Fishers of men - A deepened meaning?

[YosefHayim]

I watch a guy on YouTube called Round SaturnsEye. He tends to be hyper-eisegetical. It seems he does wordplay with life. I find him entertaining. However there are things that he says that makes me think.

Recently I watched a video, read some comments, and had some thoughts. Let's take a look when Jesus healed a man which was possessed with a legion of devils in Luke 8.

And they besought him that he would not command them to go out into the deep. Luke 8:31
​

The word for the deep in the Greek is abysson [Strong's G12]. They ask not to be sent to a distant place, the abyss. In revelation we see the beast is thrown into the abyss.

The root word of the Greek abysson is bythos

From ἄλφα (G1) (as a negative particle) and a variation of βυθός (G1037)
​

So could that mean that Jesus walking on the waters shows his authority over the abyss? Furthermore Jesus told us to be fishers of men...

Are we casting fishing line of the Gospel to save men from the abyss?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

So could that mean that Jesus walking on the waters shows his authority over the abyss?

Prolly not.

 

[smaller]

I watch a guy on YouTube called Round SaturnsEye. He tends to be hyper-eisegetical. It seems he does wordplay with life. I find him entertaining. However there are things that he says that makes me think.

Recently I watched a video, read some comments, and had some thoughts. Let's take a look when Jesus healed a man which was possessed with a legion of devils in Luke 8.

And they besought him that he would not command them to go out into the deep. Luke 8:31
​

The word for the deep in the Greek is abysson [Strong's G12]. They ask not to be sent to a distant place, the abyss. In revelation we see the beast is thrown into the abyss.

The root word of the Greek abysson is bythos

From ἄλφα (G1) (as a negative particle) and a variation of βυθός (G1037)
​

So could that mean that Jesus walking on the waters shows his authority over the abyss? Furthermore Jesus told us to be fishers of men...

Are we casting fishing line of the Gospel to save men from the abyss?

Those who share the Gospel should know that when the Gospel net is cast they bring up two forms of fish.

Matthew 13:48
Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.

This is a picture, delivered in allegory, of this reality:

2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

There are TWO parties in the net of the Gospel that are brought forth from the DEEP. One of those parties is meant to be discarded. Hopefully you can see which one that is.

It is the same principle that is shown here, again via allegory:

Matthew 22:10
So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

There are TWO parties in the net of the Gospel that are brought forth from the DEEP. One of those parties is meant to be discarded. Hopefully you can see which one that is.

It doesn't make sense that the bad fish are the one's that will deep fried.

 

[smaller]

It doesn't make sense that the bad fish are the one's that will deep fried.

I might suggest you missed the bad fish noted in 2 Cor. 4:4

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I might suggest you missed the bad fish noted in 2 Cor. 4:4

Actually, what I'm missing is what you're driving at.

 

[smaller]

Actually, what I'm missing is what you're driving at.

Sorry. Couldn't make it any clearer.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Sorry. Couldn't make it any clearer.

28 "Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather." (Matthew 24:28 NASB)

 

[Kathi]

Why not just take the meaning that God and the Bible intends?
First Matthew tells us "the boat was already a great distance from land,they were buffeted by waves because the wind was against it.During the fourth watch of night Jesus went out to them walking on the lake Matthew 14:24-25.
Mark tells us that when the disciples saw Jesus walking on the lake,they thought He was a ghost.They all cried out and were terrified Mark 6:48-50.
Doesn't Jesus always come to us in the storms of our lives?Can this be compared to Isaiah 43:2? Jesus waited until the boat was far from land when all their hope was gone.Jesus was testing the disciple's faith.
Why did Jesus walk on water?To show them that what they feared,the raging,fury of the storm was only a set of steps for them to come to Him.
Why did they not recognize Jesus? The disciples were not looking for Him.If they would have been waiting by faith they would have seen Him instantly.Instead they jumped to conclusions thinking He was a ghost.

It is always dangerous to give Scripture you own meaning.

 

[YosefHayim]

Why not just take the meaning that God and the Bible intends?
First Matthew tells us "the boat was already a great distance from land,they were buffeted by waves because the wind was against it.During the fourth watch of night Jesus went out to them walking on the lake Matthew 14:24-25.
Mark tells us that when the disciples saw Jesus walking on the lake,they thought He was a ghost.They all cried out and were terrified Mark 6:48-50.
Doesn't Jesus always come to us in the storms of our lives?Can this be compared to Isaiah 43:2? Jesus waited until the boat was far from land when all their hope was gone.Jesus was testing the disciple's faith.
Why did Jesus walk on water?To show them that what they feared,the raging,fury of the storm was only a set of steps for them to come to Him.
Why did they not recognize Jesus? The disciples were not looking for Him.If they would have been waiting by faith they would have seen Him instantly.Instead they jumped to conclusions thinking He was a ghost.

It is always dangerous to give Scripture you own meaning.

Yes it's dangerous to give scripture your own meaning.

The scriptures have layers of meanings of the same concrete message in one story. To say it was "To show them that what they feared,the raging,fury of the storm was only a set of steps for them to come to Him." is not stated in the text. It just says he walked on water, and that Peter sunk because of doubt.

The Gospel is about saving people from hell by grace through faith alone in Jesus Christ. What I saw was based solely on scripture: Jesus holds the keys to death. He defeated sin hell and death, thus he has authority. Jesus walked over the waters, over the abyss which could not harm him because of his authority. Satan temps us and tries us with stormy terrors like in Job. But in Christ he has no power over us (1 John 5:4-5). Peter doubted and the storm began to buffet him. But it could not completely pull him in because those Christ gains he can not lose. He is just to deliver the faithful, and is faithful when we are faithless. And we being fishers of men, are keeping people from being swallowed into the belly of the beast.

I'm not trying to pass this as true interpretation, but with cross referenced scripture it doesn't seem to change the message in any ways.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

...Peter sunk because of doubt.
[...]
Peter doubted and the storm began to buffet him. But it could not completely pull him in because those Christ gains he can not lose. He is just to deliver the faithful, and is faithful when we are faithless.

Had Peter not called out to Jesus and grasped his hand when he began to sink, that would be representative of the person who disowns Jesus and is thus disowned by Jesus. But this is not a story to illustrate how Jesus saves us from our sins, but rather a passage about Christ's sufficiency in daily obedient living.

What Peter lacked was not faith in God's salvation (he called out to Christ when he was sinking, not rejected him--saved people do that), but in Christ's power to uphold us in obedient works of the Spirit. The impossible and miraculous and unnatural thing he bids us onto the water to do are things like 'do good to your enemy', 'endure persecution', 'turn the other cheek', 'don't hold grudges'. Things that by nature are impossible for us to do. But if we believe that we can and keep our eyes focused on Christ we can and will do those things to the amazement of ourselves and others, but to the chagrin of the enemies of God.

The natural we are overcoming at the behest of Christ will always cause us to doubt and to fear being able to do those costly, dangerous, unnatural things, like love our enemies. But Christ is there to uphold and sustain us if we cry out to him and reach for the grasp of his sure hand.

 

[YosefHayim]

Had Peter not called out to Jesus and grasped his hand when he began to sink, that would be representative of the person who disowns Jesus and is thus disowned by Jesus. But this is not a story to illustrate how Jesus saves us from our sins, but rather a passage about Christ's sufficiency in daily obedient living.

What Peter lacked was not faith in God's salvation (he called out to Christ when he was sinking, not rejected him), but in Christ's power to uphold us in obedient works of the Spirit. The impossible and miraculous and unnatural thing he bids us onto the water to do are things like 'do good to your enemy', 'endure persecution', 'turn the other cheek', 'don't hold grudges'. Things that by nature are impossible for us to do. But if we believe and keep our eyes focused on Christ we can and will do those things to the amazement of ourselves and others, but to the chagrin of the enemies of God.

The natural we are overcoming at the behest of Christ will always cause us to doubt and to fear being able to do those costly, dangerous, unnatural things, like love our enemies. But Christ is there to uphold and sustain us if we cry out to him and reach for the grasp of his sure hand.

But there's nothing to suggest disowning considering he called to Jesus beforehand (if it is you, bid me to walk on the water), and had he not had faith he would not call for his help.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

But there's nothing to suggest disowning considering he called to Jesus beforehand (if it is you, bid me to walk on the water), and had he not had faith he would not call for his help.

Exactly!

You seem to be trying to make it a OSAS passage. But the argument of non-OSAS is that the person has to continue in the faith that saved him to continue to be saved by Christ. Peter demonstrates the continuance of this faith by reaching out to him when he began to fail in the miraculous. People with faith in Christ do that, not people who don't have faith in Christ. If you want to make it a passage about salvation then the passage is showing us that Peter still has faith in Christ and is, therefore, delivered by Christ in his time of doubt, not turned away. His continuing but weak faith in Christ being the reason Christ sustains him.

But like I say, this is a passage about believers responding to the call of Christ to walk in the unnatural obediences--humanly speaking--of the Spirit (love for enemies, not holding grudges, forgiving others, etc...).

Remember the parable of the mulberry bush, and the mountain? Same truth being taught.

 

[YosefHayim]

Exactly!

You seem to be trying to make it a OSAS passage. But the argument of non-OSAS is that the person has to continue in the faith that saved him to continue to be saved by Christ. Peter demonstrates the continuance of this faith by reaching out to him when he began to fail in the miraculous. People with faith in Christ do that, not people who don't have faith in Christ. If you want to make it a passage about salvation then the passage is showing us that Peter still has faith in Christ and is, therefore, delivered by Christ in his time of doubt, not turned away. His continuing but weak faith in Christ being the reason Christ sustains him.

But like I say, this is a passage about believers responding to the call of Christ to walk in the unnatural obediences--humanly speaking--of the Spirit (love for enemies, not holding grudges, forgiving others, etc...).

Remember the parable of the mulberry bush, and the mountain? Same truth being taught.

But you can't continue in faith without Christ. It's the flesh that fails, and the Spirit that prevails. non-OSAS is subtly works salvation. It is Satan and his forces that try to bring people to hell with him. Satan tries to cause Christians to lose faith that they may perish. His afflictions might make us stumble, but they can not take us over completely. It is God that keeps us, and lifts us up. Peter did not lift himself up, but Christ did.

 

[Karl]

I watch a guy on YouTube called Round SaturnsEye. He tends to be hyper-eisegetical. It seems he does wordplay with life. I find him entertaining. However there are things that he says that makes me think.

Recently I watched a video, read some comments, and had some thoughts. Let's take a look when Jesus healed a man which was possessed with a legion of devils in Luke 8.

And they besought him that he would not command them to go out into the deep. Luke 8:31
​

The word for the deep in the Greek is abysson [Strong's G12]. They ask not to be sent to a distant place, the abyss. In revelation we see the beast is thrown into the abyss.

The root word of the Greek abysson is bythos

From ἄλφα (G1) (as a negative particle) and a variation of βυθός (G1037)
​

So could that mean that Jesus walking on the waters shows his authority over the abyss? Furthermore Jesus told us to be fishers of men...

Are we casting fishing line of the Gospel to save men from the abyss?

We find that Jude tells us the angels that kept not their first estate are being held chained in darkness until the day of Judgement Jude 1:6, Peter tells us where that place is, Hell, Strong's #G5020 in the center of the earth 2 Peter 2:4, Luke tells us Sheol, the abode of the dead is a place of torment Luke 16:23 and we also learn that angels carry the soul and spirit of men to it Luke 16:22, so we can conclude that the demons can go too and look into the place where the fallen angels are being held and see their torment, we read in Matthew's account the demon asked Jesus if He was going to torment them before it was the appointed time of judgement, I hope that explains the reason of the demon's question.

Jesus walked on water because He is God the Creator, so yes He does have authority over all of His creation, but the story is about the faith of the fishermen, He told them let us go over to the other side, that is a Divine command, it shows us even though we don't see Jesus in the storms of our lives He is always there with us.

Fishers of men, the first time Jesus told Peter to cast his net we find the net broke and some were lost Luke 5:6, the second time Jesus instructs Peter to cast his net we are told the net didn't break and the actual number of fish in the net was153 John 21:11. The first instance is to show the gospel is announced to everyone, some will believe and some will not, the second instance teaches us that those that are the elect, before the foundation of the world, will be caught, ..receive the Gospel and receive salvation, for us that means we are to preach the Gospel in season and out, but to be ever on the lookout for the 153rd fish, God has a number, being omniscient He knows how many are the elect and when that last one will come into the Kingdom, when the last person to accept Christ as Lord and Savior comes in we're outta here, it's finished, ...we go home to be with our Lord.

Here's the other side of that story, satan doesn't know how many, so every time he hears the Angels of Heaven rejoicing over another saved person Luke 15:10 he becomes nervous because he knows his end is near, ...that's cool, him being constantly nervous!