[_ Old Earth _] DRAGONFLIES BURN UP EVOLUTION!

[Asyncritus]

DRAGONFLIES DEMOLISH EVOLUTION

As one contributor has seen fit to publish a long and useless list of dragonfly species, I though it might help readers to see just how foolish the idea that dragonflies evolved from anything else really is.

SIKORSKY

Sikorsky apparently used the dragonfly in computer simulations for the design of their helicopters.

Like helicopter blades, the wings of the dragonfly do not fold up – and this characteristic made dragonflies an immediate candidate for modelling their helicopters. One of them is actually called the Sikorsky Dragonfly, and is used as a medevac carrier. (Medevac means medical evacuation).

Is it not stupid, therefore, to suppose that a dragonfly somehow ‘evolved’ by chance ‘mutations and natural selection’, when the most intelligent modern aeronautical engineers are busy copying its design?

Does that fact not scream ‘I was Created by the super-intelligent Creator of All Things?’

 

[Asyncritus]

Re: DAGONFLIES BURN UP EVOLUTION!

The Fossil Record of Dragonflies

Shows no ancestors (only to be expected), and worse, from an evolutionary point of view, shows that the most ancient dragonflies are nearly indistinguishable from modern ones: showing that no evolution worthy of the name has taken place.


I can't get the pictures to upload, so do a google search on the earliest fossil dragonflies, and you'll see just how little change there has really been.

 

[Asyncritus]

Re: DAGONFLIES BURN UP EVOLUTION!

The Fossil Record of Dragonflies
Shows no ancestors (only to be expected), and worse, from an evolutionary point of view, shows that the most ancient dragonflies are nearly indistinguishable from modern ones: showing that no evolution worthy of the name has taken place.


This alone finishes the idea of evolution. If none has taken place over the vast amount of time (about 310 million years) dragonflies have been on earth, then what reason do we have to suppose that any evolution has ever taken place?


Remember: The Insects are probably the largest group of animals on the planet. If there’s no evidence of their evolution, then what about the fancied rest of the animals and plants?


There is, however, a lot more good reason to spit out the theory.

 

[Asyncritus]

Re: DAGONFLIES BURN UP EVOLUTION!

THE INSTINCT QUESTION -AGAIN!

1 The instincts required to fly with 2 pairs of wings cannot have ‘evolved’ from any creatures with one pair. There are no modifications possible to the instinct package powering two winged flight that would work on four winged flight, which is far more advanced.

The instincts therefore had to be implanted in toto, at one go in other words. This is not the way step by little step evolution works, and this requirement for a perfectly formed instinct completely finishes any idea of evolution.

Remember that helicopters are a relatively recent invention -1939 – though the idea was tried out earlier. It took us many thousands of years to get this far – but the dragonflies beat us to it by a long, long time.
Were they sufficiently intelligent to figure all that out by themselves, on wonders? Yes-s-s-s, one wonders.

2 The musculature which powers the flight of a 4-winged insect is entirely different to that of a 2-winged one.

3 The nervous system which powers that flight is also entirely different. Synchronisation of the 4-wing movement, for instance, is not required in 2-winged flight.

4 If the 4-winged insect evolved from a 2-winged insect, then logically, there ought to be a 3-winged insect somewhere in the ancestry – but of course, there isn’t one.

What a surprise!

 

[Asyncritus]

Re: DAGONFLIES BURN UP EVOLUTION!

2 THE LIFE CYCLE OF THE DRAGONFLY

The most startling feature of the insect is, to me, its life cycle.

The mating procedure complex as it is, does not match the rest of the insect’s life cycle for amazing-ness.

Here are photos of it taking place.

Source: http://www.dragonfly-site.com/dragonfly-life-cycle.html

 

[Asyncritus]

Re: DAGONFLIES BURN UP EVOLUTION!

The eggs are laid in water.



They then hatch out into ‘nymphs’ which bear no resemblance to the adult form. The nymphs live in the water for up to 4 years.



They are able to catch small fish and eat them with their considerable jaw power.




http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&suge...gs_id=2hs&xhr=t&q=dragonfly+nymph+eating+fish



http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&suge...gs_id=2hs&xhr=t&q=dragonfly+nymph+eating+fishhttp://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&suge...gs_id=2hs&xhr=t&q=dragonfly+nymph+eating+fish
http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&suge...gs_id=2hs&xhr=t&q=dragonfly+nymph+eating+fish

 

[Asyncritus]

Re: DAGONFLIES BURN UP EVOLUTION!

All of this takes place UNDERWATER. The nymph breathes with a set of complicated GILLS yet!

So an underwater-living creature, breathing with gills, and catching fish, somehow evolved into an air-breathing, flying creature with the most advanced wings in the insect world!

Can you see just how hopeless evolution is, in face of these facts?

Now for the miracle.

 

[Asyncritus]

Re: DAGONFLIES BURN UP EVOLUTION!

The nymph moults up to a dozen times: that means, it loses its outer skeleton, and grows a new one, becoming larger each time, until the final one is reached.

This one climbs out of the water, attaches itself to a plant, and then the case splits open, and the adult dragonfly emerges.

Go here to see wonderful photos of the whole process with comments.

http://citizenscientistsleague.com/2011/12/15/dragonfly-life-cycle-and-metamorphosis/

 

[Asyncritus]

Re: DAGONFLIES BURN UP EVOLUTION!

Many predators eat the emerging dragonflies, but the ones that survive dry out and mature into one of nature’s most marvellous creatures, as we’ve been describing.

At every step of the way, there is an instinct package governing the creature’s behaviour, which cannot have been learned.

How to breathe underwater with gills,

how to see underwater,

how to fish,

how to grow,

how to moult,

how to emerge from the water,

how to breathe with a tracheal system in the air which it doesn’t know exists,

how to see in air with the most magnificent set of eyes in nature

– all of these instincts cannot have evolved, because with any imperfect system at any of those points above, extinction would have occurred.

But the dragonflies are still here – magnificent testimonies to our Creator’s skill.

 

[lordkalvan]

Move along there, folks, move along; nothing to see here. Just the same ol' same ol': a farrago of misunderstanding, misrepresentation and personal incredulity that has been addressed and refuted previously elsewhere, only to be ignored or handwaved away.

 

[Barbarian]

SIKORSKY
Sikorsky apparently used the dragonfly in computer simulations for the design of their helicopters.

That would be exceedingly odd, since Sikorsky produced the first helicopter before computer simulations existed. (1942)

Like helicopter blades, the wings of the dragonfly do not fold up

The helicopter blades produce lift by moving forward against the air, and employing the Bernoulli principle to create lift by varying the speed of air over the top and bottom sections of the rotor blade. Dragonfly wings produce lift by a figure-8 motion that imparts a downward velocity to air that in turn imparts an upward velocity to the dragonfly. Doesn't sound very similar to me.

and this characteristic made dragonflies an immediate candidate for modelling their helicopters. One of them is actually called the Sikorsky Dragonfly, and is used as a medevac carrier. (Medevac means medical evacuation).

And therefor, the A-10 warthog was modeled on the motion of a warthog. Right.

Is it not stupid, therefore, to suppose that a dragonfly somehow ‘evolved’ by chance ‘mutations and natural selection’, when the most intelligent modern aeronautical engineers are busy copying its design?

Turns out, no. In fact, aeronautical engineers are using evolutionary processes to solve problems that are too complex for design. Want to learn how?

Does that fact not scream ‘I was Created by the super-intelligent Creator of All Things?’

Maybe. But your problem is, you don't approve of the way He did it.

 

[Barbarian]

The Fossil Record of Dragonflies
Shows no ancestors (only to be expected), and worse, from an evolutionary point of view, shows that the most ancient dragonflies are nearly indistinguishable from modern ones: showing that no evolution worthy of the name has taken place.

Meganisoptera is an extinct order of very large to gigantic insects, occasionally called griffinflies. The order was formerly named Protodonata, the "proto-Odonata", for their similar appearance and supposed relation to dragonflies (Odonata)... Although sometimes included under the dragonflies, the Protodonata lack certain distinctive wing features that characterise the Odonata. Grimaldi and Engel, pointing out that the colloquial term "giant dragonfly" is therefore misleading, suggest "griffinfly" instead.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meganisoptera

And then there were earlier versions like the herbivorous Paleodictoptera:

More later. (Async seems to think the "Gish Gallop" might win the day for him by flooding the board with weird misconceptions. But I'll have time to pick them apart at leisure.

If anyone wants me to address a particular claim out of sequence, let me know what it is, and I'll be glad to discuss it.

 

[Barbarian]

Well, maybe just one more...

The instincts required to fly with 2 pairs of wings cannot have ‘evolved’ from any creatures with one pair. There are no modifications possible to the instinct package powering two winged flight that would work on four winged flight, which is far more advanced.

Four is the primitive condition. The most primitive flying insects had four wings. Most still do. Three orders of insects have two wings, the Diptera (flies and their like), the Strepsiptera (small parasitic insects) and Coeloptera (beetles). Flies and Strepsipterans still have the musculature and joints for both sets of wings, but one set of wings are now vestigial stumps called haltares, which are used to stabilize flight. Still use the original wing motions, though. The front set of wings in beetles have been converted to hard covers, the elytra. They are still operated by the wing flight muscles, too.

Remember that helicopters are a relatively recent invention -1939 – though the idea was tried out earlier. It took us many thousands of years to get this far – but the dragonflies beat us to it by a long, long time.

Dragonflies don't work like helicopters. See my post above. Surprise.

2 The musculature which powers the flight of a 4-winged insect is entirely different to that of a 2-winged one.

See above. Surprise, again.

3 The nervous system which powers that flight is also entirely different. Synchronisation of the 4-wing movement, for instance, is not required in 2-winged flight.

And one more surprise. Turns out, they are.

4 If the 4-winged insect evolved from a 2-winged insect, then logically

See above. You have it backwards, again.

there ought to be a 3-winged insect somewhere in the ancestry – but of course, there isn’t one.

And couldn't be. The homobox genes that account for these features are bilateral in expression. But as you learned earlier, there was at least one six-winged version with two extra small wings in addition to the four functional ones. This is normal in arthropods. In evolution, the usual process is called "tagmosis", the reduction in, and specialization of, body segments.

What a surprise!

Indeed. But this isn't...