?? Ezekiel 38 How could it happen in the 1st Century ??

[nonbelieverforums]

I am not sure I got an answer to my question I have changed it somewhat near the end.


This relates to Ezekiel 38 and the many christians who believe we are very close to seeing this conflict arrise with the current relationship between Russia/Iran/China and the conflicts Israel.

As I ask this question today, on June 18, 2009 Mahmoud Ahmadinejad met with Russian President Dmitry Medvedev and leaders of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) to continue building a political and "military alliance" between Russia, China, Iran and Islamic countries in Central Asia. Currently, Iran has “observer†status in the SCO, but has requested full member status. Please go to http://www.sectsco.org/EN/ for more information on the SCO.

Many Christians who study prophecy see the SCO alliance as the biblical alliance foretold in Ezekiel 38-39 that will come against Israel and seek to destroy the Jewish people in what the Bible calls the “last days†of history.

If this conflict already happened in the first century how so? What countries were inolved? But most importantly how were they united and by who? What method was used to reunite so many? Why does the SCO and the members of it now match the countries that will charge against Israel as in Ezekiel 38.

The SCO membership is currently Russia, China, and four ex-Soviet countries in Central Asia. Iran has observer status. Ezekiel 38:1-6 predicts that Rosh (Russia), Persia (Iran), and Magog (Central Asia) will form a confederation of nations that will invade Israel. The nations of Central Asia, that were formerly a part of the Soviet Union, have a current Muslim population of about 60 million. The growing alliances between Russia, Iran, and these Central Asian nations apper to match the Gog coalition. Another coincidence?

One of the things I do in my Ministry is show people the bible is true as many ways as possible. I have videos of the results archaeological findings for example, things like Noah's Ark discovered, proof of the Red Sea crossing etc..

We know that the armies were defeated and in Ezekiel 39:12-16 it takes/took 7 Months to burry the dead.

A great percentage of the bible has been proven time and time again from archaeological findings and digs. With this many defeated and burried where are the graves of these massive armys and why haven't they been found? Are they unmarked gaves? If so why unmarked? One big grave ? How did Russia Persia and China bury their dead back then ? On what land were they burried?

I also ask the question about the number of the Kings of The East. How is it if this happened in the first century that anyone would know the population. Kings of the East is believed to be China (is it China in the first Centruy then?) But the population of China has never been that great until now in the modern day. Now because of China's laws about the population, many Chinese citizens give up or abort their girls. These leaves a large number of Chinese men. I just can't see these numbers of this army in the first Century?

I am not satisfied with any of the answers given by the Preterists with respect to how the River Euphrates was dried in the first century. The Bible says "dried" not shallow. The Atatürk Dam which was completed in 1990 has the ability to dry this river now with the push of a button. How so back then ?

 

[Shilohsfoal]

The events in Eze 38 did not take place in the first century.It takes place at the end of the 1000 year reign of Christ.This is what the book of revelation says about what happens to Gog and Magog when it comes against Israel.

Rev 20;7-9
And when the thousand years are expired,Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
And shall go out to decieve the nations which are in the four quaters of the earth.Gog and Magog,to gather them together to battle;the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
And they went up on the breadth of the earth,and compassed the camp of the saints about,and the beloved city;and fire came down from God out of heaven,and devoured them.

Some people call this a war but it doesnt seem to be much of one.What would you expect when God fights for you!

 

[nonbelieverforums]

You have me completely confused then.

Armies in the millions and those armies were defeated. Then in Ezekiel 39:12-16 it takes 7 Months to burry the dead. Thats alot of casualties no?? How did so many cross the "dried" Euphrates River ? How was this river dried back then? Clearly it can't be god drying a river to attack Israel ?

Were are the graves of these men?


Are you full or partial ??

 

[Shilohsfoal]

You have me completely confused then.

Armies in the millions and those armies were defeated. Then in Ezekiel 39:12-16 it takes 7 Months to burry the dead. Thats alot of casualties no?? How did so many cross the "dried" Euphrates River ? How was this river dried back then? Clearly it can't be god drying a river to attack Israel ?

Were are the graves of these men?


Are you full or partial ??

Im saying this hasnt taken place yet.It takes place 1000 years after Armegedon.
Since you wasnt getting any replies from the preterists,I thought I would clear it up for everyone.

 

[nonbelieverforums]

ahhh ok -- Thank you.

I have been wondering where they have been lurking,, they seem quite on this one.

Maybe this is my punishment for not responding to the Hyper Futurist Challange post... I don't even understand the question.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

ahhh ok -- Thank you.

I have been wondering where they have been lurking,, they seem quite on this one.

Maybe this is my punishment for not responding to the Hyper Futurist Challange post... I don't even understand the question.

Could be they have no answer to your question.

 

[nonbelieverforums]

Yes so far I have been very disappointed ... seems they do want to avoid this one.

 

[parousia70]

It's really quite simple.

1st century weaponry = 1st century Battle.

Your demands for a "literal" drying on the Euphrates went out the window in the wake of your own need to spiritualize of the weaponry.

 

[whirlwind]

The events in Eze 38 did not take place in the first century.It takes place at the end of the 1000 year reign of Christ.This is what the book of revelation says about what happens to Gog and Magog when it comes against Israel.

Rev 20;7-9
And when the thousand years are expired,Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
And shall go out to decieve the nations which are in the four quaters of the earth.Gog and Magog,to gather them together to battle;the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
And they went up on the breadth of the earth,and compassed the camp of the saints about,and the beloved city;and fire came down from God out of heaven,and devoured them.

Some people call this a war but it doesnt seem to be much of one.What would you expect when God fights for you!

There are three battles. One is Armageddon [Revelation 16:16], which is a spiritual battle, a gathering of those who follow God and those who follow Satan. It is ongoing but ends before the millennium. Another is the first Gog, the land of Magog, which [Ezekiel 38] describes. It happens before the millennium....I believe it is a literal, not spiritual, battle. The other is Gog/Magog, which transpires at the end of the millennium [Revelation 20:8]. That is the final battle of good vs. evil. God wins. As you wrote..."what would you expect when God fights for you." :yes

 

[whirlwind]

I am not sure I got an answer to my question I have changed it somewhat near the end.


This relates to Ezekiel 38 and the many christians who believe we are very close to seeing this conflict arrise with the current relationship between Russia/Iran/China and the conflicts Israel.

As I ask this question today, on June 18, 2009 Mahmoud Ahmadinejad met with Russian President Dmitry Medvedev and leaders of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) to continue building a political and "military alliance" between Russia, China, Iran and Islamic countries in Central Asia. Currently, Iran has “observer†status in the SCO, but has requested full member status. Please go to http://www.sectsco.org/EN/ for more information on the SCO.

Many Christians who study prophecy see the SCO alliance as the biblical alliance foretold in Ezekiel 38-39 that will come against Israel and seek to destroy the Jewish people in what the Bible calls the “last days†of history.

If this conflict already happened in the first century how so? What countries were inolved? But most importantly how were they united and by who? What method was used to reunite so many? Why does the SCO and the members of it now match the countries that will charge against Israel as in Ezekiel 38.

The SCO membership is currently Russia, China, and four ex-Soviet countries in Central Asia. Iran has observer status. Ezekiel 38:1-6 predicts that Rosh (Russia), Persia (Iran), and Magog (Central Asia) will form a confederation of nations that will invade Israel. The nations of Central Asia, that were formerly a part of the Soviet Union, have a current Muslim population of about 60 million. The growing alliances between Russia, Iran, and these Central Asian nations apper to match the Gog coalition. Another coincidence?

One of the things I do in my Ministry is show people the bible is true as many ways as possible. I have videos of the results archaeological findings for example, things like Noah's Ark discovered, proof of the Red Sea crossing etc..

We know that the armies were defeated and in Ezekiel 39:12-16 it takes/took 7 Months to burry the dead.

A great percentage of the bible has been proven time and time again from archaeological findings and digs. With this many defeated and burried where are the graves of these massive armys and why haven't they been found? Are they unmarked gaves? If so why unmarked? One big grave ? How did Russia Persia and China bury their dead back then ? On what land were they burried?

It is future. There is no biblical record as there has not yet been a battle

I also ask the question about the number of the Kings of The East. How is it if this happened in the first century that anyone would know the population. Kings of the East is believed to be China (is it China in the first Centruy then?) But the population of China has never been that great until now in the modern day. Now because of China's laws about the population, many Chinese citizens give up or abort their girls. These leaves a large number of Chinese men. I just can't see these numbers of this army in the first Century?

I am not satisfied with any of the answers given by the Preterists with respect to how the River Euphrates was dried in the first century. The Bible says "dried" not shallow. The Atatürk Dam which was completed in 1990 has the ability to dry this river now with the push of a button. How so back then ?

It is future. I also believe it is spiritual. On another thread we just discussed that "rivers" are symbolic of words, a flow of words. The river Euphrates feeds Egypt, which is symbolic of the world and the prince of this world is Satan...at the present time. His feeding of the world will be dried up.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

The events in Eze 38 did not take place in the first century.It takes place at the end of the 1000 year reign of Christ.This is what the book of revelation says about what happens to Gog and Magog when it comes against Israel.

Rev 20;7-9
And when the thousand years are expired,Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
And shall go out to decieve the nations which are in the four quaters of the earth.Gog and Magog,to gather them together to battle;the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
And they went up on the breadth of the earth,and compassed the camp of the saints about,and the beloved city;and fire came down from God out of heaven,and devoured them.

Some people call this a war but it doesnt seem to be much of one.What would you expect when God fights for you!

There are three battles. One is Armageddon [Revelation 16:16], which is a spiritual battle, a gathering of those who follow God and those who follow Satan. It is ongoing but ends before the millennium. Another is the first Gog, the land of Magog, which [Ezekiel 38] describes. It happens before the millennium....I believe it is a literal, not spiritual, battle. The other is Gog/Magog, which transpires at the end of the millennium [Revelation 20:8]. That is the final battle of good vs. evil. God wins. As you wrote..."what would you expect when God fights for you." :yes

Ezekiel 38;11
And thou shalt say,I will go up to the land of unwalled villiages;Iwill go to them that are at rest,that dwell safely,all of them dwelling without walls,and having neither bars nor gates.

If you think you will find a place without defences before the millenium,go ahead and find it.
But if you cant find such a place then know these people have been at rest for 1000 years.

 

[whirlwind]

The events in Eze 38 did not take place in the first century.It takes place at the end of the 1000 year reign of Christ.This is what the book of revelation says about what happens to Gog and Magog when it comes against Israel.

Rev 20;7-9
And when the thousand years are expired,Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
And shall go out to decieve the nations which are in the four quaters of the earth.Gog and Magog,to gather them together to battle;the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
And they went up on the breadth of the earth,and compassed the camp of the saints about,and the beloved city;and fire came down from God out of heaven,and devoured them.

Some people call this a war but it doesnt seem to be much of one.What would you expect when God fights for you!

There are three battles. One is Armageddon [Revelation 16:16], which is a spiritual battle, a gathering of those who follow God and those who follow Satan. It is ongoing but ends before the millennium. Another is the first Gog, the land of Magog, which [Ezekiel 38] describes. It happens before the millennium....I believe it is a literal, not spiritual, battle. The other is Gog/Magog, which transpires at the end of the millennium [Revelation 20:8]. That is the final battle of good vs. evil. God wins. As you wrote..."what would you expect when God fights for you." :yes

Ezekiel 38;11
And thou shalt say,I will go up to the land of unwalled villiages;Iwill go to them that are at rest,that dwell safely,all of them dwelling without walls,and having neither bars nor gates.

If you think you will find a place without defences before the millenium,go ahead and find it.
But if you cant find such a place then know these people have been at rest for 1000 years.

To me, it isn't a land without defences (such as an army, etc.) but a land of folks at rest, that don't have forts and walls protecting each town and city, that dwell safely in their land (at least until 9/11).

 

[Matthew24:34]

Futurists who refuse to accept the plain time frame of the NT writings always go back to their favorite OT passages (passages I doubt they have not fully studied themselves) to attempt to undo all the teachings of preterism! All the truths of preterism fall in a heap before their desperate appeal to 2 Peter 3:8. All the truths of preterism melt away in the futurists' "understanding" of Zechariah 14 and Ezekiel 38!

I wonder whether NBF have even studied the complete book of Ezekiel and answered the following questions: Who was he? When did he live? When did he write?

Why don't NBF simply enlighten all of us as to the real meaning of Ezekiel 38--in context, verse by verse before he asks how it could have happened in the 1st century! Why doesn't NBF first answer the preterists' questions concerning the entire timing of the Revelation, because there is no doubt that he will draw a connection between Ezekiel 38 and the Revelation. IF the one was to occur in that time which was to shortly take place in John's day (a time frame NBF vehemently and without justification denies--Oh, except for his desperate appeal to 2 Peter 3:8 which in his mind makes it all go away!), then any relationship to Ezekiel makes it fulfilled as well!

Matthew24:34

 

[Vic C.]

Adam Clarke was a well known Biblical scholar and historian of his time and is well respected to this day. Whenever I need some historical background on the books of the Bible, I start with him. He also goes into depth on doctrinal when needed too.

Here is his historical commentaries on the book in question.

http://www.studylight.org/com/acc/view. ... hapter=038

 

[samuel]

The battle of Gog/Magog, did not take place in the first century. Nor did it have anything to do with Antiochus Epiphanes, there are too many nations mentioned to limit this battle to any account Biblically, or historically in the first century.

It does not take place at the end of the millennium, that is a different Gog/Magog battle. There would be no burying of the dead for seven years, as the General Judgment takes place just after this battle. Besides there is no Sixth part left at this battle, complete annihilation is the result of this one.

The battle of Ezekiel 38, is the fulfillment of Psalm 83. And involves all the Muslim nations surrounding Israel, including Iran (old Persia). There are some that believe this battle takes place before the Tribulation, I don’t. I think it is synonymous, with the Battle of Armageddon. The judgments are to similar, and other events taking place seem to point to a time concurrent with Armageddon.

As far as saying what modern day Nations (ie. Russia), are involved in this battle. There is just not enough evidence to make a commitment to this. You cannot do it by comparing old Biblical names, with modern day city names.

 

[parousia70]

The battle of Ezekiel 38, is the fulfillment of Psalm 83. And involves all the Muslim nations surrounding Israel, including Iran (old Persia). There are some that believe this battle takes place before the Tribulation, I don’t. I think it is synonymous, with the Battle of Armageddon. The judgments are to similar, and other events taking place seem to point to a time concurrent with Armageddon.

Fought with Bows, arrows, spears and Javelins by armies on Horseback?

As far as saying what modern day Nations (ie. Russia), are involved in this battle.... You cannot do it by comparing old Biblical names, with modern day city names.

On that point at least, you are spot on

 

[nonbelieverforums]

Tuesday, July 14, 2009

Bible Predicts: Israel to Nab Russian, Iranian Nukes


By Bill Salus

In light of the rumors of war between Israel and Iran these days there is a military intelligence report circulating that is commanding an enormous amount of Christian attention. The contents of this document are contained in Ezekiel chapters 38 and 39. These ancient biblical writings forewarn the world that Russia will form a nine-member coalition and invade modern-day Israel. Coincidentally, Iran, formerly known as Persia, is listed within this Russian consortium.

Many eschatologists are suggesting that the fulfillment of this Bible prophecy could occur soon because Russian and Iranian national relations are at an all-time high and Russia is proactively assisting Iran's bid for nuclear weapons.

Adding fuel to the fire, Iran's recently re-elected president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, has previously declared Israel should be wiped off of the map, and Israel's present leadership believes that Iran will soon have the nuclear wherewithal to accomplish his Jewish genocidal goal.

Without extending into a detailed Bible study nor an active litany of current Israel and Iran centered military events, the prophetic point of interest is that Russia's confederacy will be divinely defeated, and the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) will confiscate a massive amount of its state of the art weaponry. This conclusion can be drawn from the events described in Ezekiel 38:18-39:9.

Ezekiel 39:9 informs us that in the aftermath of Russia's invasion the Jews will possess much of, if not all of, Russia's, Iran's, Turkey's, Libya's and the other five confederate members' advanced arsenals. This intelligence information suggests that some of these weapons will potentially be nuclear in nature – we are informed that Israel will be converting these weapons into fuel for seven years.

In addition to this massive weapons cache, it is highly possible that Israel will already possess at the time large quantities of the current Syrian, Egyptian, Saudi, Jordanian, Lebanese, Hezbollah and Hamas Arab arsenals as well. As I detail in my book "Isralestine, The Ancient Blueprints of the Future Middle East," Israel will likely conquer these populations and confiscate their weapons prior to the events described in Ezekiel 38 and 39 in conjunction with the Bible prophecy of Psalm 83.

Presently, some Christian leaders are closely examining the staggering ramifications of a Greater Israel coming into existence in the aftermath of the prophetic events described above. For instance, for decades many Bible-based believers have been taught that the Antichrist will create a temporary end-times peace in the Middle East. The general understanding gathered from prophecies contained in Daniel 9:27, Isaiah 28:15,18 and elsewhere is that this charismatic last-days world leader will initiate a false seven year covenant that finally brings peace to the Middle East and protects the Jews from the Arabs and/or vice versa.

However, the new Psalm 83 insights, as Bible prophecy expert Dr. David Reagan calls them, contained in "Isralestine" have many scholars re-thinking their end-times models. It is entirely possible that the powerful prophetic events blueprinted in Psalm 83 and Ezekiel 38 and 39 occur prior to the arrival of the Antichrist.

This possibility suggests that his false covenant with Israel is not an Arab-Israeli peace pact since Mideast peace would have already been achieved through the might of the IDF. This new presupposition has eschatologists pondering the possible content of the false covenant from a new Greater Israel prophetic perspective.

If, as Bible prophecy suggests, Israel soon becomes one of the world's mightiest military nations why will they concern themselves with a seven-year covenant, and what might this treaty propose? To answer these questions one must advance the clock into the geo-political future and replace the struggling-to-survive lesser Israel of today with the mighty Greater Israel of tomorrow.