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Do you believe a people are saved before they hear and believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ?

Are people saved before the hear and believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ?

  • Total voters
    3
JLB

JLB

Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life
Supporter
Some people are of the opinion that a born again Christian is saved before they hear and believe the Gospel message of salvation.


What do you believe.

Here is what Jesus said -


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16

again


Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12


Paul says it this way -


that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Romans 10:9



The idea that people are saved without hearing and believing the Gospel is not found in scripture.



What do you believe?





JLB
 
Because of mans natural depravity to spiritual things and light, yes before he can believe the spiritual light of the Gospel he must be saved, delivered from the power of darkness. By nature we men love darkness rather than light Jn 3:19

And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Its that way unless or until we are delivered from the power of darkness Col 1 13


Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

When one is by the New birth translated into the Kingdom of Gods dear Son, we can then believe the Gospel of His Son.

That kingdom is entered into by being born again Jn 3:3-5

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
 
In the Zone.
Nothing natural about depravity. Depravity was offered to Eve / Adam in the garden.

John the Baptist came before Jesus with a message of learning of the depravity of man. Being aware of depravity only leaves a person crying lout for a solution. The solution is Jesus (Good News / Gospel).

Belief in the solution to Repentance? Work of Jesus. One name under heaven that saves.

Mississippi redneck
eddif
 
brightfame52 said:
eddif



Offered ? Where you read that from ?
Click to expand...
Genesis 3:4 kjv
4. And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5. For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

And more verses

Eve was offered depraved thoughts that were not from God. If depraved will not work for you use another word.

Mississippi redneck
eddif
 
eddif said:
Genesis 3:4 kjv
4. And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5. For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

And more verses

Eve was offered depraved thoughts that were not from God. If depraved will not work for you use another word.

Mississippi redneck
eddif
Click to expand...
Okay but i dont see nothing about an offer in that narrative.
 
JLB said:
Some people are of the opinion that a born again Christian is saved before they hear and believe the Gospel message of salvation.


What do you believe.

Here is what Jesus said -


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16

again


Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12


Paul says it this way -


that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Romans 10:9



The idea that people are saved without hearing and believing the Gospel is not found in scripture.



What do you believe?





JLB
Click to expand...
I believe you’re right.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JLB
JLB said:
...
Click to expand...

[Do you believe a people are saved before they hear and believe the gospel of Jesus Christ?]

I shall focus on this Q, first changing it from [a people] to [people].

Then my A depends on the meaning of the Q.

If it means, life with God postmortem, then I’d say Yes. That I believe is the biblical storyline.

If it means, life with Christ premortem, I’d say No. That I believe is the biblical storyline.

I believe that many were saved unto Sinai life, but not all under Sinai were saved beyond death, and if the Christian gospel means the resurrection of messiah, I don’t believe that Sinai preincarnation made that a core belief.

I think the survey is too black & white, as in Is it better to be awake or to sleep?
 
Vinny37 said:
[Do you believe a people are saved before they hear and believe the gospel of Jesus Christ?]

I shall focus on this Q, first changing it from [a people] to [people].

Then my A depends on the meaning of the Q.

If it means, life with God postmortem, then I’d say Yes. That I believe is the biblical storyline.

If it means, life with Christ premortem, I’d say No. That I believe is the biblical storyline.

I believe that many were saved unto Sinai life, but not all under Sinai were saved beyond death, and if the Christian gospel means the resurrection of messiah, I don’t believe that Sinai preincarnation made that a core belief.

I think the survey is too black & white, as in Is it better to be awake or to sleep?
Click to expand...


The Gospel of Jesus Christ carries a command.

That command is repent. Repent means to turn to God (in submission to Jesus Christ as LORD).

That command requires obedience. The way we obey the Gospel is to confess Jesus Christ as LORD.

Obeying the Gospel is required for salvation. Obeying the Gospel is an eternal commitment to submit to, and obey Jesus Christ as LORD.



But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “LORD, who has believed our report?” So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:16-17

... in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Thessalonians 1:8




JLB
 
JLB

The Gospel of Jesus Christ carries a command.

That command is repent. Repent means to turn to God (in submission to Jesus Christ as LORD).

That command requires obedience. The way we obey the Gospel is to confess Jesus Christ as LORD.
Click to expand...

And the command is to the regenerated elect, which gives everlasting life Jn 12 50

And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

Jesus gives repentance and obedience to them He is commissioned to give everlasting life to

Jn 17:2

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Acts 5:31
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

See Jesus is under debt to the Fathers will to give them repentance unto eternal life.
 
brightfame52 said:
And the command is to the regenerated elect, which gives everlasting life Jn 12 50
Click to expand...

And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak.” John 12:50


There is no where in this scripture or any other scripture that says we are saved before we ever hear and believe the Gospel.



And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard?
Romans 10:14
 
brightfame52 said:
I like good. see it
Click to expand...
I don’t do eyes of understanding surgery. I can pray about the eyes of your understanding being enlightened.

God offered prolonged life if man ate of tree of life, but death if they ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Satan offered no death and the opportunity to be like God.

They were kicked out of Eden and eventually died physically. I am not perfect in my understanding yet. I await the last trump.

Mississippi redneck
eddif
 
Last edited:
eddif said:
I don’t do eyes of understanding surgery. I can pray about the eyes of your understanding being enlightened.

God offered prolonged life if man ate of tree of life, but death if they ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Satan offered no death and the opportunity to be like God.

They were kicked out of Eden and eventually died physically. I am not perfect in my understanding yet. I await the last trump.

Mississippi redneck
eddif
Click to expand...
If thats what you believe so be it, I dont see it, you see all these offerings
 
JLB said:
The Gospel of Jesus Christ carries a command.

That command is repent. Repent means to turn to God (in submission to Jesus Christ as LORD).

That command requires obedience. The way we obey the Gospel is to confess Jesus Christ as LORD.

Obeying the Gospel is required for salvation. Obeying the Gospel is an eternal commitment to submit to, and obey Jesus Christ as LORD.

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “LORD, who has believed our report?” So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:16-17

... in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Thessalonians 1:8

JLB
Click to expand...

Tyndale, unlike Wycliffe, helped us avoid Sabellianism by his full capitalisation as [the LORD] in the OT, so made a definite gain. Coverdale hadn’t a clue and both God’s name & lordship title got the same full caps, obliterating the distinction. For the NT OT quotations, the NKJV has some justification re. full caps (eg Rm.10:16): I’m a floating voter.

But there is a connect and disconnect between Yahweh & Yeshua which is important not to obliterate. If we go Tyndale’s way, then [submission to Jesus Christ as LORD] means [as Yahweh]. I suspect that few of the early Christians made that nuanced link (centuries of creed-making support my suspicion), the humbler ὁ κυριον (the lord) was I think their starter point, and κυριε in Rm.10:16 meant Yahweh not Yeshua. Now that aside, such commands as you raised are in line with my [life with Christ premortem] reply. As said, the wordgroup salvation/saved is wide and undefined in your poll. For Christian salvation (which did not predate Christ) we need the message of Christ (ῥηματος χριστου: Rm.10:17). Hence my No.

2 Ths.1:8 (in context, eg v6) suggests to me those who were attacking Christians not simply because the attackers were not obeying the gospel (Saul had not obeyed the gospel of God’s son), but because at core they actively did not know God (Saul had known God)—core wilful blindness. I deem that at core humanity divides vis-à-vis knowing God, between heart knowledge or heart blindness. Cornelius had known God before he obeyed the gospel of God’s son, and I agree with Calvin that had Cornelius died before hearing the evangel, he would have everlasting life postmortem. In this situational letter, Paul’s line in 2 Ths.1:8 contrasts two extremes, ignoring for his point the middle.

On 2 Ths.1:8 I accept that Paul bespoke (contra Universalism) a postmortem everlasting separation between two groups, who neither know God nor obey his son: ie the core value anti-God extremists. Vis-à-vis everlasting life with God (possible for Orpah and Ruth if Naomi got it right), people can be saved before they hear and believe the gospel of Jesus Christ. Hence my Yes.

John Wesley made a similar distinction. He assumed that those who never heard the gospel might well have life with God postmortem (his Yes to you poll), by focused on his mission to get folk saved into Christ’s kingdom in the there and then (his No to your poll).
 
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