Denying the Power!

[whirlwind]

11 Timothy 2:24-26 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; IF God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him (Satan) at His (God's) will.

3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

• It is God's will that some are "taken captive?" Why? Is it because they are those that....

3:5-7 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

• "Denying the power thereof." What power is it that is denied?

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

i believe the power that is denied is the power of the Holy Spirit in INSIDE a person to change them into the image of Christ and to fulfill the sacrifice of Christ IN a person.- Christ did many things with His sacrifice which become applied to us by FAITH but become manifest in us as we walk in faith by the POWER of the HOLY SPIRIT in us to bring it to pass NOW in this life. and this people deny

they want to believe we have to remain sinners-instead of the Power of the Spirit in us and the work of Christ on the cross to set us free from the bondage sin had over us in the flesh.

they want to remain sick- instead of the power of the Spirit in us to manifest healing or deliverance and the work of the cross that took stripes and bore our sicknesses.

they want to hear soft tickly words- instead of the Power of the SPirit to convict us and bring us to repentance or chasten us unto death is needed.

they want to remain divided as a body of christ in denominations and other things- instead of the power of the Spirit and the work of Christ to make us one and unify us into one accord in the body of Christ.

and on and on and on

 

[RichardBurger]

It has been my experience that when people say the God changes them they mean that God changes their sinful flesh and makes it better. I do not believe this to be true. Flesh will always remain sinful (Romans 7). But those that have been born of the Spirit have two natures, one of sinful flesh and one that is born of God and does not sin. Not because they do not sin in the flesh but the nature that has been born of God cannot sin because it has been born of God. The children of God live in the Spirit and discount the deeds done in the body of flesh. They have no confidence in their flesh. After all, if God can call those that are not righteous, righteous, why can't we call ourselves righteous.

Richard

 

[Adullam]

"Give the people what they want." This is the motto of all entertainers going back to the days of the Coliseum in Rome.

What people want from Christianity is a religion of salvation. A free gift of eternal security and bliss. Give the people what they want. This has worked to grow Christianity into the biggest religion in the world today. So much for the Way being narow. Could Jesus have been wrong about our willingness to lay down our lives...or I should say...accept a free gift of eternal security?

 

[follower of Christ]

Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

The irony here is almost too much to bear...

• "Denying the power thereof." What power is it that is denied? [/b]

The form of godliness but denying the power is what I like to call 'make-believers'.
The look like a duck and waddle like a duck, but deep down inside they aint no duck.
The take on the form of a believer, but they arent really believers.
They strive to learn and play teacher, but very clearly dont know the truth of salvation and Gods word.

 

[Sinthesis]

11 Timothy 2:24-26 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; IF God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him (Satan) at His (God's) will.

3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

• It is God's will that some are "taken captive?" Why? Is it because they are those that....

First, what Bible translation are you using that contains "at His (God's) will"?

3:5-7 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

• "Denying the power thereof." What power is it that is denied?

The power of God. Or are you looking for something more specific?

 

[mutzrein]

Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

The irony here is almost too much to bear...

• "Denying the power thereof." What power is it that is denied? [/b]

The form of godliness but denying the power is what I like to call 'make-believers'.
The look like a duck and waddle like a duck, but deep down inside they aint no duck.
The take on the form of a believer, but they arent really believers.
They strive to learn and play teacher, but very clearly dont know the truth of salvation and Gods word.

:yes As Jesus said of these look-alikes: "You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life."

 

[whirlwind]

11 Timothy 2:24-26 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; IF God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him (Satan) at His (God's) will.

3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

• It is God's will that some are "taken captive?" Why? Is it because they are those that....

First, what Bible translation are you using that contains "at His (God's) will"?

I'm sorry. I thought you would have recognized that as it was written in italics and surrounded by parenthesis you would understand that it was not part of the Scripture. I'll do more to point that out in the future.

3:5-7 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

• "Denying the power thereof." What power is it that is denied?

The power of God. Or are you looking for something more specific?

Yes...I'm looking for something more specific. If one has a "form of godliness" how could they be seen to deny God's power. That wouldn't be much of a form. What is the power they deny?

 

[Sinthesis]

11 Timothy 2:24-26 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; IF God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him (Satan) at His (God's) will.

3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

• It is God's will that some are "taken captive?" Why? Is it because they are those that....

First, what Bible translation are you using that contains "at His (God's) will"?

I'm sorry. I thought you would have recognized that as it was written in italics and surrounded by parenthesis you would understand that it was not part of the Scripture. I'll do more to point that out in the future.

You capitalized "His" which is what led you to insert "(God's)". If you cross reference various different translations then you will see this was an error on your part and will resolve this particular confusion.

3:5-7 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

• "Denying the power thereof." What power is it that is denied?

The power of God. Or are you looking for something more specific?

Yes...I'm looking for something more specific. If one has a "form of godliness" how could they be seen to deny God's power. That wouldn't be much of a form. What is the power they deny?

'Form' means in appearance, but not genuine. Think about 'Benny Hinn'.

Specifically, this verse is a warning against the numerous false messiahs which would captivate apostate Israel with the fantasy of throwing off the Roman Empire. These false messiahs tried to assume Jesus' place because they did not believe in God's power to resurrect His Son.

In other word's; "We will save God's chosen people because since Jesus is dead, he couldn't possibly have been the messiah."

 

[whirlwind]

[
First, what Bible translation are you using that contains "at His (God's) will"?

I'm sorry. I thought you would have recognized that as it was written in italics and surrounded by parenthesis you would understand that it was not part of the Scripture. I'll do more to point that out in the future.

You capitalized "His" which is what led you to insert "(God's)". If you cross reference various different translations then you will see this was an error on your part and will resolve this particular confusion.

"And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at His will." It is God's will that allows the devil to take some captive. I don't understand your thoughts in this.

'Form' means in appearance, but not genuine. Think about 'Benny Hinn'.

Specifically, this verse is a warning against the numerous false messiahs which would captivate apostate Israel with the fantasy of throwing off the Roman Empire. These false messiahs tried to assume Jesus' place because they did not believe in God's power to resurrect His Son.

In other word's; "We will save God's chosen people because since Jesus is dead, he couldn't possibly have been the messiah."

Thank you Sinthesis. I agree with what you have written but it appears to me that more is said. It isn't the "form" I question but rather "what is the power they deny?"

 

[Sinthesis]

You capitalized "His" which is what led you to insert "(God's)". If you cross reference various different translations then you will see this was an error on your part and will resolve this particular confusion.

"And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at His will." It is God's will that allows the devil to take some captive. I don't understand your thoughts in this.

It is not just my thoughts on this. Sure, ultimately everything is God's will, but that particular point is not being communicated here. You're confused because you have mistakenly capitalized "his". This is an error on your part which has resulted in your misunderstanding the verse.

---Available Translations and Versions for 2 Timothy 2:26---

KJV - And {that} they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

NKJV - and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.

NLT - Then they will come to their senses and escape from the Devil's trap. For they have been held captive by him to do whatever he wants.

NIV - and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.

ESV - and they may escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.

RVR - y escapen del lazo del diablo, en que están cautivos a voluntad de él.

NASB - and they may come to their senses {and escape} from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.

RSV - and they may escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.

ASV - and they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him unto his will.

YNG - and they may awake out of the devil's snare, having been caught by him at his will.

DBY - and that they may awake up out of the snare of the devil, {who are} taken by him, for *his* will.

WEB - And {that} they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

HNV - and they may recover themselves out of the devil's snare, having been taken captive by him to his will.

VUL - et resipiscant a diaboli laqueis a quo capti tenentur ad ipsius voluntatem

TR - καὶ ἀνανήÈÉÃιν á¼Âκ Äῆ Äοῦ διαβÌλοÅ Àαγίδο á¼ÂζÉγÃÂημένοι ὑÀ᾽ αá½ÂÄοῦ εἰ Äὸ á¼ÂκείνοÃ… θέλημα

mGNT - καὶ ἀνανήÈÉÃιν á¼Âκ Äῆ Äοῦ διαβÌλοÅ Àαγίδο á¼ÂζÉγÃÂημένοι ὑÃۉ۪ αá½ÂÄοῦ εἰ Äὸ á¼ÂκείνοÃ… θέλημα

'Form' means in appearance, but not genuine. Think about 'Benny Hinn'.

Specifically, this verse is a warning against the numerous false messiahs which would captivate apostate Israel with the fantasy of throwing off the Roman Empire. These false messiahs tried to assume Jesus' place because they did not believe in God's power to resurrect His Son.

In other word's; "We will save God's chosen people because since Jesus is dead, he couldn't possibly have been the messiah."

Thank you Sinthesis. I agree with what you have written but it appears to me that more is said. It isn't the "form" I question but rather "what is the power they deny?"

The power of God they deny is Jesus' victory over death. No seemingly religious man would ever proclaim himself the Messiah if he truly believed that Jesus is alive and seated at the right hand of God.

 

[whirlwind]

You capitalized "His" which is what led you to insert "(God's)". If you cross reference various different translations then you will see this was an error on your part and will resolve this particular confusion.

"And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at His will." It is God's will that allows the devil to take some captive. I don't understand your thoughts in this.

It is not just my thoughts on this. Sure, ultimately everything is God's will, but that particular point is not being communicated here. You're confused because you have mistakenly capitalized "his". This is an error on your part which has resulted in your misunderstanding the verse.

---Available Translations and Versions for 2 Timothy 2:26---

KJV - And {that} they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

NKJV - and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.

NLT - Then they will come to their senses and escape from the Devil's trap. For they have been held captive by him to do whatever he wants.

NIV - and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.

ESV - and they may escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.

RVR - y escapen del lazo del diablo, en que están cautivos a voluntad de él.

NASB - and they may come to their senses {and escape} from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.

RSV - and they may escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.

ASV - and they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him unto his will.

YNG - and they may awake out of the devil's snare, having been caught by him at his will.

DBY - and that they may awake up out of the snare of the devil, {who are} taken by him, for *his* will.

WEB - And {that} they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

HNV - and they may recover themselves out of the devil's snare, having been taken captive by him to his will.

VUL - et resipiscant a diaboli laqueis a quo capti tenentur ad ipsius voluntatem

TR - καὶ ἀνανήÈÉÃιν á¼Âκ Äῆ Äοῦ διαβÌλοÅ Àαγίδο á¼ÂζÉγÃÂημένοι ὑÀ᾽ αá½ÂÄοῦ εἰ Äὸ á¼ÂκείνοÃ… θέλημα

mGNT - καὶ ἀνανήÈÉÃιν á¼Âκ Äῆ Äοῦ διαβÌλοÅ Àαγίδο á¼ÂζÉγÃÂημένοι ὑÃۉ۪ αá½ÂÄοῦ εἰ Äὸ á¼ÂκείνοÃ… θέλημα

You could be right Sinthesis. I'm going by a comment by Bullinger in which he wrote...

• The pronouns "him" and "his" have not the same reference. The first refers to the servant, the second to God, and the meaning of the passage is, the devil stirs up those he has ensnared to oppose, for God should give them repentance, and lest, having been taken captive by God's servant, they should escape the snare, to do the will of God."

Either could be correct???

'Form' means in appearance, but not genuine. Think about 'Benny Hinn'.

Specifically, this verse is a warning against the numerous false messiahs which would captivate apostate Israel with the fantasy of throwing off the Roman Empire. These false messiahs tried to assume Jesus' place because they did not believe in God's power to resurrect His Son.

In other word's; "We will save God's chosen people because since Jesus is dead, he couldn't possibly have been the messiah."

Thank you Sinthesis. I agree with what you have written but it appears to me that more is said. It isn't the "form" I question but rather "what is the power they deny?"

The power of God they deny is Jesus' victory over death. No seemingly religious man would ever proclaim himself the Messiah if he truly believed that Jesus is alive and seated at the right hand of God.

[/quote]


I just saw something in your previous post I overlooked before. I rescind my comment of "I agree" I don't believe the verse was about the time of the Roman Empire at all.

In regard to the "power of God" that is denied.....

• 11 Timothy 3:5-7 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

I don't see that as saying anyone proclaims themselves to BE the Messiah but, as they have a "form of godliness," they would be teachers, preachers, etc....pretending to be of the Messiah. But they "deny the power." This, to me, has to be what they teach, or fail to teach, that is the denied power. Part of it could certainly be, "The power of God they deny is Jesus' victory over death", for by falsely teaching (if they are believed), could keep one from that being part of His victory.

I believe the power denied is....Jesus is in us and we in Him. That is a very powerful realization.


I'm editing in....after reading another thread see an aspect of "denying His power" is when we, as Christians, believe that only God's elect are saved. That, to me, denies His power of salvation!

 

[samuel]

A form of Godliness; but denying the Power thereof ?.

Simply this is a person that has a religious presence, but not a Spiritual one.
There is like the Parasee's a form of righteousness, but it has no life changing experience. These persons believe in God, and Christ, but from a literal head knowledge. They have no Spirit, thus no life changing power.
They are worldly, materialistic, misinterpret the meaning of Romans 7, have never read on to chapter 8, and are ever learning but never able to come the knowledge of the truth. Unfortunately! this covers about 95%, of those who call themselves Christian today.

 

[Adullam]

A form of Godliness; but denying the Power thereof ?.

Simply this is a person that has a religious presence, but not a Spiritual one.
There is like the Parasee's a form of righteousness, but it has no life changing experience. These persons believe in God, and Christ, but from a literal head knowledge. They have no Spirit, thus no life changing power.
They are worldly, materialistic, misinterpret the meaning of Romans 7, have never read on to chapter 8, and are ever learning but never able to come the knowledge of the truth. Unfortunately! this covers about 95%, of those who call themselves Christian today.

A good if unfortunate assessment!