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Good and Bad Shepherds

CherubRam

Judaic Christian
Member
Isaiah 31:4
This is what the Lord says to me: “As a lion growls, a great lion over its prey— and though a whole band of shepherds is called together against it, it is not frightened by their shouts or disturbed by their clamor— so the Lord Almighty will come down to do battle on Mount Zion and on its heights.

Isaiah 56:11
They are dogs with mighty appetites; they never have enough. They are shepherds who lack understanding; they all turn to their own way, they seek their own gain.

Jeremiah 3:15
Then I will give you shepherds after my own heart, who will lead you with knowledge and understanding.

Jeremiah 6:3
Shepherds with their flocks will come against her; they will pitch their tents around her, each tending his own portion.”

Jeremiah 10:21
The shepherds are senseless and do not inquire of the Lord; so they do not prosper and all their flock is scattered.

Jeremiah 12:10
Many shepherds will ruin my vineyard and trample down my field; they will turn my (pleasant field / the earth) into a desolate wasteland.

Jeremiah 22:22
The wind will drive all your shepherds away, and your allies will go into exile. Then you will be ashamed and disgraced because of all your wickedness.

Jeremiah 23:1
“Woe to the shepherds who are destroying and scattering the sheep of my pasture!” declares the Lord.

Jeremiah 23:2
Therefore this is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says to the shepherds who tend my people: “Because you have scattered my flock and driven them away and have not bestowed care on them, I will bestow punishment on you for the evil you have done,” declares the Lord.

Jeremiah 23:4
I will place shepherds over them who will tend them, and they will no longer be afraid or terrified, nor will any be missing,” declares the Lord.

Jeremiah 25:34
Weep and wail, you shepherds; roll in the dust, you leaders of the flock. For your time to be slaughtered has come; you will fall like the best of the rams.

Jeremiah 25:35
The shepherds will have nowhere to flee, the leaders of the flock no place to escape.

Jeremiah 25:36
Hear the cry of the shepherds, the wailing of the leaders of the flock, for the Lord is destroying their pasture.


Jeremiah 50:6
My people have been lost sheep; their shepherds have led them astray and caused them to roam on the mountains. They wandered over mountain and hill and forgot their own resting place.

Ezekiel 34:2
“Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel; prophesy and say to them: ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: Woe to you shepherds of Israel who only take care of yourselves! Should not shepherds take care of the flock?

Ezekiel 34:7
“‘Therefore, you shepherds, hear the word of the Lord:

Ezekiel 34:8
As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, because my flock lacks a shepherd and so has been plundered and has become food for all the wild animals, and because my shepherds did not search for my flock but cared for themselves rather than for my flock,

Ezekiel 34:9
therefore, you shepherds, hear the word of the Lord:

Ezekiel 34:10
This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I am against the shepherds and will hold them accountable for my flock. I will remove them from tending the flock so that the shepherds can no longer feed themselves. I will rescue my flock from their mouths, and it will no longer be food for them.

Amos 1:2
He said: “The Lord roars from Zion and thunders from Jerusalem; the pastures of the shepherds dry up, and the top of Carmel withers.”

Micah 5:5
And he will be our peace when the Assyrians invade our land and march through our fortresses. We will raise against them seven shepherds, even eight commanders,

Zechariah 10:3
My anger burns against the shepherds, and I will punish the leaders; for the Lord Almighty will care for his flock, the people of Judah, and make them like a proud horse in battle.

Zechariah 11:3
Listen to the wail of the shepherds; their rich pastures are destroyed! Listen to the roar of the lions; the lush thicket of the Jordan is ruined!

Zechariah 11:4
This is what the Lord my God says: “Shepherd the flock marked for slaughter.

Zechariah 11:5
Their buyers slaughter them and go unpunished. Those who sell them say, ‘Praise the Lord, I am rich!’ Their own shepherds do not spare them.

Zechariah 11:8
In one month I got rid of the three shepherds. The flock detested me, and I grew weary of them

Acts 20:28
Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the (church / congregation) of God, which he bought with his own blood.

1 Peter 5:2
Be shepherds of God’s flock that is under your care, watching over them—not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be; not pursuing dishonest gain, but eager to serve;

Jude 1:12
These people are blemishes at your feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualm—shepherds who feed only themselves. They are clouds without rain, blown along by the wind; autumn trees, without fruit and uprooted—twice dead.

Revelation 1:19-20.
“Write, therefore, what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later. The mystery of the Seven Stars that you saw in my right hand and of the Seven Golden Lampsticks is this: The Seven Stars are the messengers of the Seven Congregations, and the Seven Lampsticks are the Seven Congregations.
 
As I've stated before, simply posting passages from scripture is not helpful for discussion. You need to explain why you are posting them and/or ask a question so that there can be discussion.
 
What should the shepherd do ? Jesus leaves no doubt in John 17 . Feed my sheep . Do you know that CherubRam ?

14 This is now the third time that Jesus shewed himself to his disciples, after that he was risen from the dead.
15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.
16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
 
As I've stated before, simply posting passages from scripture is not helpful for discussion. You need to explain why you are posting them and/or ask a question so that there can be discussion.

We had an SDA do this at another forum all the time. It was a combination of thread bombing and scripture bombing, which created dozens of these massive threads no one ever read. So nearly everybody mostly just ignored him. It's highly counterproductive, IMO, and I haven't actually read this OP either like I haven't read most of CherubRam's threads. I went straight to your post.

The other thing you will notice is... well there's several things, Lol, but I think it's primarily an over attempt to show the "scriptural basis" for their church's doctrines, but if you get ignored and checked at the door for posted nine miles of stuff no one cares about or has any desire to read, you would think that message would sink in. But it doesn't for some reason.
 
What should the shepherd do ? Jesus leaves no doubt in John 17 . Feed my sheep . Do you know that CherubRam ?

14 This is now the third time that Jesus shewed himself to his disciples, after that he was risen from the dead.
15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.
16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

Now here's a post I can read, Lol.

Funny how two people can quote scripture and one communicates a message yet the other doesn't, but I think it has to do primarily with the Spirit and with the intent.
 
Now here's a post I can read, Lol.

Funny how two people can quote scripture and one communicates a message yet the other doesn't, but I think it has to do primarily with the Spirit and with the intent.
I am not very verbal because I only want to speak to Christians. If my post baffle you, then they are not for you. Only true Christians would have a clue as to what is being said.
 
As I've stated before, simply posting passages from scripture is not helpful for discussion. You need to explain why you are posting them and/or ask a question so that there can be discussion.
The title says, Good and Bad Shepherds. The bold print in the verse are topics that can be discussed.
 
Isaiah 31:4
This is what the Lord says to me: “As a lion growls, a great lion over its prey— and though a whole band of shepherds is called together against it, it is not frightened by their shouts or disturbed by their clamor— so the Lord Almighty will come down to do battle on Mount Zion and on its heights.

Example; who is "Mount Zion?"


Armageddon or Harmagedon: Revelations 16:16. "and in the Hebrew language it is called Armageddon."

There is no word "Armageddon" in the Hebrew language; the word Armageddon is a contraction and mistranslation for the words,"Mount of the Congregation Zion".

Ar / ma / ged / don. Also: Har / ma / ged / on.

Har / edah / siyyon.

Har: Mount or Mountain.
Edah or Mowed: Assembly, Community or Congregation.
Siyyon: Zion.

Revelations 16:13-16. And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and that beast, and out of the mouth of a false prophet.
14. For they have evil spirits, working miracles for the rulers of the earth and the whole world, to gather them togather to do battle against God Almighty on that great day.
15. Watch, I come like a thief. Blessed is he that keeps watch, and keeps his cloths, or else he will walk naked, and people will see his shame.
16. And they gathered them together to that place, and in the Hebrew language it is called; Mount of the Congregation Zion.

Isaiah 29:8. So will it be with the hordes of all the nations that fight against Mount Zion.

Proverbs 9:1.
Wisdom has built her house; she has hewn out its seven pillars.

Revelations 3:12.
Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God.

Zechariah 3:9. There are seven eyes on that one stone,...

Zechariah 4:10. These seven are the eyes of the lord,...

Revelations 5:6. He had seven horns and seven eyes,...

Daniel 12:3. Those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars...

Revelations 1:20. The mystery of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand and of the seven golden lamps is this: The seven stars are the angels (messengers of God) of the seven churches, (congregations)...

Zechariah 3:8. Listen O high priest of Joshua / Yahshua and your associates seated before you, who are men symbolic of things to come; I am going to bring my servant, the Branch. (Yahshua)

And so, where are they? Who are these seven different churches [congregations] and the seven messengers? When the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?


It is a presumption by some scholars, and not a fact, that Megiddo is a battlefield described in the Bible, in relationship to Revelation 16:16, as a place of a predicted final struggle between good and evil. Some believe that the name may be taken from that of the battlefield of Megiddo valley. See Judges 5:19.

The word "Megiddo" appears in scripture twelve times, and never with the word "Har" for (Mount) in front of it. The word "Megiddon" is a King James translation in the Old Testament only; and in Revelation 16:16, the King James uses the word spelling "Armageddon". The Valley of Megiddo and Armageddon have no biblical relationship.

King James Version: Zechariah 12:9-11.
9. And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
10. And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications; and they shall look upon me / him whom they have pierced, and they will mourn for him, as one mourns for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
11. In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as (Like) the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.

Zion is not only the faithful in Israel and the world, but it is also a city in the last days according to scripture.
There is a great deal of scripture to support what I claim, with the word "Zion." However, there is no scripture to support that the valley of Megiddo is a gathering place for Zion.
 
I am not very verbal because I only want to speak to Christians. If my post baffle you, then they are not for you. Only true Christians would have a clue as to what is being said.

No, that's nonsense. What's going on is actually a combination of things:

1. You are not a very good communicator, as you just admitted yourself above.
2. You tend to be inconsiderate of others, which may explain why you are not even attempting to be.
3. You teach false doctrines, so there is this tendency to scripture bomb instead of actually present a teaching.

Can't you see that none of that is working here? I mean, if you want to post that sort of thing at a Jehovahs Witness community maybe it might, but as far as accomplishing much of anything here, who is it that you assume you are reaching? The only three respondents you've gotten so far have all pretty much told you the same thing, yet you are not listening, and it's because none of us are Christians in your opinion. Take a closer look and see if the problem isn't actually with you.
 
No, that's nonsense. What's going on is actually a combination of things:

1. You are not a very good communicator, as you just admitted yourself above.
2. You tend to be inconsiderate of others, which may explain why you are not even attempting to be.
3. You teach false doctrines, so there is this tendency to scripture bomb instead of actually present a teaching.

Can't you see that none of that is working here? I mean, if you want to post that sort of thing at a Jehovahs Witness community maybe it might, but as far as accomplishing much of anything here, who is it that you assume you are reaching? The only three respondents you've gotten so far have all pretty much told you the same thing, yet you are not listening, and it's because none of us are Christians in your opinion. Take a closer look and see if the problem isn't actually with you.
Smart people are smart because they ask questions. Who is Mount Zion? And when you study doctrinal issue, do you only study what you want to hear? Yes you do.

A person can not come to the truth unless they understand fully both sides of the issue.
 
A person can not come to the truth unless they understand fully both sides of the issue.

Well this much we agree on.
And when you study doctrinal issue, do you only study what you want to hear? Yes you do.

How do you know you're not projecting here? When we were discussing how Jude 1:9 was supposedly a "Gnostic insertion," you gave no proof that the Assumption of Moses was a Gnostic document, and yet you moved on from it like it wasn't important to you whether you could actually support what you were saying or not.

That seems to me like proof that the opposite is going on. You only want to hear your view, and if anything contradicts it you simply ignore it and move on.

You are doing the same thing here.
 
Well this much we agree on.


How do you know you're not projecting here? When we were discussing how Jude 1:9 was supposedly a "Gnostic insertion," you gave no proof that the Assumption of Moses was a Gnostic document, and yet you moved on from it like it wasn't important to you whether you could actually support what you were saying or not.

That seems to me like proof that the opposite is going on. You only want to hear your view, and if anything contradicts it you simply ignore it and move on.

You are doing the same thing here.

Holman Bible Dictionary​

Quote: Jude 1:9 refers to a dispute between the devil and Michael over Moses' body. According to Origin (A.D. 185? to 254?), this account formed part of the extra-biblical work, The Assumption of Moses . The incident is not mentioned in the surviving fragments of this work. See Angel .


Moses ascended.

Matthew 17:3
Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.

Matthew 17:4
Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here. If you wish, I will put up three shelters—one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah.”

2 Kings 2:1
Elijah
Taken Up to Heaven
When the Lord was about to take Elijah up to heaven in a whirlwind, Elijah and Elisha were on their way from Gilgal.
 
Orthodox Jews do not believe in Angels. Yahshua and the Disciples were Orthodox Jews. Also, Orthodox do not believe in Hell either.

Jude 9 commentary

Source:
Bible Gateway

The dispute mentioned between the Archangel Michael and the Devil does not suit itself to the doctrinal views of the Sadducees since they denied the existence of angels. (Acts 23:8 states this clearly).

Jude 1
9 Jude is alluding to the Jewish Testament of Moses (approximately the first century AD.)
Also known as: The Assumption of Moses

The testament of Moses or"The Assumption of Moses" is a known Gnostic writing.

Holman Bible Dictionary
Jude 1:9 refers to a dispute between the devil and Michael over Moses' body. According to Origin (A.D. 185? to 254?), this account formed part of the extra-biblical work, The Assumption of Moses . The incident is not mentioned in the surviving fragments of this work.

In regards to verse nine in the Book of Jude:
Chrysostom and Jerome mention Jude's quoting from a non-canonical sources as the reason it being disputed by some as canonical.
 
Well this much we agree on.


How do you know you're not projecting here? When we were discussing how Jude 1:9 was supposedly a "Gnostic insertion," you gave no proof that the Assumption of Moses was a Gnostic document, and yet you moved on from it like it wasn't important to you whether you could actually support what you were saying or not.

That seems to me like proof that the opposite is going on. You only want to hear your view, and if anything contradicts it you simply ignore it and move on.

You are doing the same thing here.
Who is Mount Zion?
 
Orthodox Jews do not believe in Angels. Yahshua and the Disciples were Orthodox Jews. Also, Orthodox do not believe in Hell either.

Jude 9 commentary

Source:
Bible Gateway

The dispute mentioned between the Archangel Michael and the Devil does not suit itself to the doctrinal views of the Sadducees since they denied the existence of angels. (Acts 23:8 states this clearly).

Jude 1
9 Jude is alluding to the Jewish Testament of Moses (approximately the first century AD.)
Also known as: The Assumption of Moses

The testament of Moses or"The Assumption of Moses" is a known Gnostic writing.

Holman Bible Dictionary
Jude 1:9 refers to a dispute between the devil and Michael over Moses' body. According to Origin (A.D. 185? to 254?), this account formed part of the extra-biblical work, The Assumption of Moses . The incident is not mentioned in the surviving fragments of this work.

In regards to verse nine in the Book of Jude:
Chrysostom and Jerome mention Jude's quoting from a non-canonical sources as the reason it being disputed by some as canonical.

And this is why attempting to have any serious discussion with you is hopeless, Lol. There is ZERO mention in Bible Gateway or any other source you quoted which states "The Assumption of Moses is known as a Gnostic writing." That is YOU inserting that nonsense to make it look like it's supported when in fact you are just playing games with me to support your quack theology.

The closest Gateway comes is the note to the NIV translation which states:

Jude 9​

New International Version​

9 But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”[a]
Read full chapter

Footnotes​

  1. Jude 1:9 Jude is alluding to the Jewish Testament of Moses (approximately the first century a.d.).
_______

There is NOTHING in your post that says anything about Gnosticism other than what you YET AGAIN added yourself. You are playing games with me as usual, and all while telling me I'm not "smart" enough to get your nonsense.

I'm warning you again, this is DELIBERATELY mishandling the word of God deceitfully to endorse heresy, and if you keep doing it you are going to suffer judgment for it some day. You are not simply deceived, you are deliberately deceiving others, and it's going to come back on you if you don't repent of it.
 
Jeremiah 25:34
Weep and wail, you shepherds; roll in the dust, you leaders of the flock. For your time to be slaughtered has come; you will fall like the best of the rams.

Jeremiah 25:35
The shepherds will have nowhere to flee, the leaders of the flock no place to escape.

You are a witness against yourself, and you will answer for it.

You will fall like the best of the rams, "CherubRam" (Jeremiah 25:34)
 
You are a witness against yourself, and you will answer for it.

You will fall like the best of the rams, "CherubRam" (Jeremiah 25:34)

Assumption of Moses is a banned book.​

Quote: Another 'Assumption of Moses'​

Another fragmentary Assumption of Moses is preserved in the Midrash Bereshit Rabbati of Rabbi Moses ha-Darshan (eleventh century), in a manuscript kept in the library of the Jewish congregation in Prague. The following is a synopsis of its contents:

As the time for Moses' death approached, God permitted him to ascend into heaven,...

 
What should the shepherd do ? Jesus leaves no doubt in John 17 . Feed my sheep . Do you know that CherubRam ?

Jesus would not recommend anyone to be a shepherd since we have Jesus' direct teaching written in the Bible.

Bible is available to anyone who is interested in knowing the Truth in this world.
 
Jesus would not recommend anyone to be a shepherd since we have Jesus' direct teaching written in the Bible.

Bible is available to anyone who is interested in knowing the Truth in this world.
What did Jesus tell Peter ? 🐑
 
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