[_ Old Earth _] God: The first cause of the universe

[John]

The laws of logic demand that every known effect must result from a previous cause. The ancient romans created a maxim that included the natural conclusion of logic Ex nihilo nihil fit " Nothing comes from nothing"
The universe must have been created by God---an eternal supernatural being existing outside both time and space. Everything that exists must be the result of a previous cause. It is obvious to any serious thinking person that there cannot be an infinite series of causes. Initaly, logic demands that there must be a first Cause. The first cause itself was not caused by anything else. That first cause, by logical necessity is God, who exists eternally outside of time and the universe. Atheists sometimes ask : then who created god ? the answer is that no one created God. God is an uncreated eternal being outside time and space, with out a beginning or end.

Lift up your eyes on high, and behold who hath created these things that bringeth out their host by number: he calleth them all by names by the greatness of his might, for that he is strong in power; not one faileth Isaiah 40:26

 

[Deep Thought]

It's a great cop out to claim that god is simply outside the rules of the universe and time.

 

[John]

It's a great cop out to claim that god is simply outside the rules of the universe and time.

Is that your only standing defense ? weak... 8-)

 

[jwu]

It's a great cop out to claim that god is simply outside the rules of the universe and time.

Is that your only standing defense ? weak... 8-)

Pointint out the logical fallacy of special pleading is quite efficient actually. If you want an exception for God from your own line of reasoning, then you need to justify it.

 

[Patashu]

I hate this argument. Basically it goes:

1. The universe must have had a first cause.
2. Let's give it a name. Call it 'God'.
3. Therefore the being named God must have caused the universe.

The problem is that the name in the second step is arbitrary; substituting anything else in will 'prove' that God did not cause the universe. Call the first cause of the universe God but be aware that this does not give you authority to prescribe qualities to it that another entity with the same name does.

And another thing. Why do you say that 'everything must have a cause' but then contradict yourself by positing something that does not have a cause? Either everything must have a cause and 'God' must have a cause or everything doesn't have to have a cause.

Also, what if the universe had a cause, then something caused that cause then it stopped THERE? How is that any more or less feasible?

 

[John]

When we explain to an atheist that it is impossible that the universe came into existence without a first cause--namely, God---they often reply "but who created God?" To this we answer, "God is a supernatural being existing outside the limitations of time and space in our universe." Obviously, nothing that exists within our universe of time and space could possibly create that universe.

To our claim that "nothing comes from nothing," an atheist often reply s that we claim God comes from nothing. However, this is not true. The bible does not claim that God came from nothing. The word of God declares that God has always existed, that He is an eternally existing being, without beginning or end. King David proclaimed the eternal nature of God: "Before the mountains were brought forth, or even thou hadst formed the Earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God" Psalm 90:2

The remarkable scientific discovery's during the last hundred years have proven that our universe had a definite beginning at the moment of creation and therefore, time, space, energy and matter all began at some definite point in the distant past as the Bible declared: "In the beginning god created the heavens and the earth" Genesis 1:1. Since time itself began at creation, we know that time cannot be infinite. Therefore, we can logically conclude that our universe, which exists in time, must have been created by God, who exists outside of the limitations of time and space.

The Bible has only one statement regarding those who maintain there is no God despite the overwhelming evidence that exists to anyone who is willing to consider it. King David wrote,

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good Psalm 14:1.