Gaps in prophecies

[Vic C.]

This is a continuation of a subject from another thread.

Is there really a gap in the timeline of Daniel's prophecy, specifically in this passage? Isaiah 9:24-27 Are there gaps in other prophecies? One that really struck me was brought to my attention.

In the book of Luke, we read Jesus quoting a Messianic prophecy from Isaiah:

Luke 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
Luke 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
Luke 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Luke 4:20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
Luke 4:21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

Jesus indicates the Isaiah Scripture is fulfilled. (at least part of it) Does this mean all of Isaiah's prophecy came to pass? NO! There is much more to the prophecy, but Jesus doesn't read all of it because He can't. He doesn't because the rest of the prophecy concerning Him is to come to pass sometime in the future. Imagine that; there is a "GAP" in Isaiah's prophecy.

(black bold is what Jesus read, blue bold is in the future)

Isa 61:1 The spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
Isa 61:2a- To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD,
(GAP)
b-and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;
Isa 61:3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.
Isa 61:4 And they shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations, and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations.
Isa 61:5 And strangers shall stand and feed your flocks, and the sons of the alien shall be your plowmen and your vinedressers.
Isa 61:6 But ye shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves.
Isa 61:7 For your shame ye shall have double; and for confusion they shall rejoice in their portion: therefore in their land they shall possess the double: everlasting joy shall be unto them.

Everything from 61:2b describes future events.

Here is a excerpt from the site that brought this to my attention:

You may be wondering about the last seven years, the 70th week. Some believe the 70th week is history; others believe it is still in the future and will start when the Antichrist makes or negotiates some kind of peace settlement in the Middle East. In the middle of this last seven years, he will stop Israel from making sacrifices and will try to destroy those who do not worship him.

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week [the 70th week]: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate (Dan. 9:27).

I believe “the covenant†will be confirmed by the “the son of perdition†(2 Thessalonians 2:3). The word perdition is another word for hell. Verse 4 says he will exalt “himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.†Isaiah calls this a “covenant with death, and with hell.â€Â

But God tells Israel, “Your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand . . . ye shall be trodden down by it†(Isa. 28:15,l8).

Summing up Daniel 9:24-27, God marked a time of 490 years and there is a gap between the 69th and 70th week. When Israel rejected and crucified their Messiah, God, in a sense, suspended dealing with Israel and turned to the Gentiles, and the church age fits between the 69th and 70th week.

God could have told Gabriel to tell Daniel to simply say 490 years, and made it all plainer. But He chose to make it a little vague. Israel to this day can’t see what it all means.

http://www.asis.com/~stag/gapthery.html

It a little tought to read... dark red text on a black background, ugh. It's fairly short though.

 

[JM]

and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;
Isa 61:3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.
Isa 61:4 And they shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations, and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations.
Isa 61:5 And strangers shall stand and feed your flocks, and the sons of the alien shall be your plowmen and your vinedressers.
Isa 61:6 But ye shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves.
Isa 61:7 For your shame ye shall have double; and for confusion they shall rejoice in their portion: therefore in their land they shall possess the double: everlasting joy shall be unto them.

Vic, you know this isn't my strong area, but didn't most of the already happen in A.D. 70?

(On the Significance of A.D.70)
"We conclude that the day of visitation refers partly to the incarnation. This event brought a double-edged crisis. Jesus’ earthly ministry brought the gracious presence of God’s redemption to those who received him, but set the stage for a soon-to-occur visitation of wrath and judgment to Jerusalem and the impenitent children of Israel." (R.C. Sproul on Luke 19:43-44 , The Last Days According To Jesus, p.81)

"The most significant, redemptive, historical action that takes place outside the New Testament, is the judgment that falls on Jerusalem, and by which judgment the Christian Church now emerges as The Body of Christ." (R.C. Sproul, Dust to Glory video series, 1997)

 

[Vic C.]

I will concede and say maybe some of it was, but did all of it occur? In my understanding of prophecy, it isn't totally fulfilled until all of it has come to pass. Even if it did come to pass by 70 A.D., (i believe it hasn't) that still leaves a gap of time between Jesus' Earthly ministry and the time of Roman destruction, which is the purpose of my OP... to show "gaps" in other prophecies as well as Daniel's.

... but now that you have brought it up... :-D I'd like to say, I don't really understand what Sproul is trying to say. It sounds to me like he is referring to judgement and destruction brought to Jerusalem by Rome. I agree. He then mentions this:

"The most significant, redemptive, historical action that takes place outside the New Testament, is the judgment that falls on Jerusalem, and by which judgment the Christian Church now emerges as The Body of Christ."

Not sure if I agree with that. I am inclined to say this happened some thirty-something years prior to the Diaspora. :wink: Besides, the Isaiah passage is about the state and fate of Israel, correct?

Isaiah tells us of not only wrath and vengeance, but of reconcilation and restoration of His Chosen Ones. Yes, the Temple was laid to waste in 70 AD, but was it also restored yet? I am reading the verses in blue over and over and am convinced not much of it at all applies to 70 AD. I see NO indication whatsoever that any form of restoration and reconcilation came to Israel in 70 AD... just the opposite. Look at them now, they still don't accept Messiah.

Hey, maybe the gap is between my ears, heh? LOL

 

[Vic C.]

I found this while eating lunch:

http://www.enduringword.com/commentaries/2361.htm

Just for the fun of it, an excerpt:

2. (1b-3) The ministry of the Messiah.

To preach good tidings to the poor; He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to those who are bound; to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all who mourn, to console those who mourn in Zion, to give them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they may be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord, that He may be glorified.

a. The Messiah announces that He is here to heal the damage that sin brings. Sin has done great damage, so there needs to be a great work of redemption.

b. Because sin impoverishes, He will preach good tidings to the poor. Because sin breaks hearts, He will heal the brokenhearted. Because sin makes captives, He will proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to those who are bound. Because sin oppresses, He will proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord.

c. Because sin is a crime that must be avenged, He will proclaim . . . the day of vengeance of our God.

i. Significantly, Jesus stopped reading before this sentence. He stopped in the middle of the prophecy, because to proclaim . . . the day of vengeance of our God is relevant to His Second Coming, not to His first coming. The comma in year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance has stood for almost 2,000 years. This shows us something of the nature of Biblical prophecy: it may “shift gears†and time frames quickly, and without warning.

Isa 61:2- To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

 

[Quasar]

The Difference between the Rapture and 2nd Coming of Christ

Hi friends,

ABOUT ISRAEL FIRST:

There are many Christians who do not believe in the pre-tribulation rapture of the Church the Bible teaches, because they have been taught that the Church has replaced Israel and now call it the "True Israel of God."
It is also known as the "Replacement Theory," Neither of them come from the teachings of the Scriptures and are in gross error of the truth, and was the cause for the awful Crusades of the middle ages. It is therefore understandable why they do not believe in the rapture of the Church, because they know Israel goes through the tribulation and think it is the Church - which it isn't.

Much of the basis for the teachings of the "Replacement Theory," comes from the teachings of the apostle Paul in Romans 11:11-27, in his writings about believers all being grafted into the "natural tree." What Paul meant, was that all believers are grafted into God's chosen people, whether Jew or Gentile - not grafted into Israel!

From the time of Jesus death, resurrection and ascension, all who believe in Him are reconciled to God, Rom.5:10-11, and become His children. Which is precisely what Paul meant by being "grafted into the natural tree/branch/root." "The Israel of God" [Gal,6:16], meant all Israelites who believed in Jesus during His ministry, [Which was: "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel," Mt.15:24], were the first of all, to found the Church of Jesus Christ, beginning with His disciples. These are the ones Paul referred to as the "Israel of God."


From the first indication in the Scriptures that Israel would go through the tribulation, first mentioned in Jer.30:7, where it is referred to as Jacob's Trouble. And greatly amplified in Dan.9:24-27, where God decreed 70 Weeks of years upon the remaining destiny of Israel for this entire age. 69 Weeks of years have already been fulfilled with the 70th and final Week [7 years] still to be fulfilled, which is also known as the 7 years of tribulation.

This 7 years of tribulation yet to come, will be triggered by the Antichrist, who will make a treaty of peace with Israel for one Week [7 years], Dan.9:27, reinforced by the apostle Paul in 2 Thes.2:3-4 and 8.

Jesus gives a thorough narrative of Jacob's Trouble, the tribulation, in teachings to His disciples in Mt.24:3-31, and mentions the "abomination that causes desolation," who is the Antichrist mentioned in Dan.9:27, in Mt.24:15. The same scenario is found in Mk.13:3-27 and Lk.21:7-28. All of these teachings have reference to Israel who will go through the 70th and final Week of God's decree placed upon them, the tribulation, and has nothing whatsoever to do with the Church of Jesus Christ. These narratives all refer to Jesus SECOND COMING to the earth, in Mt.24:29-31.

Jesus ministries during His First Advent to the earth was to Israel only, as He testified in Mt.10:5-6 and 15:24. His teachings are for the Church as well, which did not exist until Pentecost, but His ministry at the time was specifically for Israel.

ABOUT THE CHURCH:

Everyone, whether Jew or Gentile, regardless of nationality or the language they speak - become members of the Church of Jesus Christ the moment they receive Him as Lord and Savior. THEY ARE NOT "GRAFTED INTO ISRAEL." All believers become one, in the Body of Christ through the One Spirit 1 Cor.12:12-13, His Church, not Israel.

Jesus said He has two sheep folds: "I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one Shepherd." Jn.10:16. The first sheep fold He was ministering to is Israel and the other one He will bring also, is His Church - two very separate entities. In this one profound sentence, Jesus prophecied, the two sheep folds will become one, and will have but one Shepherd. This prophecy will not be fulfilled until Israel recognizes Jesus as their Messiah [Zech.12:10 and 14:4-5], and then the two sheep folds will become one, the Church and Israel, when Jesus sets up His kingdom on earth, Rev.20:6.

There are some who attempt to interpret the two sheep folds of Jn.10:16 as Judah and Israel [The so called ten lost tribes of Israel]. Jesus confirmed the fact, during His ministry, there were no ten lost tribes of Israel and address them all as Israel in a number of places. This is another subject which I will not get into further on this thread].

ABOUT THE RAPTURE:

Jesus also made the following statement: "But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first." Mt.19:30. Those He referred to as being first, is Israel. who will be last - and those who are last, who will be first, is His Church, as the Church will be raptured before the tribulation begins, Jn.14:1-4 and 28 and again in 1 Thes.4:14-18 and 2 Thes.2:1-8.


Jesus taught us THERE WILL BE A RAPTURE of all who belong to Him in Jn.14:1-4 and 28, telling us He was going to His Father's house where there are many mansions, where He went to prepare a place for us. Then He will return for us to take us with Him, that we may be with Him, to our Father in heaven, vs 28.

The apostle Paul amplified on what Jesus taught, first of all by stating that it was by the word of the Lord, in 1 Thes.4:14-18, where all of us who belong to Christ, dead or alive, meet Him in the clouds of the sky, where we go with Jesus to be with Him in heaven forever, as in Jn.14:28.

Then Paul reveals WHEN THE RAPTURE WILL TAKE PLACE, in 2 Thes.2:3-8, just prior to when the Antichrist is revealed, who will then kick off the 7 years of tribulation prophecied by Daniel in 9:27. Paul said the Day of the Lord [The tribulation] will not come until the departure [Of the Church], and the man of lawlessness is revealed in 2 Thes.2:3 [The Antichrist], and in vs 7-8, when the restrainer is taken out of the way [The Church] the lawless one [The Antichrist] will be revealed.

Jesus stated He would spare His Church from the "hour of testing," in Rev.3:10, meaning that He would keep His Church from going through the tribulation. Later, in Rev.4:1-2 using the apostle John as a symbol to represent the Church, who is called into heaven by a voice sounding like a trumpet.

The Church is not referred to in Revelation again until the wedding of the Bride [The Church] and the Lamb [Jesus], in Rev.19:7-8. Shortly thereafter, Jesus is seen returning in His SECOND COMING to the earth, with His Church following Him on white horses, dressed in fine linen, the sign of the righteous acts of the saints, [Rev.19:8], in Rev.19:14 and in Zech.14:4-5 and Jude 14.

WITH THE CHURCH RAPTURED - WHAT THEN?

When the Church has been raptured and all believers have met Jesus in the clouds of the sky and returned to heaven with Him [Jn.14:28], there is no one to preach the Gospel to Israel and to all those who were left behind to go through the tribulation. So God sends 144,000 from 12 of the tribes of Israel, whom He redeems from the earth [Rev.14:3] and seals against death or injury, at the hands of the Antichrist and his followers, to preach the Gospel, in the absence of the raptured Church [Rev;7:1-8].

An overview of the efforts of the 144,000 evangelists during the entire tribulation period is revealed in the Parenthetic scene of all who will be saved during the tribulation, in Rev.7:9-17. Neither the 144,000 or the 'saints' who are saved out of the tribulation belong to the Church, who will be raptured before the tribulation began.

When their work has been finished, the 144,000 are translated to heaven [Rev.14:1-5], and once again there is no one left on the earth to preach the Gospel, with both the Church and the 144,000 in heaven. So God commissions an angel to do so [Rev.14:6-7].

ABOUT THE FIRST RESURRECTION:

After Jesus Second Coming to the earth from heaven, with His Church following Him on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean [Rev.19:14, Zech.14:4-5 and Jude 14], He ends the battle of Armageddon, defeats the Antichrist, the false prophet [and his allies, the ten nation confederation, Rev.17:12] and throws them into the lake of fire [Rev.19:20] .

Satan is caught, chained and thrown into the Abyss and sealed for 1,000 years [Rev.20:1-3].

The first resurrection takes place - that consists of all the martyrs who will be saved out of the tribulation, that were previously viewed earlier in Rev.7:9-17, when the event takes place in the chronological order of events [Rev.20:4-6].

There are many who believe the Church is among those who will participate in the first resurrection, but that is not the case at all since it can be seen from the Scriptures, the Church was raptured and with the Lord in heaven during the entire tribulation. Then the bride [The Church] attends the wedding to the Lamb [Rev.19:7-8], and the Church returns with the Lord at His Second Coming to the earth [Rev.19:14].

JESUS KINGDOM ON EARTH:

After the first resurrection takes place, Jesus establishes His Millennial Kingdom here on the earth for 1,000 years. It is at this point, yet to come, when Israel, the Church and the 144,000 all fulfill Jesus prophecy in Jn.10:16, and become one sheep fold with one Shepherd [Rev.20:6].

IN SUMMARY:

Therefore, it should be abundantly clear, there is no place for the Church in the Scriptures when the Day of the Lord occurs, except to be raptured, and then to return with the Lord Jesus approximately seven years later in His Second Advent to the earth.

In His love,

Quasar



"I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." Jn.14:6.

 

[Vic C.]

Welcome Quasar and we thank you for chiming in. BTW, I deleted your two extra posts. The Board is running a little slow these days when submitting a post, so bear with us and hit the submit button only once. If it hangs up after 30-40 seconds, just backspace and refresh browser and post should be there.

Suggestion to all who submit big posts… Copy and paste into a text editor in case post is lost during submission.

… There are many Christians who do not believe in the pre-tribulation rapture of the Church the Bible teaches, because they have been taught that the Church has replaced Israel and now call it the "True Israel of God." It is also known as the "Replacement Theory," Neither of them come from the teachings of the Scriptures and are in gross error of the truth, and was the cause for the awful Crusades of the middle ages. It is therefore understandable why they do not believe in the rapture of the Church, because they know Israel goes through the tribulation and think it is the Church - which it isn't.

Much of the basis for the teachings of the "Replacement Theory," comes from the teachings of the apostle Paul in Romans 11:11-27, in his writings about believers all being grafted into the "natural tree." What Paul meant, was that all believers are grafted into God's chosen people, whether Jew or Gentile - not grafted into Israel!

I neither believe in a pretrib rapture nor the Replacement theory. It is because of what Paul teaches, as you pointed out, that I don’t subscribe to any Replacement at all. This is why I believe we also go through the GT, but where I see separation is where we ( NT saints) are promised NO WRATH. (as stated in 1 Thessalonians 5:9)

From the first indication in the Scriptures that Israel would go through the tribulation, first mentioned in Jer.30:7, where it is referred to as Jacob's Trouble. And greatly amplified in Dan.9:24-27, where God decreed 70 Weeks of years upon the remaining destiny of Israel for this entire age. 69 Weeks of years have already been fulfilled with the 70th and final Week [7 years] still to be fulfilled, which is also known as the 7 years of tribulation.

Glad you see the Gap also, which is the basis of this Thread… to show a gap in Daniel as well as other prophecies. I do not, form a Scriptural point of view, see the entire 70th. Week as Tribulation, in light of the belief some sort of covenant or treaty. I just don’t see Tribulation in the first half of the “weekâ€Â. Persecution AND peace at the same time? It’s got to be one or the other.

Jesus said He has two sheep folds: "I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one Shepherd." Jn.10:16. The first sheep fold He was ministering to is Israel and the other one He will bring also, is His Church - two very separate entities. In this one profound sentence, Jesus prophecied, the two sheep folds will become one, and will have but one Shepherd.

Hey, glad you brought this up. Because of a mistranslation in the KJB, errors are subject to crop up. KJ says:

John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

It should read:

John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one flock, and one shepherd.

The second “fold†really translate to “flockâ€Â.

There are some who attempt to interpret the two sheep folds of Jn.10:16 as Judah and Israel [The so called ten lost tribes of Israel]. Jesus confirmed the fact, during His ministry, there were no ten lost tribes of Israel and address them all as Israel in a number of places. This is another subject which I will not get into further on this thread].

This would be a great subject for another Thread though.

Then Paul reveals WHEN THE RAPTURE WILL TAKE PLACE, in 2 Thes.2:3-8, just prior to when the Antichrist is revealed, who will then kick off the 7 years of tribulation prophecied by Daniel in 9:27. Paul said the Day of the Lord [The tribulation] will not come until the departure [Of the Church], and the man of lawlessness is revealed in 2 Thes.2:3 [The Antichrist], and in vs 7-8, when the restrainer is taken out of the way [The Church] the lawless one [The Antichrist] will be revealed.

Sorry, Scripture says no such thing. Daniel, Jesus, Paul and John all place the revealing of antichrist midway in this 70th. Week. The Day of the Lord and the Tribulation are two separate events, not one in the same. Revelation 12 and other passages allude to that. Paul states that the revealing of antichrist can’t take place until the falling away (apostasy) of the church, then the revealing and persecutions, then God’s Wrath.

We can hash this out in another Thread. This is where I see Pre Tribulation misinterpreting and distorting prophetic timelines to support the theory.

Jesus stated He would spare His Church from the "hour of testing," in Rev.3:10, meaning that He would keep His Church from going through the tribulation.

No, Jesus promised this to the Church of Philadelphia, The Faithful Church. This is not all-inclusive.

Later, in Rev.4:1-2 using the apostle John as a symbol to represent the Church, who is called into heaven by a voice sounding like a trumpet.

This is also debatable. One cannot come to this conclusion unless they turn to speculation and abandon a literal reading.

The Church is not referred to in Revelation again until the wedding of the Bride [The Church] and the Lamb [Jesus], in Rev.19:7-8. Shortly thereafter, Jesus is seen returning in His SECOND COMING to the earth, with His Church following Him on white horses, dressed in fine linen, the sign of the righteous acts of the saints, [Rev.19:8], in Rev.19:14 and in Zech.14:4-5 and Jude 14.

I believe Scriptures teaches the Bride to be “Israel†with the Ekklesia being The Body. Remember the two folds thingy?


Oh, I had no plans on derailing my own thread. LOL It just that I see NO Scriptural support for a rapture prior to the final Danel “weekâ€Â.

I propose we gat back to discovering if there are really gaps in Prophecy.

 

[Quasar]

Thanks for deleting the extra posts od mine, Vic, I appreciate it. I post on six different sites from time to time and they're all a little different unless the host is ezboard, where they are of course, the same.

In a subject covering prophecy, where there is more often times than not, confusion running rampant, it will overlap with other subjects in order to better clarify the primary.

Thank you for the welcome and I will get back to you another time re some of the points you raised. Incidentally, I'm not rally a 'rookie,' but rather spent six years as a forums administrator at another Christian web site [Not with the same nick] until resigning to let younger people take over. I'm a WW2 Vet, with two years in the Pacific Theater with the Army Air Corp. Also studied at two seminaries with two degrees in Christian history, theology andn prophecy.

Blessings,

Quasar

 

[Vic C.]

Thanks for the intro. Looking forward to talking again. I know, we all stray from the topic from time to time. BTW, do you know of any other prophecies that may have gaps in them?

Peace,
Vic

 

[JM]

Vic, it's interesting that you bring up a thread like this. The premil dispey agrees 100%.

 

[Vic C.]

Vic, it's interesting that you bring up a thread like this. The premil dispey agrees 100%.

Except for the pre wrath stuff, heh? :wink:

I see gaps in two prophcies so far. Any more?

 

[Quasar]

Vic, it's interesting that you bring up a thread like this. The premil dispey agrees 100%.

Except for the pre wrath stuff, heh? :wink:

I see gaps in two prophcies so far. Any more?

Greetings Vic,

The following covers a variety of gaps in prophecy you might find of interest:


The Bible itself interprets some of its recorded prophecies as having two applications. For example, Joel 2 is referred to in Acts 2:17 "this is what was spoken by Joel". Yet this incident did not completely fulfill Joel 2. We could also look at Matt 17:10-13 Elijah does come (future) - but I tell you that Elijah has already come (current or recent past).

The clue for all this seems to be that although there is a definite divine inspired interpretation in the first century, all aspects of the prophecy are not met therefore there must be another more complete fulfillment in the future. Some of the prophecies that have a gap are: Dan 7, Dan 11, Dan 9, Deut 28, and Lev 26.

Bible history is in relation to Israel. In general Bible is silent about the periods of Jewish dispersion with a few exceptions such as Deut 28 where conditions of the dispersion are briefly described, or in Jeremiah where they are told to settle down in Babylon. Other than these, Bible history stops when the Jews leave Israel and resumes when they return. Bible prophecies have not been available during this "gap" period. For the most part up until a few centuries ago the Bible has been under lock and key, not available to the general population of the earth.

There is also the possibility of a prophecy applying to the day that the prophet lived as well as the last days. Most of Joel seems to have a primary application to that day with a few exceptions like Joel 2:28-3:3. How do we know who the "northerner" is in Joel 1:20? In Joel's day it applied to the Assyrians, we also speak of the latter day Assyrian who is sometimes referred to as a northerner this time the rest of Joel 2 will be fulfilled.

There are similarities between the Exodus from Egypt and the one to come. God uses and reuses the same patterns constantly. The problem is how far we can take the details and expect them to be mirrored in the future. The problem is in ascertaining principles and trends, and eventual outcomes.

Some prophecy has future application because it says so, for example in 2 Sam 7 "thou hast shown me future generations." Some times there will be obvious indications in the text such as Dan 12 "the time of the end" or in Joel "the last days". Some are future simply because they have not happened yet, see Acts 7 "Abraham has not yet inherited the land."

Daniel was given visions that as it was stated were sealed or could not be understood until the time of the end. There are time gaps in Daniel's visions. For example, Dan 7, 9 & 11 and Deut 28 and Lev 26 have continuos prophecy with a time gap and applications to what has happened in the past and to the future.

Since many prophecies found in the Bible have multiple applications, understanding of prophecy requires allowing for multiple applications. The following are some examples:

We can read in Luke 4:14-24 where Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee. He taught in their Synagogues. When he went to the synagogue in Nazareth on the sabbath day, he was invited to read from the book of Isaiah. He found Isa 61:1 and read: "The Spirit of the Lord [is] upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord." Notice that the Lord stopped at the comma as it was not then, the appointed time for vengeance even though the Jews longed for it.

When Jesus Christ read from the Isaiah scroll in chapter 61, he had to stop at the comma as his comment on what he read was "Today this verse is fulfilled in your ears. The day of vengeance of our God was not to be fulfilled until a day in our near future.

The example from Isa 61:1-2 is fairly easy to understand, the following one from Dan 12:1-2 is a little harder to understand: "And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation [even] to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame [and] everlasting contempt.

The second Advent has a time of trouble worse than any unto it. Yet Rev 20:4-6 tells of this time and that those who take part in this first resurrection will not experience the second death. Since they are not to experience the shame and everlasting contempt associated with the second death, this part of Dan 12:1-2 must wait until the end of the 1000 years to be fulfilled.

Rev 20:5 tells us that the second resurrection will occur at the end of the 1000 years for the rest of the dead. This would include both those not raised in the first resurrection and those who die during the 1000 years. Then in Rev 20:10-15 there is the general resurrection with all of them judged out of the things written in the books according to their works. Many view this judgment to occur when Christ returns at the start of the 1000 years but this is not what Rev 20 is saying.

The next example from Jer 25 is a little harder to understand, as it points to a dual application of the book of Revelation: Isa 63:1 "Who [is] this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this [that is] glorious in his apparel, traveling in the greatness of his strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save." Isa 63:1 can be identified as applying to the start of the 1000 years, while the Jews living in the days that Jesus walked the earth, preferred to see it fulfilled at that time. The words in Isa 63 can, and likely do also apply at the end of the 1000 years when Jesus Christ will put down the Satan led rebellion to his reign.

In Isa 63:2 we find red garments like him that treads in the winepress. This relates to Jer 25:30 "he shall give a shout, as they that tread the grapes". This relates to Ezek 38:18 "at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, [that] my fury shall come up in my face." This relates to Jer 25:31 "for the LORD hath a controversy with the nations, he will plead with all flesh; he will give them [that are] wicked to the sword, saith the LORD."

This is related to Isa 63:4 "For the day of vengeance [is] in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come." This is related to Ezek 38:2-4 "And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army". This is related to Jer 25:32 "evil shall go forth from nation to nation".

While this all is usually related to the great battle at the start of the 1000 years, it can also be related to Rev 20:7 " And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison," and Rev 20:8 "And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom [is] as the sand of the sea."

This in turn is related to Isa 63:3 I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people [there was] none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment"

This will also occur in Rev 20:9 "And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."

So that Jer 25:33 "And the slain of the LORD shall be at that day from [one] end of the earth even unto the [other] end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground."

The portion of Jer 25:33 "they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground." Can only apply to the end of the 1000 years as it is the time of judgment and the only ones around are angels who not bury them but rather gather them for the judgment.

We know that Jer 25:33 can not be completely fulfilled at the start of the 1000 years as we read in Ezek 39:11 "And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the [noses] of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call [it] The valley of Hamongog."

We also have Zech 14:16 "And it shall come to pass, [that] every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles." So there are some survivors at the start of the 1000 years. Thus the complete fulfillment of Jer 25:33 will have to wait for the end of the 1000 years.


Rev 20 suggests that we need to re-examine interpretation of Bible prophecy. In Rev 20:8, it seems strange to read their number described as being as the sand of the sea after 1000 years of the Kingdom of Christ, yet we read that it is to happen. Is it too much to expect that there may be an application of the book of Revelation connected with so large an army in opposition to Christ's rule on earth?

Blessings,

Quasar

 

[Vic C.]

Thanks Quasar, you just helped strenghtened my case, which was that it is entirely possible for there to be a Gap in Daniel 9.

Vic

 

[Quasar]

My pleasure, Vic! When you have mirrored what the Scriptures teach us, you can't miss, and puts us on the very same page.

Ten four!

Blessings,

Quasar

 

[I Reckon Sow]

In the book of Luke, we read Jesus quoting a Messianic prophecy from Isaiah:

Luke 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
Luke 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
Luke 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Luke 4:20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
Luke 4:21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

Jesus indicates the Isaiah Scripture is fulfilled. (at least part of it) Does this mean all of Isaiah's prophecy came to pass? NO! There is much more to the prophecy, but Jesus doesn't read all of it because He can't. He doesn't because the rest of the prophecy concerning Him is to come to pass sometime in the future. Imagine that; there is a "GAP" in Isaiah's prophecy.

(black bold is what Jesus read, blue bold is in the future)

Isa 61:1 The spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
Isa 61:2a- To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD,
(GAP)
b-and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;
Isa 61:3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.
Isa 61:4 And they shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations, and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations.
Isa 61:5 And strangers shall stand and feed your flocks, and the sons of the alien shall be your plowmen and your vinedressers.
Isa 61:6 But ye shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves.
Isa 61:7 For your shame ye shall have double; and for confusion they shall rejoice in their portion: therefore in their land they shall possess the double: everlasting joy shall be unto them.

Everything from 61:2b describes future events.

Yes Vic
There is a gap from the time Jesus preaches about the "Day of the Lord" (The Kingdom of God) till when it arrives. But i really dont look at it as a gap, as much as i look at it as as a prophecy. Luke 4-19 is fulfilled in that Jesus PREACHES about that day and in Isaiah that day is explained but its not like the prophecy in Daniel where a specific amount of time is mentioned.

 

[Vic C.]

Yes Vic
There is a gap from the time Jesus preaches about the "Day of the Lord" (The Kingdom of God) till when it arrives. But i really dont look at it as a gap, as much as i look at it as as a prophecy. Luke 4-19 is fulfilled in that Jesus PREACHES about that day and in Isaiah that day is explained but its not like the prophecy in Daniel where a specific amount of time is mentioned.

Hello,

Yes, I considered this too. Though when I read Daniel 9, I read of a specific amount of time too, but I don't see a specific contiguous timeframe mentioned. Actually, what I read is that Daniel break it up in two, even three timeframes.

Daniel 9:25 talks about a seven year period:

Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

Then there is a 62 week period in the same verse:

Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

Finally, we have the 70th. week:

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The seven and 62 weeks are combined because the context of the verse alludes to them being two time periods within the same timeframe. Meaning; this is the time when Mesaiah is ushered in and then cut off. There doesn't seem to be a specific timeframe to verse 26. It may very well be a type of near/far prophecy. It cound be referring to the time of Christ up to the Diaspora, then jumps ahead to a even more future event.

Verse 27 seems to "cut" into the timeframe between the first and second half of verse 26

Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

This is where I see the 70th. week.

No indication that the week in 9:27 immediately follows timeframes in verse 25.

 

[JM]

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Isn't Daniel praying for Israel and God responds with "...he shall confirm a covenant..." Isn't the he Christ that is confirming the covenant? That would be a literal, face value reading...wouldn't it?

 

[Quasar]

Thread subject

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Isn't Daniel praying for Israel and God responds with "...he shall confirm a covenant..." Isn't the he Christ that is confirming the covenant? That would be a literal, face value reading...wouldn't it?

The "he" in Dan.9:27, who is the same person mentioned twice in the same verse is the Antichrist who is also the very first rider on the white horse, in Rev.6:1-2 who triggers the 70th and final "week" of Daniel, the seven years of tribulation. Which is divided into to parts, a first half of 3.5 years of peace, and the final half of 3.5 years, called the Great Tribulation, when the Antichrist breaks his covenant with Israel and sets up an abomination of Desolation in the temple of God. Also mentioned by Jesus in Mt.24:15.

The action of the person in Dan.9:27 is a prophecy that not only takes place during Jesus absence, and could not possibly be Him, nor would Jesus appear, to confront the Antichrist and defeat him, as seen in Rev.19:20, until at the end of the tribulation, while the Antichrist is the person who starts it. As seen in the first"he" of Dan.9:27.

Blessings,

Quasar

 

[Vic C.]

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Isn't Daniel praying for Israel and God responds with "...he shall confirm a covenant..." Isn't the he Christ that is confirming the covenant? That would be a literal, face value reading...wouldn't it?

I don't see it that way. There is no real reason to assume the two he's are two different people. The 'he" in Daniel is Antiochus. One much realize that this is a twofold prophecy. Jesus is the One who extended this prophecy.

Jesus said this:

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

It happened in the past (I will get to that in a moment) and it will happen again. Notice Jesus only mentions the second half of the prophecy. (I often wonder why)

Lets look at this:

Things nevertheless are more precise with the last week, which constitutes a period of intense tribulations, wars, and persecutions (Dan 9:26-27): according to 1 Macc 1:20, the persecutions began in 169 during the first campaign of Antiochus against Egypt, preceding the murder of the high priest Onias (2 Macc 3:1; 4:34) according to "and after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off..." (Dan 9:26). Antiochus erected "the disastrous abomination" (1 Macc 1:54; Dan 9:27; Mt 24:15) in December 167, an altar of the pagan religion, inside the temple on the altar of the holocausts.

Antiochus died in October 164, after which the persecutions ceased. But the war still continued until 163/2. The final week therefore effectively lasted almost seven years. And the disastrous abomination was consequently constructed, according to the prediction of Daniel 9:27, nearly in the middle of the seven-year period. So we state that the resemblance of the proportions 70 / 366 / 6 of real history with the theoretical proportions 49 / 434 / 7 of the seventy weeks is well observable1.

http://www.geocities.com/ulrich_utiger/daniel.html

You can look up the Maccabees verses here.

http://www.biblicalproportions.com/modu ... Maccabees/

http://www.biblicalproportions.com/modu ... Maccabees/

Antiochus, as you probably know, is the OT's prototype antichrist.

Here is the covenant:

1 Maccabees 1:11 In those days went there out of Israel wicked men, who persuaded many, saying, Let us go and make a covenant with the heathen that are round about us: for since we departed from them we have had much sorrow.

Here is the A of D:

1 Maccabees 1:54 Now the fifteenth day of the month Casleu, in the hundred forty and fifth year, they set up the abomination of desolation upon the altar, and builded idol altars throughout the cities of Juda on every side;

Actually, the whole first chapter is a good read as is both Maccabees books.