Bible Study Go On to Mature, Godly Love.

[Tenchi]

1 John 4:9-10
9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that
God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us,
and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

1 John 4:19
19 We love him, because he first loved us.

​

It's occurred to me that, while my love for God might begin in the very human 1 John 4:19 manner, it must move on to become the supernatural sort of love of 1 John 4:10. Loving God because He first loved me is a contingent, or conditional, kind of love that is very natural to any human being, saved or not. In his Sermon on the Mount, Jesus described this conditional love very well:

Matthew 5:44-48
44 "But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
46 "For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
47 "If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?
48 "Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Loving God because He first loved me is to love in a way that any hated, first-century, traitorous, Jewish tax-collector would've loved. This type of love is not at all unique to Christians; any normal human being is capable of it. This isn't the way God loves, though, is it? No, He loved me when I was an enemy toward Him in my mind by my wicked works (Colossians 1:21). God loved me when I had no love for Him at all, sending His only Son to die for me though I was "foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating others" (Titus 3:3). God loved me when I was "dead in trespasses and sins," bound under the power of the World, the Flesh and the devil (Ephesians 2:1-3).

Jesus said that if I want to be perfect, as my Father in heaven is perfect, I must leave off my natural, contingent, human love and operate instead in my heavenly Father's way, loving those who hate me, who conspire against me, who even, perhaps, may seek to harm me. When I love my enemies with God's love, His power and character are displayed, He is glorified and I fulfill the purpose of my existence, drawing ever-closer to Him in so doing. As I take the lower place, becoming less that He might become more in my life, loving my enemies with His supernatural love though it costs me to do so, I discover, not just pious suffering, bitter and burdensome, but the deep joy, fulfillment and peace of doing what I was created to do.

It is, then, a spiritually-immature love that rests upon a "God loved me first" foundation. Christians are to go on to love out of the endless, perfect love of the Holy Spirit that extends to all, friend and enemy. Many are the born-again believers, however, who have stopped at the "I love Him because He first loved me," stage of love, remaining in it for decades. Though they are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, his love does not manifest in them. As they do with God, these believers love only those who love them, fiercely opposing any who offend them, slandering and maligning their enemies at every turn, returning evil for evil. But this isn't God's way; it doesn't follow the example of Christ at all. How has it happened that those in whom the Spirit dwells continue in such a spiritually-juvenile way?

The root problem is that they have eagerly accepted the love of God, escaping hell and obtaining membership in His family, but they have not submitted themselves to His will and way, consciously, explicitly placing themselves under His control throughout each day (Romans 6:13-21; Romans 8:14; Romans 12:1; James 4:7; 1 Peter 5:6). They are pleased to have God as their Savior and Father, but not their Master and Lord. They are delighted that God loves them and thrilled that He has promised them an eternity in Paradise, but they are entirely uninterested in being a "vessel, sanctified and ready for His use, prepared for every good work" (2 Timothy 2:21). Somehow, they've believed that they can be reconciled to God Almighty, Creator and Sustainer of Everything, without being yielded to Him as a "living sacrifice."

This, though, is to be a rebel toward God; not to be consciously, consistently submitted to Him is to be in rebellion toward Him. The Christian will not be filled by the Spirit, with the infinite, perfect love that he is, in such a condition. God is a gentleman, waiting on the believer's agreement - given in his submission - to transform the believer and fill him or her more and more with Himself. Until the believer submits to God, then, His supernatural love remains withheld from them - even if this circumstance persists for decades (as it often does).

To go on to mature, agape love, the love of 1 John 4:10, the born-again person must give over control to God, settling under His will and way, throughout each day yielding to Him. In this place of submission to God, the Holy Spirit moves to progressively fill the believer with the love that he is, doing so 'til they overflow with His love that reaches out self-sacrificially to everyone, friend and foe.

1 John 4:7-11
7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God;
and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.
8 The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love.
9 By this the love of God was manifested in us,
that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world so that we might live through Him.
10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us
and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.​

 

[donadams]

Why bother? If your saved nothing else matters? I got mine mentality!

 

[Tenchi]

Why bother? If your saved nothing else matters? I got mine mentality!

Yes, I encounter this "mentality" very often in the Church today. But there's the terrible story of Matthew 7:21-23 to consider in regards to this kind of thinking:

Matthew 7:21-23
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many miracles in your name?’
23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Jesus began this bit from his Sermon on the Mount by indicating that the one who will enter the kingdom of heaven is the one who does the will of the Father in heaven. What is the will of the Father? Well, His First and Great Commandment is as follows:

Matthew 22:36-38
36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?”
37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.
38 This is the great and first commandment.

Strangely, those making their case to Christ for entrance into God's kingdom on Judgment Day make no mention of obedience to this First and Great Commandment, though they point to other good deeds - all done in Christ's name - that they did in obedience to God. It is certainly the Father's will that the demon-possessed be freed of their possession; it is certainly the Father's will that His truth be preached (e.g. prophesied); it is certainly the Father's will that miracles be done in Christ's name. Nonetheless, Jesus says to them, "I never knew you. Depart from me, you workers of lawlessness."

Why is this Christ's response? Because the Father's will begins with the First and Great Commandment. If we aren't keeping this commandment, everything else we might do in the name of Christ is useless.

1 Corinthians 13:1-3
1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
2 And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
3 If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Those today in the Church who respond with disinterest to the call of God to love, not in a contingent, human way, but in God's own agape way, thinking they've got "fire insurance" and need nothing else are going to find themselves having with Christ on Judgment Day the horrible conversation he described in his Sermon on the Mount. God looks on the heart, not on outward performance, which can be deeply false, as it was for the Pharisees and scribes in Jesus' day.

 

[donadams]

Yes, I encounter this "mentality" very often in the Church today. But there's the terrible story of Matthew 7:21-23 to consider in regards to this kind of thinking:

Matthew 7:21-23
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many miracles in your name?’
23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Jesus began this bit from his Sermon on the Mount by indicating that the one who will enter the kingdom of heaven is the one who does the will of the Father in heaven. What is the will of the Father? Well, His First and Great Commandment is as follows:

Matthew 22:36-38
36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?”
37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.
38 This is the great and first commandment.

Strangely, those making their case to Christ for entrance into God's kingdom on Judgment Day make no mention of obedience to this First and Great Commandment, though they point to other good deeds - all done in Christ's name - that they did in obedience to God. It is certainly the Father's will that the demon-possessed be freed of their possession; it is certainly the Father's will that His truth be preached (e.g. prophesied); it is certainly the Father's will that miracles be done in Christ's name. Nonetheless, Jesus says to them, "I never knew you. Depart from me, you workers of lawlessness."

Why is this Christ's response? Because the Father's will begins with the First and Great Commandment. If we aren't keeping this commandment, everything else we might do in the name of Christ is useless.

1 Corinthians 13:1-3
1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
2 And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
3 If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Those today in the Church who respond with disinterest to the call of God to love, not in a contingent, human way, but in God's own agape way, thinking they've got "fire insurance" and need nothing else are going to find themselves having with Christ on Judgment Day the horrible conversation he described in his Sermon on the Mount. God looks on the heart, not on outward performance, which can be deeply false, as it was for the Pharisees and scribes in Jesus' day.

Deut 6:4 “You shal love the Lord your God with all your heart” gets lost in the mentality of “faith alone”!

Alone / sola nothing can possibly be added!

Fallen human nature is defective and seeks the easiest way

Thanks

 

[Tenchi]

Deut 6:4 “You shal love the Lord your God with all your heart” gets lost in the mentality of “faith alone”!

Alone / sola nothing can possibly be added!

Fallen human nature is defective and seeks the easiest way

Thanks

Well, I think what also happens is that love is confused with its by-products. Many Christians think that if they are obeying God, if they do good things, then they are loving God. But as I explained in my last post, this is deeply faulty thinking. It's possible to do all sorts of good things - even giving away all I posses to the needy, or being burned to death in martyrdom for the faith - without a love for God motivating them. And when this is so, the Bible says all my good deeds, no matter how self-sacrificing, profit me nothing.

It seems to me, then, to be extremely important to understand properly what God means when He says "Love me with all you are." He doesn't mean "Do good deeds." What "love God" means is "to desire Him with a strong, positive desire that ought to, in time, overtake everything else in my life." For a biblical basis for this I can look to the Psalmist who wrote:

Psalm 63:1
1 O God, you are my God; early will I seek you: my soul thirsts for you, my flesh longs for you in a dry and thirsty land, where no water is;

Psalm 84:2
2 My soul longs, yes, even faints for the courts of the LORD: my heart and my flesh cries out for the living God.

Psalm 42:1-2
1 As the hart pants for the water brooks, so my soul pants after you, O God.
2 My soul thirsts for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?

I can see the same deep desire for God, a love for Him, in the apostle Paul's words:

Philippians 3:7-10
7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

Many Christians obey the rules of Christian living - at least where others can see - and think they've shown a love for God. They make obedience and love synonymous. But this is a terrible mistake. Love comes before obedience and is distinct from obedience, giving rise to it - or ought to. But many are the professing Christians who have no love at all for God, for Christ, but obey biblical commands because they are afraid, or self-righteous, or feeling obligated, or guilty. But God says in His word, the only motive for our obedience He'll accept is love, a strong, over-riding positive desire to know and walk with Him.

 

[donadams]

Well, I think what also happens is that love is confused with its by-products. Many Christians think that if they are obeying God, if they do good things, then they are loving God. But as I explained in my last post, this is deeply faulty thinking. It's possible to do all sorts of good things - even giving away all I posses to the needy, or being burned to death in martyrdom for the faith - without a love for God motivating them. And when this is so, the Bible says all my good deeds, no matter how self-sacrificing, profit me nothing.

It seems to me, then, to be extremely important to understand properly what God means when He says "Love me with all you are." He doesn't mean "Do good deeds." What "love God" means is "to desire Him with a strong, positive desire that ought to, in time, overtake everything else in my life." For a biblical basis for this I can look to the Psalmist who wrote:

Psalm 63:1
1 O God, you are my God; early will I seek you: my soul thirsts for you, my flesh longs for you in a dry and thirsty land, where no water is;

Psalm 84:2
2 My soul longs, yes, even faints for the courts of the LORD: my heart and my flesh cries out for the living God.

Psalm 42:1-2
1 As the hart pants for the water brooks, so my soul pants after you, O God.
2 My soul thirsts for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?

I can see the same deep desire for God, a love for Him, in the apostle Paul's words:

Philippians 3:7-10
7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

Many Christians obey the rules of Christian living - at least where others can see - and think they've shown a love for God. They make obedience and love synonymous. But this is a terrible mistake. Love comes before obedience and is distinct from obedience, giving rise to it - or ought to. But many are the professing Christians who have no love at all for God, for Christ, but obey biblical commands because they are afraid, or self-righteous, or feeling obligated, or guilty. But God says in His word, the only motive for our obedience He'll accept is love, a strong, over-riding positive desire to know and walk with Him.

We must be in Christ by faith and baptism then we have union with God and communion with the saints thru His grace which breathes life into all our actions!
Jn 15:5
Phil 4:13

Thanks

 

[Josef]

Hey All,
I have some questions Tenchi. I have to do two posts as this is too long for a single. So be aware.

"The root problem is that they have eagerly accepted the love of God, escaping hell and obtaining membership in His family, but they have not submitted themselves to His will and way, consciously, explicitly placing themselves under His control throughout each day (Romans 6:13-21; Romans 8:14; Romans 12:1; James 4:7; 1 Peter 5:6)." Quote from Tenchi

Did you know to do all of this when you were first saved? (Because it looks like you are comparing a new believer with one who has advanced their knowledge.)
New believers need time to grow into their faith. I didn't know the verses you listed when I received Jesus. I was four years old. I just knew God loves me. When things go spiritually south, "God loves me" is still the life buoy I cling to. 61 years later, throughout all of life's ups and downs, "God loves me" still. Yehaw and Amen!!!

"Somehow, they've believed that they can be reconciled to God Almighty, Creator and Sustainer of Everything, without being yielded to Him as a "living sacrifice."

"This, though, is to be a rebel toward God; not to be consciously, consistently submitted to Him is to be in rebellion toward Him." Quote from Tenchi

Again, I wasn't being a rebel. I was 4. It takes time to grow. Also I believe we are living sacrifices without being aware of it. In Matthew 25, when the righteous are questioning the King about when they fed, clothed, or cared for Him. Remember His answer?

Matthew 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

The righteous were living sacrifices without even being aware of it.
The group on the Lord's left hand were aware of their sacrifice. They were trying to be righteous through their sacrifice. Why were they rejected?

Matthew 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

The takeaway here is don't try to be righteous in your own doing. It is not our righteousness that makes us a living sacrifice pleasing unto God. It is God's righteousness working through us, in ways of which we are not even aware. That is what being a living sacrifice means to me. I used to wrestle with being imperfect. How can God use me? Then I found this passage.

2 Corinthians 4:6-7 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

God uses my imperfection. God's light shines in our hearts and, if we are walking the walk, gives light and knowledge of God's glory. Our imperfection shows the power is God's, and not ours.

Romans 1:19-20 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

We, as imperfect humans, who are believers, reveal the invisible things of God. Our changed lives manifest those invisible things. I have prayed for years and years that God would take away my imperfection. God showed me these verses one day. You know what? I can never be perfect within this "earthen vessel." Now this does not mean I get to sin all I want. I have to resist sin the same as any other believer. I try every day to be perfect. I also ask for forgiveness every day because I am not. So I am not OK being imperfect: Because God can use me as I am. But perfect I will never be, in this sinful flesh. <Split here>

Taz

 

[Josef]

Hey All Again,
This is the second part of my questions and reasoning for asking them.

"The Christian will not be filled by the Spirit, with the infinite, perfect love that he is, in such a condition. God is a gentleman, waiting on the believer's agreement - given in his submission - to transform the believer and fill him or her more and more with Himself." Quote from Tenchi

Are you saying that God the Holy Spirit does not indwell us fully? Down further in the post you also wrote about "progressive filling." Are we incompletely filled? That is not my experience. As soon as I had understanding of a subject grace, faith, love, I knew I had it. I had it all along but became aware of it as I grew and matured in my understanding of Scriptures. (That is the faith comes by hearing part.)

"To go on to mature, agape love, the love of 1 John 4:10, the born-again person must give over control to God, settling under His will and way, throughout each day yielding to Him. In this place of submission to God, the Holy Spirit moves to progressively fill the believer with the love that he is, doing so 'til they overflow with His love that reaches out self-sacrificially to everyone, friend and foe." Quote from Tenchi

1 John 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

God shows agape to unbelievers calling them to Himself. That is the agape love of God. We receive it from Him when we believed. Agape is manifest through the grace (the unmerited favor) of God.
Is a human capable of agape apart from God? Or is agape God's love shining through us? I believe the latter is true. So I don't agree with taking what is God's, and acting like it is mine.

I also don't agree with the progressive indwelling, or filling, of the Holy Spirit. Neither Jesus, nor the apostles ever said we get a percentage of filling when we believe, and more as you progress. I looked and could not find any place in Scripture that supports this notion of progressive indwelling. If you have something, please share.

So those are my questions. And my reasoning (using Scripture) for asking them.

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

 

[donadams]

1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord JesusChrist, let him be Anathema

 

[Tenchi]

Hey All,
I have some questions Tenchi. I have to do two posts as this is too long for a single. So be aware.

"The root problem is that they have eagerly accepted the love of God, escaping hell and obtaining membership in His family, but they have not submitted themselves to His will and way, consciously, explicitly placing themselves under His control throughout each day (Romans 6:13-21; Romans 8:14; Romans 12:1; James 4:7; 1 Peter 5:6)." Quote from Tenchi

Did you know to do all of this when you were first saved? (Because it looks like you are comparing a new believer with one who has advanced their knowledge.)

It is basic to the Gospel that God is Superior and we, inferior. We are sheep to Shepherd, creature to Creator, branch to Vine, servant to Master, child to Father, and so on. There is, therefore, no way to relate with God well except from a position of submission to Him. If that is not understood, then the new convert's experience of God is going to be correspondingly shallow and obedience to Him inconsistent. Being new to the faith has no bearing upon this reality, mitigating against it so that the new believer can approach God apart from a place of submission to Him. This is why it is so dismaying to me to see so many "Christians" who are entirely ignorant of the absolute necessity of remaining in submission to God throughout each day.

"Somehow, they've believed that they can be reconciled to God Almighty, Creator and Sustainer of Everything, without being yielded to Him as a "living sacrifice."

"This, though, is to be a rebel toward God; not to be consciously, consistently submitted to Him is to be in rebellion toward Him." Quote from Tenchi

Again, I wasn't being a rebel. I was 4. It takes time to grow.

What about my post suggests it was to, or about, a four-year-old? It ought to go without saying that a person can only be held responsible for knowing and acting on the biblical truths I wrote about if they are capable of understanding them. It never occurred to me to that I should state something so obvious...

Also I believe we are living sacrifices without being aware of it. In Matthew 25, when the righteous are questioning the King about when they fed, clothed, or cared for Him. Remember His answer?

Matthew 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

The righteous were living sacrifices without even being aware of it.
The group on the Lord's left hand were aware of their sacrifice. They were trying to be righteous through their sacrifice. Why were they rejected?

??? Why are you going to an entirely different book of the NT to understand Paul's words in his letter to the believers at Rome? If you want to properly understand any verse, phrase, or word in Scripture your first and primary practice ought always to be to consider them in their immediate context.

If believers are living sacrifices as a matter of course, then why did Paul command the believers at Rome to be such sacrifices? And where in Christ's remarks in Matthew 25:40 does he make any reference to being a living sacrifice unto God? Nowhere. Certainly, mere charitable giving is not what Paul meant by a "living sacrifice." Every Jew reading Paul's words knew well that a sacrifice, once given, was irretrievable and could not be properly offered piecemeal, portions of the sacrifice held back. They would have understood Paul to mean by "living sacrifice" a total giving over of oneself to God's will and way, living each day under His control and direction, whatever the cost.

The takeaway here is don't try to be righteous in your own doing. It is not our righteousness that makes us a living sacrifice pleasing unto God.

Is this biblical? No. It's not. Yielding myself as a "living sacrifice" to God is itself a righteous deed that He commands, recognizes and blesses. Read James 4:6-10, or 1 Peter 5:6. Every act of obedience to God is supposed to be a manifestation of my life yielded to Him as a sacrifice. When it isn't, it is the deed of a rebel toward God - however morally good and beneficial to others - and He treats it as such.

It is God's righteousness working through us, in ways of which we are not even aware. That is what being a living sacrifice means to me. I used to wrestle with being imperfect. How can God use me? Then I found this passage.

2 Corinthians 4:6-7 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

God uses my imperfection. God's light shines in our hearts and, if we are walking the walk, gives light and knowledge of God's glory. Our imperfection shows the power is God's, and not ours.

God's Spirit works in and through us - but only so long as we are not a rebel toward God, living out from under the Spirit's control. When we are rebels, the Spirit is not participating in what we're doing.

2 Corinthians 4:6-7 doesn't say that God fills rebels with Himself, with His power and righteousness, working through them despite their rebellion.

Scripture actually says the reverse about one who lives in sinful rebellion toward God:

1 Peter 3:10-12
10 For “Whoever desires to love life and see good days, let him keep his tongue from evil and his lips from speaking deceit;
11 let him turn away from evil and do good; let him seek peace and pursue it.
12 For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous, and his ears are open to their prayer. But the face of the Lord is against those who do evil.”

Psalm 66:18
18 If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me:

1 John 1:6
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

I don't know exactly what you mean by "God uses our imperfection," but if you're trying to make your sin less sinful by suggesting God can turn it to His righteous purposes, then you don't understand the nature of God. You should take a look at Isaiah and Jeremiah if you think sin is okay with God, or no big deal since He can rework it to good ends.

Our sin as believers actually gives others cause for blaspheming His name.

Romans 2:21-24
21 you then who teach others, do you not teach yourself? While you preach against stealing, do you steal?
22 You who say that one must not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples?
23 You who boast in the law dishonor God by breaking the law.
24 For, as it is written, “The name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.”

Continued below.

 

[Tenchi]

We, as imperfect humans, who are believers, reveal the invisible things of God. Our changed lives manifest those invisible things.

If they are changed by God. Unbelievers can make changes, too, ceasing addictions, leaving off adulterous affairs, educating themselves and reforming their values and beliefs. They can do all these things without God. What, then, distinguishes the changes God makes in His children? And how can such change be observed and trusted when it is mixed with sin? The "imperfection" of our sin puts the lie to our claim to know God be walking in His power.

Read 1 Peter 1:15-16.

I have prayed for years and years that God would take away my imperfection.

Have you done this from a life consistently, daily yielded to His will and way? If not, your prayers issued from the life of a rebel and God will have responded to them accordingly. This is, at least in part, why you've prayed "for years and years" without meeting with the transformation and freedom from bondage to sin that God has promised all those who are under the control of His Spirit. You are not alone in this experience.

You know what? I can never be perfect within this "earthen vessel."

Who has told you that you should be, or can be? I haven't. But you can, by God's grace, be a whole lot less imperfect than you are.

I have to resist sin the same as any other believer. I try every day to be perfect.

Where are born-again children of God (not pre-Calvary, unregenerate Jews) told in the New Testament to "resist sin" and "try to be perfect"? They are told to submit to God and stand by faith in who they are in Christ. Read Romans 6. The rest is the domain of the Holy Spirit. (2 Corinthians 3:18; Romans 8:9-14; Ephesians 3:16; Philippians 2:13; Philippians 4:13; Galatians 5:16.)

I also ask for forgiveness every day because I am not.

Where, after Christ's atoning work at Calvary, are born-again people ever told to ask God for forgiveness? Nowhere.

So I am not OK being imperfect: Because God can use me as I am.

No, He won't. Not so long as you neglect to live daily under the control of His Spirit, submitted to his will and way.

Are you saying that God the Holy Spirit does not indwell us fully?

The Holy Spirit does not fully control the person who has not consciously, consistently yielded control to him. And so long as he is not in control, he does not work to empower and transform the person in whom he dwells.

Down further in the post you also wrote about "progressive filling." Are we incompletely filled? That is not my experience.

Your experience is only useful in this matter of the actions of the Spirit so long as it comports with God's word. And His word clearly indicates that the Spirit indwelling folks doesn't automatically mean he fills them with his life and power. See Acts 4:8, Acts 4:31, Romans 15:13, Ephesians 5:18. Filling has to do with the Spirit's control, not his presence within a saved person.

God shows agape to unbelievers calling them to Himself. That is the agape love of God. We receive it from Him when we believed. Agape is manifest through the grace (the unmerited favor) of God.
Is a human capable of agape apart from God? Or is agape God's love shining through us? I believe the latter is true. So I don't agree with taking what is God's, and acting like it is mine.

Please re-read my OP.

I also don't agree with the progressive indwelling, or filling, of the Holy Spirit.

The Bible indicates only the latter, not the former. See above.