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God Named a City after His Wife

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God Named a City after His Wife

Psalm 137:5. If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand forget her cunning. 6. If I do not remember thee, let my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth; if I prefer not Jerusalem above my chief joy.

Isaiah 54:4. Fear not; for thou shalt not be ashamed: neither be thou confounded; for thou shalt not be put to shame: for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more. 5. For thy Maker is thine husband; the Lord of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called. 6. For the Lord hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God. 7. For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee. 8. In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the Lord thy Redeemer. 9. For this is as the waters of Noah unto me: for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee. 10. For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but my kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed, saith the Lord that hath mercy on thee. 11. O thou afflicted, tossed with tempest, and not comforted, behold, I will lay thy stones with fair colours, and lay thy foundations with sapphires. 12. And I will make thy windows of agates, and thy gates of carbuncles, and all thy borders of pleasant stones. 13. And all thy children shall be taught of the Lord; and great shall be the peace of thy children.

Isaiah 66:7. Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child. 8. Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children. 9. Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the Lord: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God. 10. Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her: 11. That ye may suck, and be satisfied with the breasts of her consolations; that ye may milk out, and be delighted with the abundance of her glory.

Galatians 4:26. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Heaven consists of 12 worlds (heavens) stacked one on top of the other like a 12-story building. All 12 Orders of Angels or divisions of children will reside in these precincts or suburbs. Now …. why would an all-wise God name Heaven after His Wife? The entire Family population of children are to reside in this City. All the married pairs of children have mansions already prepared for their residency in one of the 12 divisions. A city is a section of landscape where citizens reside. In ancient times these were walled enclosures with gates to protect the residents from hostile raiders and armies. Most of the cities we know of today have borders called city limits, and those who live within those borders its inhabitants. Let us go back to the beginning before time began when God and Mother Wisdom PLANNED PARENTHOOD. Mother Zion was pregnant with all the children She and God thought to create during the 4th Creation Day! All the children were residents walled within Her womb and developing inside Her as infant spirits. To commemorate all this, the City serves in the same way as Her womb did then. This time the children are outside Her Body fully mature and glorified as adult angels. The walls of the Heavenly City are analogous to the wills of Mother’s womb before our beginning. So Her womb was an enclosure holding immature infant children, and the Holy City is also an enclosure holding adult and glorious children.

Before

Secrets of Enoch 25 1 I commanded in the very lowest parts, that visible things should come down from invisible, and Adoil came down very great, and I beheld 2 him, and lo! he had a belly of great light. And I said to him: 'Become undone, Adoil, and let 3 the visible come out of thee.' And he came undone, and a great light came out. And I was in the midst of the great light, and as there is born light from light, there came forth a great age, and showed all creation, which I had thought to 4 create. And I saw that it was good. And I placed for myself a throne, and took; my seat on it, and said to the light: 'Go thou up higher and fix thyself high above the throne, and be 5 a foundation to the highest things.' And above the light there is nothing else, and then I bent up and looked up from my throne.

Psalm 87: 4. I will make mention of Rahab and Babylon to them that know me: behold Philistia, and Tyre, with Ethiopia; this man was born there. 5. And of Zion it shall be said, This and that man was born in her: and the highest himself shall establish her. 6. The Lord shall count, when he writeth up the people, that this man was born there. Selah. 7. As well the singers as the players on instruments shall be there: all my (off)springs are in thee.

Psalm 127:3. Lo, children are an heritage of the Lord: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.

James 1:17. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. 18. Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

1 Thessalonians 5:5. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

Revelation 12:1. And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: 2. And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. 17. And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

After

2 Esdras 2:17 Have no fear, mother of many sons; I have chosen you, says the Lord. 18 'I will send my servants Isaiah and Jeremiah to help you. As they prophesied, I have set you apart to be my people. I have made ready for you twelve trees laden with different kinds of fruit, 19 twelve fountains flowing with milk and honey, and seven great mountains covered with roses and 20 lilies. There will I fill your sons with joy. Be joyful, 31 mother, you and your sons, for I will come to your rescue. Remember your children who sleep in the grave; I will bring them up from the depths of the earth, and show mercy to them; for I am merciful, says the Lord 32 Almighty. Cherish your children until I come, and proclaim my mercy to them; for my favour flows abundantly from springs that will never run dry.' 38 Rise, stand up, and see the whole company of those who bear the 39 Lord's mark and sit at his table. They have moved out of the shadow of this 40 world and have received shining robes from the Lord. Receive, O Zion your full number, and close the roll of those arrayed in white who have 41 faithfully kept the law of the Lord. The number of your sons whom you so long desired is now complete. Pray that the Lord's kingdom may come, so that your people, whom he summoned when the world began, may be set apart as his own.' 42 I, Ezra, saw on Mount Zion a crowd too large to count, all singing hymns 43 of praise to the Lord. In the middle stood a very tall young man, taller than all the rest, who was setting a crown on the head of each one of them; he 44 stood out above them all.

2 Esdras 10:25 Suddenly, while I was still speaking to the woman, I saw her face begin to shine; her countenance flashed like lightning, and I shrank from her in 26 terror. While I wondered what this meant, she suddenly uttered a loud and 27 terrible cry, which shook the earth. I looked up and saw no longer a woman but a complete city, built on massive foundations. I cried aloud in terror, 28 'Where is the angel Uriel, who visited me before? It is his doing that I have fallen into this bewilderment, that all my hopes are shattered, and all my prayers in vain.' 29 I was still speaking when the angel appeared who had visited me before. 30 When he saw me lying in a dead faint, unconscious on the ground, he grasped me by my right hand, put strength into me, and raised me to my 31 feet. 'What is the matter?' he asked. 'Why are you overcome? What was it 32 that disturbed your mind and made you faint?' 'It was because you deserted me', I replied. 'I did what you told me: I came out to the field; and what I have seen here and can still see is beyond my power to relate.' 33 'Stand up like a man,' he said, 'and I will explain it to you.' 34 Speak, my lord,' I replied; 'only do not abandon me and leave me to die 35 unsatisfied. For I have seen and I hear things beyond my understanding --- 36 37 unless this is all an illusion and a dream. I beg you to tell me, my lord, the meaning of my vision.' 38 Listen to me,' replied the angel, 'while I explain to you the meaning of the things that terrify you; for the Most High has revealed many secrets 39 to you. He has seen your blameless life, your unceasing grief for your 40 people, and your deep' mourning over Zion. Here then is the meaning of 41 the vision. A little while ago you saw a woman in mourning, and tried to 42 43 give her comfort; now you no longer see that woman, but a whole city. She 44 told you she had lost her son, and this is the explanation. The woman you 45 saw is Zion, which you now see as a city with all its buildings. She told you she was childless for thirty years; that was because there were three 46 thousand years in which sacrifices were not yet offered in Zion. But then, after the three thousand years, Solomon built the city and offered the 47 sacrifices; that was the time when the barren woman bore her son. She took great pains, she said, over his upbringing; that was the period when 48 Jerusalem was inhabited. Then she told you of the great loss she suffered, how her son died on the day he entered his wedding-chamber; that was the 49 destruction which overtook Jerusalem. Such then was the vision that you --- saw the woman mourning for her son --- and you tried to comfort her in 50 her sufferings; this was the revelation you had to receive. Seeing your sincere grief and heartfelt sympathy for the woman, the Most High is now 51 showing you her radiant glory and her beauty. That was why I told you to 52 stay in a field where no house stood, for I knew that the Most High intended 53 to send you this revelation. I told you to come to this field, where no 54 foundation had been laid for any building; for in the place where the city of the Most High was to be revealed, no building made by man could stand. 55 'Have no fear then, Ezra, and set your trembling heart at rest; go into the city, and see the magnificence of the buildings, so far as your eyes have 56 power to see it all. Then, after that, you shall hear as much as your ears 57 have power to hear. You are more blessed than most other men, and few 58 have such a name with the Most High as you have. Stay here till tomorrow 59 night, when the Most High will show you in dreams and visions what he intends to do to the inhabitants of earth in the last days.'

Isaiah 66:18. For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory. 21. And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the Lord. 22. For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23. And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.

Revelation 5:9. And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10. And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. 11. And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; 12. Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, honour, and glory, and blessing. 13. And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.


Perhaps now you understand why Paul wrote, “Jerusalem above is Mother of us allâ€Â, and also why “Jerusalem is called the Holy City†in the Book of the Revelation.

John,
ourfamily1 :wink: :P :D :lol:
 
John, pulling verses here and there from all over the Bible, a person could "prove" almost any concept in the Bible. The whole context of each text must be considered, in order to arrive at its meaning.

Paul distinctly states that the accounts of Abraham, his two sons, and their mothers: Agar--the bondwoman, and Sarah (name not given)--the freewoman, is an allegory.

You infer that "Jerusalem" is the city God named after his wife. I would disagree with that.

All for now, must go.
 
Daniel 12:8. And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? 9. And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. 10. Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

Isaiah 64:3. When thou didst terrible things which we looked not for, thou camest down, the mountains flowed down at thy presence. 4. For since the beginning of the world men have not heard, nor perceived by the ear, neither hath the eye seen, O God, beside thee, what he hath prepared for him that waiteth for him.

Revelation 10: 8. And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again, and said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which standeth upon the sea and upon the earth. 9. And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey. 10. And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter. 11. And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

Matthew 10:26. ... for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known. 27. What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.

Isaiah 29:18. And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness. 19. The meek also shall increase their joy in the Lord, and the poor among men shall rejoice in the Holy One of Israel. 20. For the terrible one is brought to nought, and the scorner is consumed, and all that watch for iniquity are cut off:

"Eyes have not seen, nor ears heard; neither has it entered the heart of men what God has prepared for them that trust Him". ONLY IN THE END of time these things are being revealed by the Father. Telling me what was revealed in Paul's day is not relevant. But stay tuned!

Isaiah 50:4. The Lord God hath given me the tongue of the learned, that I should know how to speak a word in season to him that is weary: he wakeneth morning by morning, he wakeneth mine ear to hear as the learned. 5. The Lord God hath opened mine ear, and I was not rebellious, neither turned away back.

Psalm 91:14. Because he hath set his love upon me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set him on high, because he hath known my name. 15. He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honour him. 16. With long life will I satisfy him, and shew him my salvation.

Jeremiah 23:28. The prophet that hath a dream, let him tell a dream; and he that hath my word, let him speak my word faithfully. What is the chaff to the wheat? saith the Lord. 29. Is not my word like as a fire? saith the Lord; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?

So stand by, Bick, there is more to come that will amaze your human mind!

John,
ourfamily1
 
Are you more knowledgable than God?

Isaiah 54:5. For thy Maker is thine husband; the Lord of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called. 6. For the Lord hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God. 7. For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee.

Proverbs 8:12. I wisdom dwell with prudence, and find out knowledge of witty inventions. 13. The fear of the Lord is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate. 14. Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom: I am understanding; I have strength. 15. By me kings reign, and princes decree justice. 16. By me princes rule, and nobles, even all the judges of the earth. 17. I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me. 18. Riches and honour are with me; yea, durable riches and righteousness. 19. My fruit is better than gold, yea, than fine gold; and my revenue than choice silver. 20. I lead in the way of righteousness, in the midst of the paths of judgment: 21. That I may cause those that love me to inherit substance; and I will fill their treasures. 22. The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. 23. I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. 24. When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water. 25. Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: 26. While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world. 27. When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth: 28. When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep: 29. When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth: 30. Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him; 31. Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men. 32. Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed are they that keep my ways. 33. Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not. 34. Blessed is the man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors. 35. For whoso findeth me findeth life, and shall obtain favour of the Lord.

Enoch 42:1 Wisdom found no place where she might dwell; Then a dwelling-place was assigned her in the heavens. 2 Wisdom went forth to make her dwelling among the children of men, And found no dwelling-place: Wisdom returned to her place, And took her seat among the angels. 3 And unrighteousness went forth from her chambers: Whom she sought not she found, And dwelt with them, As rain in a desert And dew on a thirsty land.

Psalm 87:1. His foundation is in the holy mountains. 2. The Lord loveth the gates of Zion more than all the dwellings of Jacob. 3. Glorious things are spoken of thee, O city of God. Selah. 4. I will make mention of Rahab and Babylon to them that know me: behold Philistia, and Tyre, with Ethiopia; this man was born there. 5. And of Zion it shall be said, This and that man was born in her: and the highest himself shall establish her. 6. The Lord shall count, when he writeth up the people, that this man was born there. Selah. 7. As well the singers as the players on instruments shall be there: all my springs are in thee.

Nature teaches you that it takes a male and a female to reproduce higher life forms. But you choose to be mindless when it comes to your own spirit birthright! And now you presume foolishly to say "God has no Wife"?

Revelation 12:1. And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: 2. And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

Galatians 4:26. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

You are not an eye-witness! Your words are irrelevant! Thanks.

John,
ourfamily1 :wink: :P :D :lol:
 
ourfamily1 said:
Nature teaches you that it takes a male and a female to reproduce higher life forms.

Yet rules of nature do not dictate to an unconfinable and untamable God. Nature, at best, can only serve as an analogy for higher spiritual truths.

ourfamily1 said:
But you choose to be mindless when it comes to your own spirit birthright! And now you presume foolishly to say "God has no Wife"?

Israel is pictured in Ezekiel 16 as God's "wife" yet is of course viewed from the covenant and love perspective. I do not know to what extent you believe the wife analogy carries, though chapters like Ezekiel 16 make the general idea valid. Though for specifics Jesus makes it clear that no form of marriage as we know it will exist in heaven, "For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven" (Matthew 22:30).

ourfamily1 said:
Revelation 12:1. And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: 2. And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

It is believed that the woman is Israel here, thus the 12 stars representing the twelve tribes of Israel, and that out of Israel came the Messiah (the child). But once again the woman as Israel is valid, and so is the Church (of whom believing Israel is a part) as being the bride of Christ, both of which are corporate, covenant promises. In other words we, the Church, are God's wife (his bride, at least as far as we are presently betrothed to Him).

God Bless,

~Josh
 
Nature teaches you that it takes a male and a female to reproduce higher life forms. But you choose to be mindless when it comes to your own spirit birthright! And now you presume foolishly to say "God has no Wife"?
Nature teaches us nothing, John. God is the source of all knowledge. We do not reproduce higher lifeforms. We reproduce humans equal in "life form" to ourselves. You are teaching we evolve into a higher life form with each proceeding generation, is that correct? If so, you are teaching Spiritualism, spiritual evolution, not fundamental Christian doctrine. :smt018 This is more in line with Mormon teaching. It's also very new age-ish.

Also, DO NOT call me mindless or foolish for disagreeing with your literalistic notion that God actually has a wife. I fully understand the allegorical interpretations of the husband/wife analogy, but you seem to neglect this, as Josh graciously pointed out:

There is no marriage after the Resurrection. :-?
 
Ya know, just when i think I've heard it all, someone goes and moves the boundary line again. :o
 
You do not have eyes that see and ears that hear! This must happen for you to understand my post!

Psalms 87:1. His foundation is in the holy mountains. 2. The Lord loveth the gates of Zion more than all the dwellings of Jacob. 3. Glorious things are spoken of thee, O city of God. Selah. 4. I will make mention of Rahab and Babylon to them that know me: behold Philistia, and Tyre, with Ethiopia; this man was born there. 5. And of Zion it shall be said, This and that man was born in her: and the highest himself shall establish her. 6. The Lord shall count, when he writeth up the people, that this man was born there. Selah. 7. As well the singers as the players on instruments shall be there: all my (off)springs are in thee.

God has not as yet "established Her" (revealed Her) to your mind! When He does you will "GET" the message!

Isaiah 66:7. Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child. 8. Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children. 9. Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the Lord: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God. 10. Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her: 11. That ye may suck, and be satisfied with the breasts of her consolations; that ye may milk out, and be delighted with the abundance of her glory.

Galatians 4:26. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

She is called "El Shaddai" which means "the breasted one"!

You can read all about "Mom" here: http://www.goodnewsinc.net/v4gn/shaddai.html

Enjoy the ride folks! This is about "OUR FAMILY"! Revelations coming in this END TIME are not things you know about and understand. Quite the contrary it is things you never knew which just might "blow your mind"!! So get ready and stay ready to ride HIGH!

John,
ourfamily1 :wink: :P :D :lol:
 
Spiritually speaking Israel is God's wife,whom He divorced

Isaiah 50:1 "Thus saith the LORD, Where is the bill of your mother's divorcement, whom I have put away? or which of my creditors is it to whom I have sold you? Behold, for your iniquities have ye sold yourselves, and for your transgressions is your mother put away."

God is asking this of the person that has reached the breaking point, the breach that has caused the separation between him or her and God. If you say that I divorced you, show men the divorce documents that states that I have put your mother away? If you say I sold to one of my creditors, then to whom do you say that I am a creditor to?

Think about what this is saying. God is telling them that I didn't sell you, nor divorce you from myself, but it was you that caused the breach. You sold yourselves by your own sins, and it was you that caused the transgressions that put your mother away.

The "mother" in the Hebrew text is "Em, ame; a prime, the bonding force". It is you that caused the bonding force between you and God to be breached. If you say it was God's fault for this sin, then God is saying, show me the documentation for this separation. What God says He puts in writing, and what He puts in writing, that is what He abides with. When man goes against the writings of God which are written in His Word, then that person has caused the breach.

So if you want to know why your mother was put away [why the bond was broken], Go to the Word and the reason is given. When the House of Israel was divorced from God, there was written documentation, she was practicing idolatry. It was the House of Israel that was practicing idolatry and broke the marriage bonds that were between God and that nation of the House of Israel. This is what the book of Hosea is all about, it was God's warning in writing through the prophet Hosea that He was divorcing the House of Israel, those ten tribes to the north of Judah that Sennacherib took captive and scattered.

Hosea tells of the two sisters that were symbolic of the House of Israel, and the House of Judah. Even though God sets up types of events that are warnings of things that shall happen again, God always abides by the principle of His laws and commandments. In as much as God sent His Son our Savior, and the Savior died, She or the House of Israel was free to marry again. She was free to return to the Heavenly Father. This in a natural way, introduces the role of the Messiah which becomes the "bridegroom" and those who choose Him, the "bride".

Hosea 1:9 "Then said God, call his name Lo ammi: for ye are not My People, and I will not be your God."

This is God's divorcement of the House of Israel for the many forms of idolatry that they had practiced.

Hosea 1:10 "Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured not numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, `Ye are not My People,' there it shall be said unto them, `Ye are the sons of the living God.' "

This divorcement came in seven hundred years before the birth of Christ. However, Hosea is letting us know in the next verse that there is hope for the House of Israel. He is telling us that this nation will grow into nations so numerous in population that their numbers simply can't be counted. Though they will not know who they are in the locations they are in, that they are part of the House of Israel, in the location they are in they will be called "the sons of the living God." They will be called the "sons of Christ", or "Christians".

This is why there had to be two advents, rather than one. So what God is saying in this verse in Isaiah, is that you produce the documentation that shows that I sold you, and broke the bonds of marriage that we were commited to. It doesn't exist, you will not find it. God did all the things that were required to protect and care for His bride, Israel. He freed them from bondage in Egypt, parted the sea, produced food and water where there was none, and through the years protected them from their enemies, yet they continually went to play the role of the harlot. He even gave them a set of rules to live by to give them better health both physically and mentally.

Yet we see even today, those that call themselves Christians by His name, show little respect for those rules. It is no wonder that people are in such poor health, and tossed around by every wind of doctrine that hits their ears. God did not put our troubles upon us, but we put the separation upon ourselves, speaking of mankind in general. We all fall short of God's standards in time because flesh is sin, flesh causes us to sin, and that is why we must repent as those sins are recognized on a daily basis. This is why we must practice discipline, to force the inner soul of our bodies to take control over the flesh body that will try to sin.
 
Well said, Onelove.

Presently, though starting many years ago, Israel is not the people of God. Yet, He promises to draw them back from the nations where they have been scattered, and be His people, and IMO, that is in the Messianic Kingdom which will be set up after Jesus as Messiah returns to the earth to become "King of kings and Lord of lords."

I do disagree that that the church/body of Christ is "the bride of Christ." This phrase is not in the Bible. The bride, IMO, is the saved remnant of Israel, starting with Jesus earthly ministry. Jesus is identified as the "bridegroom" a number of places in the Gospels. In fact, in John 3:29, John the baptizer seeing Jesus' disciples, said, "He that hath the bride is the bridegroom", identifying them as "the bride."

Jesus spoke of the marriage feast, where Abraham, Isaac and Jacob will be in the kingdom of the heavens (Matt. 8:11), and alluded to it in certain parables (Matt. 22:1-14; 25:1-13).

This will take place on the earth, but the church/body of Christ has a heavenly destiny as Paul, our apostle and teacher, enlightens us of our being caught away to the heavens (1 Cor. 15:51-56 and 1 Thes. 4:13-18). Then, read chapts 1-3 in Ephesians, and there is revealed that we are sons of God, and if sons, then heirs, heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ...in the heavenlies.

Bick
 
Heheheh,

I do disagree that that the church/body of Christ is "the bride of Christ." This phrase is not in the Bible. The bride, IMO, is the saved remnant of Israel, starting with Jesus earthly ministry. Jesus is identified as the "bridegroom" a number of places in the Gospels. In fact, in John 3:29, John the baptizer seeing Jesus' disciples, said, "He that hath the bride is the bridegroom", identifying them as "the bride."
You are among a minority who believe that. Don't fret it, I am in that minority also. :-D I would go back a little farther than Jesus though. There's several references in the OT, just three or four in the NT, most in Revelation, which is a very Jewish book anyway. They are the Bride, we are the Body. :-)
 
vic C. said:
Heheheh,

I do disagree that that the church/body of Christ is "the bride of Christ." This phrase is not in the Bible. The bride, IMO, is the saved remnant of Israel, starting with Jesus earthly ministry. Jesus is identified as the "bridegroom" a number of places in the Gospels. In fact, in John 3:29, John the baptizer seeing Jesus' disciples, said, "He that hath the bride is the bridegroom", identifying them as "the bride."
You are among a minority who believe that. Don't fret it, I am in that minority also. :-D I would go back a little farther than Jesus though. There's several references in the OT, just three or four in the NT, most in Revelation, which is a very Jewish book anyway. They are the Bride, we are the Body. :-)

MY COMMENTS: Hi Vic; yes, I heard for many years that the church/body is the "Bride of Christ", until I found out different through 'rightly dividing the word of truth'.

And, I agree completely, Revelation has to do with Israel and the nations, not the Church/Body of Christ.
 
ourfamily1 said:
You do not have eyes that see and ears that hear! This must happen for you to understand my post!
I think the only thing needed to understand your posts is narcotics.
Well, that and a faulty hermaneutic. Without a good foundational understanding of the Bible you can go all around and take it all out of context and come up with a lot of screwy insane thoughts.

Oh wait, this thread proves my point.
 
Bick said:
MY COMMENTS: Hi Vic; yes, I heard for many years that the church/body is the "Bride of Christ", until I found out different through 'rightly dividing the word of truth'.

Christ must have two brides then, since Paul says to the Church: "For I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy; for I betrothed you to one husband, so that to Christ I might present you as a pure virgin" (2 Corinthians 11:2).

And also:

"So then, if while her husband is living she is joined to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is not an adulteress though she is joined to another man.
Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God
." (Romans 7:3-4)

"And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.
And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them
" (Revelation 21:2-3)

Here, in this last passage, Jerusalem is set in place of the people by analogy of their dwelling place while being God's people eschatalogically (and later it is the people who are directly called the Bride). Paul in 2 Corinthians 6:16 repeats the promise to the Jews of Him dwelling with us to the Church as well, and Paul in Galatians 4:26 says that Jerusalem is the mother of us all, thus we are all identified together, Jews and Gentiles, as God's people and bride.

Also when the "Spirit and the Bride say come" (Revelation 22:17), this is not saying only the Spirit along with the Jews will say 'come', for Jesus in the verse before this says this message is "for the chruches" (vs. 16).

On top of all this is a proper understanding of the Holy Spirit promise given us. In Ephesians 1:14 where it says the Holy Spirit is a down payment, or earnest, the Greek word is arrabon which is a payment or promise of payment that is by obligation to be followed up on in full. In modern day Greek that same word means engagement/wedding ring, as in a token and promise of marriage via betrothal that will culminate in matrimony (also in a sense it is a dowry), and this is our future hope, that we will one day be betrothed and joined to Christ. And the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in us now is the promise and assurance that God will follow up on fully reconciling us to Him.


And, I agree completely, Revelation has to do with Israel and the nations, not the Church/Body of Christ.

I disagree. The 7 Churches were not Jewish Churches but rather Gentile. Also that it was shown (revealed) under the New Covenant dispensation makes it obviously a message for the Church, including Jews and the prophetic promises given to them. Revelation is the cullmination of all God's promises to both Jew and Gentile.

God Bless,

~Josh
 
JOSH WROTE:
Christ must have two brides then, since Paul says to the Church: "For I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy; for I betrothed you to one husband, so that to Christ I might present you as a pure virgin" (2 Corinthians 11:2).

And also:

"So then, if while her husband is living she is joined to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is not an adulteress though she is joined to another man.
Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God." (Romans 7:3-4)

MY COMMENTS: While this subject is not a doctrinal issue, it is something I searched out and came to my conslusions....certainly subject to change, if the Scriptures warrant.

The first and most important premise is: the future of the church/body of Christ will be in the heavenlies as heirs of God and joint-heirs with Christ. We will be enjoying the spiritual blessings in the heavenlies prepared by God, and witnessing to the principalities and powers in the heavenlies, the manifold wisdom of God. And this will be for the ages to come.

From Ephesians, KJV:

1:3) "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ.

2:5-7) "Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus; that in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus."

3:9-10) "And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all all things by Jesus Christ: to the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God."

While these statements are in past tense, it is the Hebrew way of expressing future events.

You may ask 'why did I go to this trouble?' It is to show the church/body of Christ will be active in the heavenlies in the two ages to come; they won't be on the earth where the marriage of the Lamb takes place. Therefore, the bride must be Jewish/proselyte believers during Christ earthly ministry, and after wards, even until the end of this age, the end of the tribulation when Messiah Jesus returns to earth to defeat his enemies and rescue Israel.

Looking at 2 Cor.11:2: We are all aware that metaphors, figures of speech are used throughout the Bible, and, to me, in this verse Paul is using a metaphor. Even the word in the Greek for "espoused" is not the normal Greek word, but is "harmozomai" = "to be fitted together", from which we get the word "harmony." And the Greek word for "husband" is "aner" which is also the word for "man."
At any rate, if this description is to be taken literally, then we must consider other expressions of Paul.

In Galatians 4:19, Paul writes, "My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you." Here, the church in Galatians are Paul's children and he is having birth pangs again until Christ be formed in them." Here, we read, Paul gave birth to the church.
LITERAL OR FIGURATIVE?

Is Timothy literally Paul's son? For in 1 Cor.4:17 we read, "For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son...."

Finally, the church/body is reckoned a son, that we might be an heir: "And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into you hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Wherefore thou art not more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ." Gal.4:6-7.

NOW, it is a fact of Scripture, that brides were never heirs, only sons.

CONSIDER: In John 3:29, John the baptizer declares, "He who has the bride is the bridegroom; the friend of the bridegroom, who stands and hears him, rejoices greatly at the bridegroom's voice; therefore this joy of mine is now full."
Here, John must have been seeing the bride (Jesus' followers) when he said this.

Again, I would say, Revelation has to do with only Israel and the nations, for the church/body will have been raptured to the heavenlies before the time of God's wrath, the tribulation.

For further study, a literal translation is most helpful, such as Young's or Rotherham's or the Concordant NT.

In Rev. 1:1, the usual version has John writing about "things which must SHORTLY come to pass."

But, from the Greek, it should be "things which must QUICKLY come to pass." Check it out in any Greek-English interlinear NT. From the same Greek, the other places in Revelation translated "Quickly" are 2:5; 2:16; 3:11; 11:14; 22:7; 22:12; and 22:20.

In 1:10, John was "in spirit, in the Lord's day," which is the Day of the Lord, as prophecied. John is saying "the Lord's day" because he was now in "the day".

As for the seven churches (ecclesias): if one checks out the promises and the curses, one will find that they don't match up with the church/bodies standing in Christ.
They align themselves chronologically with seven periods of Israel's history.

An enlightening commentary by Dr. E.W. Bullinger can be found at this link:
http://philologos.org/__eb-ta/default.htm

All for now, Bick
 
Let me try this method.

"And Judas went out and hung himself."

"And Jesus said go do thou likewise."
 
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