Current state of Israel

[rgswaim]

I asked my pastor if he considered the present Israel to be the one of prophesy in the Bible where the Jews return to the land God gave them hundreds of years ago. He said no and he thjought Israel came out of sympathy for the holocost. I personally do believe that Israel is the one prophesied in the Bible. Anyone else have an opinion?
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[Hitch]

I asked my pastor if he considered the present Israel to be the one of prophesy in the Bible where the Jews return to the land God gave them hundreds of years ago. He said no and he thjought Israel came out of sympathy for the holocost. I personally do believe that Israel is the one prophesied in the Bible. Anyone else have an opinion?
:

Which prophecy are you referring to ?

 

[rgswaim]

Which prophecy are you referring to ?

I don't know the exact verse. It is where the Jews return to their homeland before Jesus' return. I am not a Bible scholar, I do remember alot of what I was taught in Sunday School when I was younger. I often try to find things in the Bible but either can't find it or can't understand it when I do find it.

 

[Hitch]

There is an OT promise of a second return to the land. The first was accomplished when God brought Israel back from Egypt,the second occurred when the remnant came back to Jerusalem from Babylon.

Isaiah 11:11
And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

 

[sdktlk]

There is an OT promise of a second return to the land. The first was accomplished when God brought Israel back from Egypt,the second occurred when the remnant came back to Jerusalem from Babylon.

Isaiah 11:11
And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

Amen.

 

[rgswaim]

There is an OT promise of a second return to the land. The first was accomplished when God brought Israel back from Egypt,the second occurred when the remnant came back to Jerusalem from Babylon.

I'm not as well versed on the Bible as I would like to be. When did this second one occurr? Is that the one that came in 1948?

 

[Sinthesis]

I'm not as well versed on the Bible as I would like to be. When did this second one occurr? Is that the one that came in 1948?

It began in 538BC with the decree of Cyrus the Great. The books of Ezra and Nehemiah are about this, along with parts of other books.

 

[Prince]

I asked my pastor if he considered the present Israel to be the one of prophesy in the Bible where the Jews return to the land God gave them hundreds of years ago. He said no and he thjought Israel came out of sympathy for the holocost. I personally do believe that Israel is the one prophesied in the Bible. Anyone else have an opinion?
:

Well my belief is pretty simple ALNATIVE

And how ya doing?

The nation of Israel split in the 1st book of kings chp 12.

Kings 12:19 "So Israel rebelled against the house of David unto this day.

Israel broke up it was 12 tribes and they split,,,10 tribes called themselves Israel and the other 2 tribes called themselves Jews.(house of Judah)

Kings 12:23 " "Speak unto Rehoboam, the son of Solomon, king of Judah, and unto all the house of Judah and Benjamin, and to the remnant of the People, saying,"

The tribe of Benjamin joined the tribe of Judah so these 2 tribes now make up the Jews (some of the levites went with them)

After this the the house of Israel (10 tribes) were captured by Assyria, when they became free they were scattered and they traveled over the mountains and settled in the americas, they became known as celts brits anglosaxons exc.

But they forgot that they are really sons of the living God and they link all the way back to Abraham they are Israel, but they call themselves gentiles/christians.

Jesus said

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

True Israel has forgotten who they are, many of them live in the land of mlik and honey and are very blessed - they think they are gentiles..

Well when Jesus returns he will clear up all of that

Ezekiel 37:16 "Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, (jews) and for the children of Israel his companions: Then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:"


Ezekiel 37:17 "And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand."

Note there are really 13 tribes.

 

[Prince]

I'm not as well versed on the Bible as I would like to be. When did this second one occurr? Is that the one that came in 1948?

Yes but the date can be anywhere from 1948-1956

THe Jews (good figs) returned around this time, but the fake Jews (bad figs did also).

1The LORD shewed me, and, behold, two baskets of figs were set before the temple of the LORD, after that Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon had carried away captive Jeconiah the son of Jehoiakim king of Judah, and the princes of Judah, with the carpenters and smiths, from Jerusalem, and had brought them to Babylon.

2One basket had very good figs, even like the figs that are first ripe: and the other basket had very naughty figs, which could not be eaten, they were so bad. 3Then said the LORD unto me, What seest thou, Jeremiah? And I said, Figs; the good figs, very good; and the evil, very evil, that cannot be eaten, they are so evil.

 

[The_sandwich_maker]

[Part 1]
Yes pretty much so, Israel will be invade and taken captive again:
Isaiah:
11:11It shall come to pass in that day That the Lord shall set His hand again the SECOND TIME To recover the remnant of His people who are left, From Assyria and Egypt, From Pathros and Cush, From Elam and Shinar, From Hamath and the islands of the sea.
12He will set up a banner for the NATIONS, And will assemble the outcasts of Israel, And gather together the dispersed of Judah From the four corners of the earth.
49:22Thus says the Lord GOD: "Behold, I will lift My hand in an oath to the NATIONS, And set up My standard for the peoples; They shall bring your sons in their arms, And your daughters shall be carried on their shoulders;
54:3For you shall expand to the right and to the left, And your descendants will inherit the NATIONS, And make the DESOLATE cities inhabited.

Ezekiel:
11:16Therefore say, "Thus says the Lord GOD: "Although I have cast them far off among the Gentiles, and although I have scattered them among the countries, yet I shall be a little sanctuary for them in the countries where they have gone."' 17Therefore say, "Thus says the Lord GOD: "I will gather you from the peoples, assemble you from the COUNTRIES [NATIONS] where you have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel."'

The twelve tribes of Israel have not yet been united and at the moment there is just one tribe, Judah, who are today called the Israelite, living in Israel:

37:16"As for you, son of man, take a stick for yourself and write on it: "For Judah and for the children of Israel, his companions.' Then take another stick and write on it, "For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel, his companions.' 17Then join them one to another for yourself into one stick, and they will become one in your hand.

Jeremiah:
25:15For thus says the LORD God of Israel to me: "Take this WINE CUP of fury from My hand, and cause all the nations, to whom I send you, to drink it. [REVELATION EXPANDS ON THIS]
33:7And I will cause the captives of Judah and the captives of Israel to return, and will rebuild those places as at the first.
16In those days Judah will be saved, And Jerusalem will dwell safely. And this is the name by which she will be called: THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.'
Isaiah:
6:11Then I said, "Lord, how long?" And He answered: "Until the CITIES are laid waste and without inhabitant, The houses are without a man, The land is utterly DESOLATE,
62:6I have set watchmen on your walls, O Jerusalem; They shall never hold their peace day or night. You who make mention of the LORD, do not keep silent, 7And give Him no rest till He establishes And till He makes Jerusalem a praise in the earth.

Ezekiel:
3:17"At that time Jerusalem shall be called The Throne of the LORD, and ALL the NATIONS shall be gathered to it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem. No more shall they follow the dictates of their evil hearts.
18"In those days the house of JUDAH shall walk with the house of ISRAEL, and they shall come together out of the land of the north [Babylon] to the land that I have given as an inheritance to your fathers.

God describes the calamity that he is going to bring to Israel:

25:29For behold, I begin to bring calamity on the CITY which is called by My name, [Jeruslame] and should you be utterly unpunished? You shall not be unpunished, for I will call for a sword on ALL the inhabitants of the earth," says the LORD of hosts.' [Revelation expands on this]
9:4and the LORD said to him, "Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and put a MARK on the foreheads of the men who sigh and cry over all the abominations that are done within it." [Revelation expands on this]
6Utterly slay old and young men, maidens and little children and women; but do not come near anyone on whom is the MARK; and begin at My sanctuary [Temple]." So they began with the elders who were before the TEMPLE. [NOT YET BUILT IN JERUSALEM]
7Then He said to them, "Defile the temple, and fill the courts with the slain. Go out!" And they went out and killed in the city.

Zechariah:
47:9And it shall be that every living thing that moves, wherever the rivers go, will live. There will be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters go there; for they will be healed, and everything will live wherever the river goes. [See Revelation which expands on the river of life]

12Along the bank of the river, on this side and that, will grow all kinds of trees used for food; their leaves will not wither, and their fruit will not fail. They will bear fruit every month, because their water flows from the sanctuary. Their fruit will be for food, and their leaves for medicine."

 

[persecuted]

I agree with your pastor. For current Israel to be of biblical significance, I think it would have to be a much more Godly state and would be protected by God himself and not cash flows from America. Given the extremely high concentration of Jews in Hollywood, Hollywood's blatant lack of morals, and the support of Israel from these same people who seem to hate everything Christian, it is hard to believe that present day Israel should be respected as something important to God or Jesus. Much of the people who claim present day Israel represents a fullfilment of scriptures are failed televangelists who are getting financial kick backs directly from the Israeli government after losing their flocks from making bogus end of the world prophesies.

 

[Sinthesis]

Yes but the date can be anywhere from 1948-1956

THe Jews (good figs) returned around this time, but the fake Jews (bad figs did also).

No they did not. 2 This time read the whole chapter. It identifies exactly who the two groups of figs are, where they were, and what their fate was. This prophecy was fulfilled millennia ago. Those who try to distort this fact are usually just trying to justify their hate for the 'Jews' of today.

Jer 24:1 ¶ The LORD shewed me, and, behold, two baskets of figs [were] set before the temple of the LORD, after that Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon had carried away captive Jeconiah the son of Jehoiakim king of Judah, and the princes of Judah, with the carpenters and smiths, from Jerusalem, and had brought them to Babylon.
Jer 24:2 - One basket [had] very good figs, [even] like the figs [that are] first ripe: and the other basket [had] very naughty figs, which could not be eaten, they were so bad.
Jer 24:3 - Then said the LORD unto me, What seest thou, Jeremiah? And I said, Figs; the good figs, very good; and the evil, very evil, that cannot be eaten, they are so evil.
Jer 24:4 ¶ Again the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
Jer 24:5 - Thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel; Like these good figs, so will I acknowledge them that are carried away captive of Judah, whom I have sent out of this place into the land of the Chaldeans for [their] good.
Jer 24:6 - For I will set mine eyes upon them for good, and I will bring them again to this land: and I will build them, and not pull [them] down; and I will plant them, and not pluck [them] up.
Jer 24:7 - And I will give them an heart to know me, that I [am] the LORD: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God: for they shall return unto me with their whole heart.
Jer 24:8 ¶ And as the evil figs, which cannot be eaten, they are so evil; surely thus saith the LORD, So will I give Zedekiah the king of Judah, and his princes, and the residue of Jerusalem, that remain in this land, and them that dwell in the land of Egypt:
Jer 24:9 - And I will deliver them to be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth for [their] hurt, [to be] a reproach and a proverb, a taunt and a curse, in all places whither I shall drive them.
Jer 24:10 - And I will send the sword, the famine, and the pestilence, among them, till they be consumed from off the land that I gave unto them and to their fathers.​

 

[n2thelight]

Sinthesis

No they did not. 2 This time read the whole chapter. It identifies exactly who the two groups of figs are, where they were, and what their fate was. This prophecy was fulfilled millennia ago. Those who try to distort this fact are usually just trying to justify their hate for the 'Jews' of today.

Jeremiah 24:6 "For I will set mine eyes upon them for good, and I will bring them again to this land: and I will build them, and not pull them down; and I will plant them, and not pluck them up."

When this has taken place, and both fig baskets have returned to Jerusalem, as well as the events listed in Matthew 24, and Mark 13. These are the events which are the seven seals of Revelation and the seven trumpets that sound their taking place, God is saying that then He will establish them forever. Friend, this has to do with the end times, and our generation is the generation that will live to see it all come to pass. That part of our true brother Judah will always be there, and they will never be moved from that location in the nation of Israel, as well as Jerusalem.

Jeremiah 24:7 "And I will give them an heart to know me, that I am the LORD: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God: for they shall return unto me with their whole heart."

The entire tribes of both houses will know Jesus Christ as their Lord, and He will be their King and Lord forever. God is going to give all of His people the unction to know the truth when they hear the truth. The book of Hosea tells us of the returning of His people to Him, after the time of separation when God had divorced them. Friend, all of God's people will be for only Him during that time of the Millennium age, and not for the fake that will be removed from us then. God wants you loyalty, and your love toward Him.

The parable of the tares are directly tied to the parable of the fig tree. If you don't understand that parable, it will be almost impossible to understand the parable of the fig tree. That is Christ's words. There is an important reason that Christ cursed the fig tree, it is because when they understand the parable they will see the events come to life from off the pages of His Word. They are the signs of our times that allow our generation to keep from being deceived. It is the bad figs that we have to watch out for, because they are the ones that allow Satan to operate, and succeed in.

Jeremiah 24:8 "And as the evil figs, which cannot be eaten, they are so evil; surely thus saith the LORD, So will I give Zedekiah the king of Judah, and his princes, and the residue of Jerusalem, that remain in this land, and them that dwell in the land of Egypt:"

The first seven verses dealt with the future sense, and now we return to the historical aspect. This then is a type of what shall come to pass that we shall see. That is what prophecy is all about, remember what Paul said in I Corinthians 10:11 "Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come." They are warnings as to how the end of the world age shall come.

Remember that there were two baskets setting before the temple, and this is addressing the evil figs, which cannot be burned up or consumed. King Zedekiah's name was changed from Mattaniah by king Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon. Zedekiah means "the gift of Yahoveh" and his name was changed to "the justice of God". We see that there is justice in this because God warned him over and over through Jeremiah, and he refused to listen. It is the same in this generation, the people and the rulers are warned over and over what is about to happen, yet they would rather give a deaf ear, and not pay attention. Babylon is coming and it will happen exactly as it is written.

Jeremiah 24:9 "And I will deliver them to be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth for their hurt, to be a reproach and a proverb, a taunt and a curse, in all places whither I shall drive them."

When this king of Babylon comes, those that chose to turn away from God's Word and warnings, will be removed and placed into the kingdom of the Antichrist. There will be no kingdoms left on the face of the earth, Why? Because they will all be part of the one world system that controls the entire earth.

So historically that is exactly what happened when the House of Judah was hauled into Babylon, and held in captivity by Nebuchadnezzar's one world system. Then when they were finally released to return to rebuild the city, the walls and streets of Jerusalem, there was a large mixture of these Kenites [Nethinims] with them. Ezra told us that they were the ones that had taken over the priesthood and the duties of the scribes, in the return, and about half of those claiming to be of Judah were actually Kenites.

I Chronicles 2:55 "And the families of the scribes which dwelt at Jabez [Jerusalem]; the Tirathites, the Shimeathites, and Suchathites. these are the Kenites that came of Hemath, the father of the house of Rechab." These are all part of the group referred to in verse eight as the "residue of Jerusalem".

The prophecy has yet to be fulfilled,(completly)it will not be until both houses are joined back together and that won't happen until the return of Christ

Jeremiah 24:10 "And I will send the sword, the famine, and the pestilence, among them, till they be consumed from off the land that I gave unto them and to their fathers."

This is God speaking. In the historical sense, it came to pass exactly as it reads. Famine and pestilence claimed the lives of many that lived in Jerusalem and the surrounding area, and those that gave a fight were taken by the sword. However in the futuristic sense, looking forward to the time when the king of Babylon of Revelation comes, after he as been alowed to do his deception and evil deeds, he will be placed in the abyss, in the pit and held until the end of the Millennium age, when he shall be released for a short season, and following that, sent into the fire.

If we were to look at the two baskets of figs today, which are those that claim to be of Judah we could not tell the difference between the good and the bad, or evil. That is why we must take care of the religious practices we accept today.

The famine that will come in our generation is not like the famine that claimed many lives at the fall of Jerusalem in Jeremiah's day. Amos warns us in Amos 8:11 "Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord:"

It's not about hate,it's about that which is written.........

 

[warhorse]

I asked my pastor if he considered the present Israel to be the one of prophesy in the Bible where the Jews return to the land God gave them hundreds of years ago. He said no and he thjought Israel came out of sympathy for the holocost. I personally do believe that Israel is the one prophesied in the Bible. Anyone else have an opinion?
:

They are the Jews that return from the north country, and the lands were God had driven them.

 

[Stormcrow]

Jeremiah 24:6 "For I will set mine eyes upon them for good, and I will bring them again to this land: and I will build them, and not pull them down; and I will plant them, and not pluck them up."

When this has taken place, and both fig baskets have returned to Jerusalem, as well as the events listed in Matthew 24, and Mark 13. These are the events which are the seven seals of Revelation and the seven trumpets that sound their taking place, God is saying that then He will establish them forever. Friend, this has to do with the end times, and our generation is the generation that will live to see it all come to pass.

You do know that Jeremiah was prophesying about those who would be taken captive by the Babylonians in 586 BC, right?

And so you should know that the return prophesied here is for those taken captive by Babylon, right???

Not everything in the Bible - especially the OT - revolves around you, me, us or now.

Dispensationalism is a disease. Truth is the cure.

 

[n2thelight]

You do know that Jeremiah was prophesying about those who would be taken captive by the Babylonians in 586 BC, right?

And so you should know that the return prophesied here is for those taken captive by Babylon, right???

Not everything in the Bible - especially the OT - revolves around you, me, us or now.

Dispensationalism is a disease. Truth is the cure.

I beg to differ...

Simply stated, all the events and various stories in the Bible are examples of what is to come. These particular events and stories did in fact happen, but through God's perfect plan and intervention; these events and stories will replicate themselves in a similar manner, were-by we can understand one thing that is to come in the future, by our understanding of another thing already past. This is one of the keys to understanding prophecy.

Many Christians assume that the Old Testament was superceded by the New Testament and that it doesn't apply anymore. This is not the case, in fact the New Testament fulfills the Old Testament just as Christ fulfilled the Old Testament. Example below.

1 Cor 10:11
11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples*1: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.*2 (KJV)
Explanations from above verse: *1 ensamples = examples, were-by we can understand the present and future by understanding the past. *2 for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come = That's us friend, we are that final generation. The final generation is referred to in Biblical prophecy as "the generation of the fig tree," and it began on or about May 14,1948 when Israel once again became a nation.
​

 

[Hitch]

I beg to differ...

Simply stated, all the events and various stories in the Bible are examples of what is to come. These particular events and stories did in fact happen, but through God's perfect plan and intervention; these events and stories will replicate themselves in a similar manner, were-by we can understand one thing that is to come in the future, by our understanding of another thing already past. This is one of the keys to understanding prophecy.

Many Christians assume that the Old Testament was superceded by the New Testament and that it doesn't apply anymore. This is not the case, in fact the New Testament fulfills the Old Testament just as Christ fulfilled the Old Testament. Example below.

1 Cor 10:11
11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples*1: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.*2 (KJV)
Explanations from above verse: *1 ensamples = examples, were-by we can understand the present and future by understanding the past. *2 for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come = That's us friend, we are that final generation. The final generation is referred to in Biblical prophecy as "the generation of the fig tree," and it began on or about May 14,1948 when Israel once again became a nation.
​

Time has run out on what you term the final generation . First in the 60s later in the 80s again in ''08.

But then reality and eschatology seldom meet.

But you have a point wrt history repeating. When your own preferred time line stretches too far you will experience an epiphany of sorts and move the starting date as necessary, probably to 1967, just like Hal and Tim.

Did you know Tim started much sooner than you? Originally his final generation ,'Key Generation', as he called it was based on the timing of The Balfour Declaration of 1917. Worked petty well:help