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[_ Old Earth _] Editor Explains Reasons for 'Intelligent Design' Article

Dave...

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Editor Explains Reasons for 'Intelligent Design' Article

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01680.html

By Michael Powell
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, August 19, 2005; Page A19

Evolutionary biologist Richard Sternberg made a fateful decision a year ago.

As editor of the hitherto obscure Proceedings of the Biological Society of Washington, Sternberg decided to publish a paper making the case for "intelligent design," a controversial theory that holds that the machinery of life is so complex as to require the hand -- subtle or not -- of an intelligent creator.

Within hours of publication, senior scientists at the Smithsonian Institution -- which has helped fund and run the journal -- lashed out at Sternberg as a shoddy scientist and a closet Bible thumper.

"They were saying I accepted money under the table, that I was a crypto-priest, that I was a sleeper cell operative for the creationists," said Steinberg, 42 , who is a Smithsonian research associate. "I was basically run out of there."

An independent agency has come to the same conclusion, accusing top scientists at the Smithsonian's National Museum of Natural History of retaliating against Sternberg by investigating his religion and smearing him as a "creationist."

The U.S. Office of Special Counsel, which was established to protect federal employees from reprisals, examined e-mail traffic from these scientists and noted that "retaliation came in many forms . . . misinformation was disseminated through the Smithsonian Institution and to outside sources. The allegations against you were later determined to be false."

"The rumor mill became so infected," James McVay, the principal legal adviser in the Office of Special Counsel, wrote to Sternberg, "that one of your colleagues had to circulate [your résumé] simply to dispel the rumor that you were not a scientist."

The Washington Post and two other media outlets obtained a copy of the still-private report.

McVay, who is a political appointee of the Bush administration, acknowledged in the report that a fuller response from the Smithsonian might have tempered his conclusions. As Sternberg is not a Smithsonian employee -- the National Institutes of Health pays his salary -- the special counsel lacks the power to impose a legal remedy.

A spokeswoman for the Smithsonian Institution declined comment, noting that it has not received McVay's report.

"We do stand by evolution -- we are a scientific organization," said Linda St. Thomas, the spokeswoman. An official privately suggested that McVay might want to embarrass the institution.

It is hard to overstate the passions fired by the debate over intelligent design. President Bush recently said that schoolchildren should learn about the theory alongside Darwin's theory of evolution -- a view that goes beyond even the stance of intelligent design advocates. Dozens of state school boards have attempted to mandate the teaching of anti-Darwinian theories.

A small band of scientists argue for intelligent design, saying evolutionary theory's path is littered with too many gaps and mysteries, and cannot account for the origin of life.

Most evolutionary biologists, not to mention much of the broader scientific community, dismiss intelligent design as a sophisticated version of creationism. To teach it in science classes, they say, would be to overturn hundreds of years of scientific progress. The National Museum of Natural History was drawn into this controversy in June, when protest forced it to withdraw from co-sponsorship of a documentary on intelligent design.

Sternberg's case has sent ripples far beyond the Beltway. The special counsel accused the National Center for Science Education, an Oakland, Calif.-based think tank that defends the teaching of evolution, of orchestrating attacks on Sternberg.

"The NCSE worked closely with" the Smithsonian "in outlining a strategy to have you investigated and discredited," McVay wrote to Sternberg.

NCSE officials accused McVay of playing out a political agenda. "I must say that Mr. McVay flatters us beyond our desserts -- the Smithsonian is a distinguished organization of highly competent scientists, and they're not marionettes," said Eugenie Scott, the group's executive director. "If this was a corporation, and an employee did something that really embarrassed the administration, really blew it, how long do you think that person would be employed?"

Risky Decision

Sternberg is an unlikely revolutionary. He holds two PhDs in evolutionary biology, his graduate work draws praise from his former professors, and in 2000 he gained a coveted research associate appointment at the Smithsonian Institution.

Not long after that, Smithsonian scientists asked Sternberg to become the unpaid editor of Proceedings of the Biological Society of Washington, a sleepy scientific journal affiliated with the Smithsonian. Three years later, Sternberg agreed to consider a paper by Stephen C. Meyer, a Cambridge University-educated philosopher of science who argues that evolutionary theory cannot account for the vast profusion of multicellular species and forms in what is known as the Cambrian "explosion," which occurred about 530 million years ago.

Scientists still puzzle at this great proliferation of life. But Meyer's paper went several long steps further, arguing that an intelligent agent -- God, according to many who espouse intelligent design -- was the best explanation for the rapid appearance of higher life-forms.

Sternberg harbored his own doubts about Darwinian theory. He also acknowledged that this journal had not published such papers in the past and that he wanted to stir the scientific pot.

"I am not convinced by intelligent design but they have brought a lot of difficult questions to the fore," Sternberg said. "Science only moves forward on controversy."

He mailed Meyer's article to three scientists for a peer review. It has been suggested that Sternberg fabricated the peer review or sought unqualified scientists, a claim McVay dismissed.

"They were critical of the paper and gave 50 things to consider," Sternberg said. "But they said that people are talking about this and we should air the views."

When the article appeared, the reaction was near instantaneous and furious. Within days, detailed scientific critiques of Meyer's article appeared on pro-evolution Web sites. "The origin of genetic information is thoroughly understood," said Nick Matzke of the NCSE. "If the arguments were coherent this paper would have been revolutionary-- but they were bogus."

A senior Smithsonian scientist wrote in an e-mail: "We are evolutionary biologists and I am sorry to see us made into the laughing stock of the world, even if this kind of rubbish sells well in backwoods USA."

An e-mail stated, falsely, that Sternberg had "training as an orthodox priest." Another labeled him a "Young Earth Creationist," meaning a person who believes God created the world in the past 10,000 years.

This latter accusation is a reference to Sternberg's service on the board of the Baraminology Study Group, a "young Earth" group. Sternberg insists he does not believe in creationism. "I was rather strong in my criticism of them," he said. "But I agreed to work as a friendly but critical outsider."

Scott, of the NCSE, insisted that Smithsonian scientists had no choice but to explore Sternberg's religious beliefs. "They don't care if you are religious, but they do care a lot if you are a creationist," Scott said. "Sternberg denies it, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it argues for zealotry."

Endgame

Sternberg has seen stress piled upon stress in the past year. His marriage has dissolved, and he no longer comes into the Smithsonian. When the biological society issued a statement disavowing Meyer's article, Sternberg was advised not to attend. "I was told that feelings were running so high, they could not guarantee me that they could keep order," Sternberg said.

A former professor of Sternberg's says the researcher has an intellectual penchant for going against the system. Sternberg does not deny it.

"I loathe careerism and the herd mentality," he said. "I really think that objective truth can be discovered and that popular opinion and consensus thinking does more to obscure than to reveal."
 
"Intelligent design, a controversial theory that holds that the machinery of life is so complex as to require the hand -- subtle or not -- of an intelligent creator."

I hope I am not hijacking the intent of this thread.

I am not sure what exactly what the proponents of ID are actually saying. Are the ID people saying that nature cannot be fully modelled by us - that there are phenomena which are beyond the explanatory power of our "mechanistic" models? For now, lets assume that they will answer in the affirmative. Even if our models are incomplete in this sense, the ID supporter needs to explain why the presence of "un-model-able" phenomena points to the presence of an intelligent designer and not merely to the possibility that our minds are not sophisticated enough to characterize all of nature. I am saying that mere incomprehensibility does not directly imply intelligent design- the ID supporter needs to more work.

In addition, in Christian circles there appears to be a funny kind of unexamined assumption that God's handiwork is such that humans will be simply incapable of characterizing it - that God's works will not be subject to descriptive modelling by humans. I see no reason to believe that this is true. The fact that we can mathematically characterize a phenomena like gravity does not mean that God is not "behind" the phenomena in some sense. To me this is another manifestation of the confusion that can arise in people's minds re the distinction between a case for mere incomprehensibility and a case for the presence of directive mind underlying nature.

Precisely what is it about our universe that makes ID supporters believe in the existence of a purposive mind behind our universe? I happen to believe in a kind of ID, but I strongly suspect my flavour of ID is not the one being widely promoted.

I have more to say but will stop for now to keep this post short and to see if there is any interest.
 
of course the scientific community is goign to run otu a creationist.

creationism is NOT science.
 
The Office of Special Counsel has, BTW, dismissed Sternberg's complaint. Although McVey, a very conservative republican, stepped in and handled the investigation, there was nothing of substance to the case. Even a Bush political appointee is constrained by the law and basic fairness.
 
Don't you guys find it odd that the "scientific (herd) community" is so afraid of being tested or testing other ideas that they will even go to the extremes of using baseless personal attacks? Surely the scientific community as a whole is above that kind of childish behavior?

They make very boastful claims to defend themselves and use that as a foundation of their argument in why they need not hear what anyone else has to say. I don't think it's too much to ask them to put up or shut up and step aside and let real scientists do their job.

Over and over in the news the evolutionists continue to use the same lines, boycott meetings, etc. The herd looks desperate. Sooner or later they will have to answer the critics. The more they run and hide behind the rhetoric, the more people are going to want the truth.

The reason that I posted this article was more because of the way science is so narrow minded/sighted. It's been that way from the beginning when the theory of evolution was first introduced. Even to other evolutionists. I think that the term "Careerism" is a perfect one to describe the majority of the modern scientific community.

Dave
 
sciecne revolves aroudn the ability to test things.

There is no possible way to test creationism, beacause it isnt possible.
 
Don't you guys find it odd that the "scientific (herd) community" is so afraid of being tested or testing other ideas that they will even go to the extremes of using baseless personal attacks?

Sternberg is hardly a good example of the scientific committee. His attacks on the Smithsonian haven't been verified by investigation, even by a political appointee, sympathetic to his ideas. In fact, Sternberg still has his job, still has access to facilities there, and has not, contrary to his claims, been run out of the Smithsonian.

Surely the scientific community as a whole is above that kind of childish behavior?

Yes, they are. Evolutionary theory is a good example. It has been fundamentally changed several times, in response to criticism by scientists who found flaws in it. The transition included a good deal of lively, even angry debate, but ultimately, a new consensus, incorprorating the objections, was reached.

ID is brittle and unchanging because it is a religious doctrine and not open to evidence. Science changes in response to new evidence because that's the way science works.

They make very boastful claims to defend themselves and use that as a foundation of their argument in why they need not hear what anyone else has to say. I don't think it's too much to ask them to put up or shut up and step aside and let real scientists do their job.

IDers have a right to do so. They do not have a right to expect scientists to take them seriously. The quality of the evidence will determine that.

Over and over in the news the evolutionists continue to use the same lines, boycott meetings, etc.

Politics is not what science is about. ID spends a huge amount of money and time trying to show that their campaign is not falling apart. They would be better off avoiding meetings and PR events, and trying to find some evidence for their ideas.

If ID worked, scientists would use it, even if it was outlawed. But it doesn't work. And even politicians passing laws and standards will not make them use it.

It doesn't work. And if it doesn't work, what good is it?

The herd looks desperate.

IDers are desperate, because people like Michael Denton are moving from ID to science. As they lose adherents, you will see more and more shrill denunciations of science, and bigger and bigger PR stunts to convince us that it's not dying.

IDers still mutter their claim that their objectives are scientific, but the Wedge Document, in which they outlined their objectives to one another, makes it very clear that they are lying...

"Governing Goals

To defeat scientific materialism and its destructive moral, cultural and political legacies.

To replace materialistic explanations with the theistic understanding that nature and hurnan beings are created by God."


Someone from the Discovery Institute accidentally sent the document out in a package of press releases. When the media became aware of it, and scientists learned what the hidden agenda was, the game was over.

ID may find a receptive audience among the haters of science, and politicians eager for an issue to attract voters.

But it's dead on arrival as far as science is concerned. And as the word travels, the few scientists who were interested in it, are falling away.
 
If these were facts against theories, I would understand the argument. But what we have here is theory vs. theory. One is allowed, the other is not, because the herd so decrees.

Sternberg is hardly a good example of the scientific committee. His attacks on the Smithsonian haven't been verified by investigation, even by a political appointee, sympathetic to his ideas. In fact, Sternberg still has his job, still has access to facilities there, and has not, contrary to his claims, been run out of the Smithsonian.

He is not Idist or a creationist. He simply wanted "science" to evaluate all possibilities honestly, and they attacked him.

Yes, they are. Evolutionary theory is a good example. It has been fundamentally changed several times, in response to criticism by scientists who found flaws in it. The transition included a good deal of lively, even angry debate, but ultimately, a new consensus, incorprorating the objections, was reached.

This is exactly my point. If it's within the boundaries of evolution, it's welcomed and debated. Remove the foundational theory of evolution, and it's ignored, shunned, and attacked.

ID is brittle and unchanging because it is a religious doctrine and not open to evidence. Science changes in response to new evidence because that's the way science works.

Not open to evidence? :o I could say the same for evolution. There is in fact no proof, yet they continue looking. Seems the side that would fit the definition of religious doctrine would depend on who was doing the evaluating, an honest scientist, or an evolutionist.

IDers have a right to do so. They do not have a right to expect scientists to take them seriously. The quality of the evidence will determine that.

Again, based on the quality of evidence, if this is the standard, evolution should be ignored. Two sets of standards, though, as usual.

Politics is not what science is about. ID spends a huge amount of money and time trying to show that their campaign is not falling apart. They would be better off avoiding meetings and PR events, and trying to find some evidence for their ideas.

If ID worked, scientists would use it, even if it was outlawed. But it doesn't work. And even politicians passing laws and standards will not make them use it.

It doesn't work. And if it doesn't work, what good is it?

= Two sets of standards again. You guys think too highly of evolution. Evolution does not work either, yet it is accepted.

IDers are desperate, because people like Michael Denton are moving from ID to science. As they lose adherents, you will see more and more shrill denunciations of science, and bigger and bigger PR stunts to convince us that it's not dying.

IDers still mutter their claim that their objectives are scientific, but the Wedge Document, in which they outlined their objectives to one another, makes it very clear that they are lying...

"Governing Goals

To defeat scientific materialism and its destructive moral, cultural and political legacies.

To replace materialistic explanations with the theistic understanding that nature and hurnan beings are created by God."

Someone from the Discovery Institute accidentally sent the document out in a package of press releases. When the media became aware of it, and scientists learned what the hidden agenda was, the game was over.

ID may find a receptive audience among the haters of science, and politicians eager for an issue to attract voters.

But it's dead on arrival as far as science is concerned. And as the word travels, the few scientists who were interested in it, are falling away.

I'm not an IDer, i'm a young earth Creationist, but I don't hate true science. Science has been and always will be in line with the truths of scripture. Science cannot learn anything with their current attitude towards seeking the truth. This is why the US is falling behind other countries in scientific study.

If Sternberg had some valid questions, why was he attacked instead of answered? The fact is that evolutionists do not want to admit that evolution is 100% theory, just as they criticize everyone else to be. It sounds very hypocritical to everyone but them.
 
No, see, it is Theory that is likely, vs theory that is as of this time, impossible.
 
If these were facts against theories, I would understand the argument. But what we have here is theory vs. theory.

No, it is theory vs. religious doctrine. ID is a religious doctrine.

One is allowed, the other is not, because the herd so decrees.

Science is unable to use religion or magic. You should understand that in order to qualify as a theory, there must be many facts that support an idea. An hypothesis does not become a theory until there is a large body of evidence to support it.

Barbarian observes:
Sternberg is hardly a good example of the scientific committee. His attacks on the Smithsonian haven't been verified by investigation, even by a political appointee, sympathetic to his ideas. In fact, Sternberg still has his job, still has access to facilities there, and has not, contrary to his claims, been run out of the Smithsonian.

He is not Idist or a creationist. He simply wanted "science" to evaluate all possibilities honestly, and they attacked him.

Actually, Sternberg has indeed been involved with creationist and ID organizations. He has since admitted that much.

Barbarian observes:
Yes, they are. Evolutionary theory is a good example. It has been fundamentally changed several times, in response to criticism by scientists who found flaws in it. The transition included a good deal of lively, even angry debate, but ultimately, a new consensus, incorprorating the objections, was reached.

This is exactly my point. If it's within the boundaries of evolution, it's welcomed and debated. Remove the foundational theory of evolution, and it's ignored, shunned, and attacked.

That's like saying that physicists would welcome things within the boundary of matter and energy. Since evolution is directly observed, it would be rather hard to imagine what evidence might refute it.

If that happened, scientists would abandon matter and energy. But you'd have a very difficult doing that. Likewise, there is so much evidence for evolution, it is difficult to see what evidence might overrule it.

Barbarian observes:
ID is brittle and unchanging because it is a religious doctrine and not open to evidence. Science changes in response to new evidence because that's the way science works.

Not open to evidence? I could say the same for evolution.

That's demonstrably wrong. It has been changed repeatedly as evidence indicated a need. ID will never do that, because it is a religion.

There is in fact no proof, yet they continue looking.

Science is inductive, and does not deal in logical certainty. It merely makes inferences from evidence. However, the evidence is overwhelming, which is why people who understand biology overwhelminging accept it.

Seems the side that would fit the definition of religious doctrine would depend on who was doing the evaluating, an honest scientist, or an evolutionist.

It would seem hilariously wrong to suppose that thousands of scientists for well over a hundred years, could maintain a conspiracy to delude people. Too paranoid to be seriously considered.

Barbarian observes:
IDers have a right to do so. They do not have a right to expect scientists to take them seriously. The quality of the evidence will determine that.

Again, based on the quality of evidence, if this is the standard, evolution should be ignored.

Perhaps you don't know much about biology. Do you think it's significant that the people who do, accept evolution?

Barbarian observes:
Politics is not what science is about. ID spends a huge amount of money and time trying to show that their campaign is not falling apart. They would be better off avoiding meetings and PR events, and trying to find some evidence for their ideas.

If ID worked, scientists would use it, even if it was outlawed. But it doesn't work. And even politicians passing laws and standards will not make them use it.

It doesn't work. And if it doesn't work, what good is it?

Two sets of standards again.

Nope. That's how science works.

You guys think too highly of evolution.

It's a remarkable phenomenon. And the evidence is compelling. Would you like to learn about some of it?

Evolution does not work either,

It's directly observed. Even the evolution of new species is observed. And natural selection is a fact. We even have directly-observed evolution of irreducibly-complex features.

yet it is accepted.

Remember, evidence counts. Nothing else does.

Barbarian observes:
IDers are desperate, because people like Michael Denton are moving from ID to science. As they lose adherents, you will see more and more shrill denunciations of science, and bigger and bigger PR stunts to convince us that it's not dying.

IDers still mutter their claim that their objectives are scientific, but the Wedge Document, in which they outlined their objectives to one another, makes it very clear that they are lying...

"Governing Goals

To defeat scientific materialism and its destructive moral, cultural and political legacies.

To replace materialistic explanations with the theistic understanding that nature and hurnan beings are created by God."

Someone from the Discovery Institute accidentally sent the document out in a package of press releases. When the media became aware of it, and scientists learned what the hidden agenda was, the game was over.

ID may find a receptive audience among the haters of science, and politicians eager for an issue to attract voters.

But it's dead on arrival as far as science is concerned. And as the word travels, the few scientists who were interested in it, are falling away.

I'm not an IDer, i'm a young earth Creationist, but I don't hate true science.

If you are a young Earth creationist, you reject true science.

Science has been and always will be in line with the truths of scripture.

That's true. YE creationists reject the parts of scripture that are not consistent with their beliefs.

Science cannot learn anything with their current attitude towards seeking the truth.

It turns out that it does. Science is spectacularly successful at learning how the physical world works.

This is why the US is falling behind other countries in scientific study.

Other countries spend a great deal of time on evolution in public school classrooms. The United States does very little. However, in colleges the opposite is true. Evolution is widely taught. This is why the US leads in Nobel Prizes, and many other areas of science; we are the world leader in science.

If Sternberg had some valid questions, why was he attacked instead of answered?

He had no valid questions. What do you think he said?

The fact is that evolutionists do not want to admit that evolution is 100% theory,

Technically, gravity and evolution are phenomena, and gravitational theory and evolutionary theory are the things that explain them. Both are 100% theory, because they have a very large body of data to support them. Is is possible you don't know what "theory" means in science?
 
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