crankiness the kids don't respond to discipline as well.

In my opinion spanking all the time is kind of trying to take the easy way out. It takes a few seconds to bend a kid over and spank them, but trying to keep them in time out at first is difficult, time consuming, etc. Not to mention spanking I would assume might help your wife relieve a little anger.

I have read the book "the power of a positive wife" by Kristen Ladd a few times and go back to certain chapters when I need to. It helps me SO MUCH when i'm starting to feel worn down, stressed, etc. She also wrote "the power of a positive mom" which I can't wait to get. Maybe pick it up for her?
 
ForumAddict said:
There is nothing wrong with a good spanking, as long as it is done in love. The bible clearly tells us (as has already been posted) that to spare the rod, spoil the child.


The Bible teaches that physical discipline is appropriate, beneficial, and necessary. Do not misunderstand—we are by no means advocating child abuse. A child should never be disciplined physically to the extent that it causes actual physical damage. According to the Bible, though, the appropriate and restrained physical discipline of children is a good thing and contributes to the well-being and correct upbringing of the child.

Many Scriptures do in fact promote physical discipline. “Don't fail to correct your children. They won't die if you spank them. Physical discipline may well save them from death” (Proverbs 23:13-14; see also 13:24; 22:15; 20:30). The Bible strongly stresses the importance of discipline; it is something we must all have in order to be productive people, and it is much more easily learned when we are young. Children who are not disciplined often grow up rebellious, have no respect for authority, and as a result find it difficult to willingly obey and follow God. God Himself uses discipline to correct us and lead us down the right path and to encourage repentance for our wrong actions (Psalm 94:12; Proverbs 1:7; 6:23; 12:1; 13:1; 15:5; Isaiah 38:16; Hebrews 12:9).

In order to apply discipline correctly and according to biblical principles, parents must be familiar with the scriptural advice regarding discipline. The book of Proverbs contains plentiful wisdom regarding the rearing of children, such as, “The rod of correction imparts wisdom, but a child left to himself disgraces his mother” (Proverbs 29:15). This verse outlines the consequences of not disciplining a child—the parents are disgraced. Of course, discipline must have as its goal the good of the child and must never be used to justify the abuse and mistreatment of children. Never should it be used to vent anger or frustration.

Discipline is used to correct and train people to go in the right way. “No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it” (Hebrews 12:11). God's discipline is loving, as should it be between parent and child. Physical discipline should never be used to cause lasting physical harm or pain. Physical punishment should always be followed immediately by comforting the child with assurance that he/she is loved. These moments are the perfect time to teach a child that God disciplines us because He loves us and that, as parents, we do the same for our children.

Can other forms of discipline, such as “time-outs,” be used instead of physical discipline? Some parents find that their children do not respond well to physical discipline. Some parents find that “time-outs,” grounding, and/or taking something away from the children is more effective in encouraging behavioral change. If that is indeed the case, by all means, a parent should employ the methods that best produce the needed behavioral change. While the Bible undeniably advocates physical discipline, the Bible is more concerned with the goal of building godly character than it is in the precise method used to produce that goal.

Making this issue even more difficult is the fact that governments are beginning to classify all manner of physical discipline as child abuse. Many parents do not spank their children for fear of being reported to the government and risk having their children taken away. What should parents do if a government has made physical discipline of children illegal? According to Romans 13:1-7, parents should submit to the government. A government should never contradict God’s Word, and physical discipline is, biblically speaking, in the best interest of children. However, keeping children in families in which they will at least receive some discipline is far better than losing children to the “care” of the government.

In Ephesians 6:4, fathers are told not to exasperate their children. Instead, they are to bring them up in God’s ways. Raising a child in the “training and instruction of the Lord” includes restrained, corrective, and, yes, loving physical discipline.
http://www.gotquestions.org/disciplining-children.html
Click to expand...

I think if you very seldom spank this is okay, but if a child is getting spanked almost every day and right after their parent hugs and loves on them...

As a victim of abuse, this seems to MAYBE instill in them that it's okay for someone to hurt you as long as they love you. I'm no psychologist, just an observation. Obviously not if it is every once in a while, but if the OP's wife is "quick to spank" she may spank daily or almost daily. To be hit/spanked every day by someone who also gives you a great deal of their love is an extremely confusing thing that causes a lot of issues in people in abusive relationships and I can see it having the same effect on a child.

Of course, kids and teenagers do bounce back incredibly well. Better than adults.
 
I've also noticed when my husband goes to the store and the house is full of sugary cereals and fruity yogurt that isn't really yogurt but corn syrup, etc, the kids are bouncing off the walls and generally seem to not handle their emotions as well. We know food dyes and additives are illegal in some countries because it has been proven that they cause behavior like this (as well as other things, I looked up the additive in my chex cereal, which I thought would be a good choice, and listed side effects included tumors and cancer.) Not to mention when the dyes are mixed together they create different side effects. We can't ignore these things anymore.

Not sure what your children's diets are like, but there is something to be said about a natural diet. I'm working really hard to clean these types of foods from our lives! If he does eat things like this I would try some testing of your own and see if you notice a change in your child.

God bless and I'll be praying for your family!
 
A lot of wisdom in this thread, I had a post all made up in my mind when I saw the title, but I see there is nothing I can add.
 
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