[_ Old Earth _] Embryonic stem cell research

[Oran_Taran]

Well, I know that most catholics will be against it, but what about the rest of you? What do you all think about embryonic stem cell research?
If you don't know what it is, or don't know enough, here's a site that explains it pretty well.
http://science.howstuffworks.com/stem-cell.htm
in short-
stem cells- can change into other types of cells.
2 types of stem cells, adult and embryonic. embryonic ones can change into ANY other cell, while adult ones can only change to a few.
embryonic stem cells are only (ONLY) found in blastocysts, which are tiny balls of cells that are no bigger than the period at the end of this sentence.
Most embryonic stem cells come from fertility clinics, which throw away hundreds of embryos every year.
NONE come from aborted fetuses, as the cells in fetuses (looks strange, but apparently I'm spelling it right) have already differentiated (become other types of cell.
stem cells have been used to cure or treat a few illnesses, such as lukemia, and they have a LOT of potential for curing almost every kind of disease out there.

 

[Lyric's Dad]

I am against it. I am against the misuse of life and the taking of the life of a child for any reason..

 

[Oran_Taran]

I am against the misuse of life and the taking of the life of a child for any reason..

I think it's the other way around.
Human beings are much more than just a bunch of cells, we are a mix of feelings (such as touch, taste, etc), emotions (anger, fear, love, caring), thoughts (like I'm thinking right now), self-awareness, etc, none of which the embryos have. The life that ball of cells have is just like the life that skin cells have. No feelings, emotions, thoughts, or any of the things that make us human. You kill hundreds of those kinds of cells every single time you scratch your arm.
And BECAUSE human life is much more than just cells, I argue that saying that the blastula is a child is actually demeaning life. What's worse, is that it's not only demeaning life, but that it's at the cost of REAL, present human beings that are desperate for cures. By destroying something that is this big (.) or smaller, horrible diseases such as alzheimer's, parkinsons, cancer, and scores more can be prevented, treated or cured.
Besides, the vast majority of embryos would have been destroyed whether or not they were used to save lives or not. Like I said, fertility clinics throw away hundreds of embryos every year, which could be used to cure people.

So in short, I think that NOT using embryos, which would have been destroyed anyway, for research to cure diseases is what is misusing life. Not the meaningless life of a ball of cells, but the very meaningful lives of people suffering from those diseases.

 

[Grengor]

Isn't all the stem cells we need in the umbilical cord?

 

[cubedbee]

I am against it. I am against the misuse of life and the taking of the life of a child for any reason..

But it's not the taking of life. It's the using of discarded embryonic cells--the lives are taken whether or not they are used---why would you think it is better that the cells simply be thrown away instead of being put to a use that could help save peoples lives and heal diseases? That just doesn't make sense--the evil has already been done by others, in the past, nothing you can do about it--but from here on forth the good thing to do is to use the cells for something good, something useful, something that give hope.

 

[peace4all]

I am a strong believer in blood/organ donation. I did the max blood donations this year (yes, all 6 yay!* and I have already signed the fact that I will be donating ALL of my organs that can be used, and my body to science.

From my "afterlife" views

What is the point of keeping a useless shell, for what ever comes next, when someone alive now, could benifit from it?

I would say YES! use those stem cells. Use as many as you can! save our children. stop these diseases

 

[Oran_Taran]

Isn't all the stem cells we need in the umbilical cord?

No, because those are adult stem cells. Yes, that's another science term that's weird, but like I said before, embryonic stem cells ONLY come from the tiny embryos smaller than the period at the end of this sentence. The umbilical cord cells have already either differentiated or become adult stem cells.
don't get me wrong... they ARE useful and I believe they use them for lukemia patients, but they're not as useful or with as much potential as embryonic stem cells. They couldn't turn into brain cells for example (for alzheimer's patients, parkinsons, etc)

I am a strong believer in blood/organ donation. I did the max blood donations this year (yes, all 6 yay!* and I have already signed the fact that I will be donating ALL of my organs that can be used, and my body to science.

Wow, that's great :D I'm not sure about donnating blood (at least not as much as you do lol), but I'll definately donnate my organs.

 

[dad]

But it's not the taking of life. It's the using of discarded embryonic cells--

I remember reading one time about garbage bags full of 'discarded' babies, that mothers had assassinated before they could be born, out behind a clinic! First they kill em, then they say that they are discarded. Frankensteinian debauchery, and butchery probably enequaled in history, they waste em by the millions.

 

[peace4all]

they only allow a donation once every liek 56 days? so that adds up to at most, 6 times A year.

I feel that since I cannot afford to give money, I give what I can. Old clothes, blood, time etc..

umm, the whoel garbage bag thing...

when artificial insemination occurs, they have to try it several times, and usually only 1 works. However, when 3-4 of the cells turn into the little 8 celled balls, then what, are they liek "well, too bad, now you have triplets!"

 

[Oran_Taran]

when artificial insemination occurs, they have to try it several times, and usually only 1 works. However, when 3-4 of the cells turn into the little 8 celled balls, then what, are they liek "well, too bad, now you have triplets!"

Since not all embryos actually latch on to the uterus and begin feeding from the mom, they implant a lot of embryos so that they only have to do it once since it's so expensive. However, that is why many IVF (in vitro fertilization) mothers have multiple births (the rate of multiple births is much higher than regular people)... I don't think they abort often though. I think that generally, (since they DID want babies in the first place, and since they knew the risk of having multiple births) mothers only have abortions if their lives, or the lives of the babies are in danger, because of course as the number of babies go up, so do the number of dangers facing both babies and mother. And besides, they don't abort ALL the babies, just enough so that it's safe.

as for abortions, they have nothing to do with embryonic stem cell research. As I've already stated You can't get embryonic stem cells from aborted fetuses.

Oh, and did you know that many times the zygote (fertilized egg) NATURALLY dies because it doesn't latch on to the mother's womb? That is one reason why many times when people have sex, they don't have a baby. It's just washed away along with the blood and stuff from the menstrual cycle.
Apparently humans were very badly "designed".

 

[Lyric's Dad]

they only allow a donation once every liek 56 days? so that adds up to at most, 6 times A year.

I feel that since I cannot afford to give money, I give what I can. Old clothes, blood, time etc..

umm, the whoel garbage bag thing...

when artificial insemination occurs, they have to try it several times, and usually only 1 works. However, when 3-4 of the cells turn into the little 8 celled balls, then what, are they liek "well, too bad, now you have triplets!"

I think that is exactly what should happen. People going in know that there is a very high chance that there will be multiple children that come to into life through the process. They should be ready to parent each of them if they are going to do it at all. Otherwish it is taking life.

 

[ArtGuy]

No, because those are adult stem cells. Yes, that's another science term that's weird, but like I said before, embryonic stem cells ONLY come from the tiny embryos smaller than the period at the end of this sentence. The umbilical cord cells have already either differentiated or become adult stem cells.
don't get me wrong... they ARE useful and I believe they use them for lukemia patients, but they're not as useful or with as much potential as embryonic stem cells. They couldn't turn into brain cells for example (for alzheimer's patients, parkinsons, etc)

Actually, there's strong evidence that adult stem cells are capable of transdifferentiation. They have a huge amount of potential, perhaps as much as embryonic stem cells, and there are no ethical concerns at all. It seems rather silly to invest a bunch of effort into a field which is morally dubious and may only possibly be of any value, rather than focusing on a branch of research that is definitely of value in many cases, may be just as lucrative, and doesn't involve killing embryos.

And before anyone trots out the fact that these are simply leftover embryos from IVF, I should point out that I'm not a big fan of IVF, either. There's no reason outside of vanity and selfishness why a couple absolutely needs to bear their own children, when adoption is cheaper, arguably better for society, and doesn't require mass-producing a bunch of doomed embryos.

 

[Oran_Taran]

Actually, there's strong evidence that adult stem cells are capable of transdifferentiation. They have a huge amount of potential

Nobody's disputing the fact that they can turn into other types of cells. that's the very definition of stem cells isn't it?

perhaps as much as embryonic stem cells, and there are no ethical concerns at all.

Well, it is much easier to grow embryonic stem cells in a lab, as well as induce them to change. Not to mention that embryonic stem cells can change into any of the hundreds of types of cell in the body, while as I understand it, adult stem cells can only turn into the tissure they were around in (for example bone marrow cells can only turn into red and white blood cells and platelets)

And before anyone trots out the fact that these are simply leftover embryos from IVF, I should point out that I'm not a big fan of IVF, either. There's no reason outside of vanity and selfishness why a couple absolutely needs to bear their own children, when adoption is cheaper, arguably better for society, and doesn't require mass-producing a bunch of doomed embryos.

Actually I agree. I'm a strong believer of abortion. I don't want any kids, but if I ever do, I'll probably adopt.
I don't think IVF should be ILLEGAL... I think there should be incentives to adopt instead of have IVF and stuff, but you can't make it illegal. And since IVF is still going to be done, why not use their waste to save people?

oh yeah, and from the wikipedia article you cited:

This characteristic property distinguishes embryonic stem cells from adult stem cells or progenitor cells, the latter two of which only have the capacity to form a limited number of different cell types. Because of their unique combined abilities of unlimited expansion and pluripotency, embryonic stem cells potentially are the ultimate source for regenerative medicine and tissue replacement after injury or disease.

 

[KnarfKS]

Just remember if you have a baby have them take cord blood. Most states have a reserve of this blood that can be used for stem cell research and especially for bone marrow transplants.

There are also many private companies that do this as well.

I think there should be incentives to adopt instead of have IVF and stuff

I completely agree. It costs people tens of thousands of $ to adopt kids. Anyone willing to have sex can make one without anyone caring, but people who can't have them and want a kid have to pay through the nose. It doesn't make sense. Especially when the state has to pay to care for them anyway.