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Hey Pizza

Lewis

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Hey Pizza, I am sitting here watching a documentary on John Denver who along with Patsy Cline were my favorite country singers. But anyway I was wondering if John could have glided to the shore take a look at the below article and tell me what you think. I sure miss John.


A Long-EZ two-seat canard plane similar to Denver's

Death
On October 12, 1997, Denver was killed at the age of 53 when his experimental Rutan Long-EZ plane, aircraft registration number N555JD, crashed into Monterey Bay near Pacific Grove, California, while making a series of touch-and-go landings at the nearby Monterey Peninsula Airport.[38] The National Transportation Safety Board's (NTSB) accident ID is LAX98FA008.[39] Denver was the only occupant of the aircraft. As the crash badly disfigured Denver's head and body, making identification by dental records impossible, records of his fingerprints were used to confirm that the fallen pilot was indeed the singer.[40][41]

A pilot with over 2,700 hours of experience, Denver had pilot license ratings for single-engine land and sea, multi-engine land, glider, and instrument. He also held a type rating in his Learjet. He had recently purchased the Long-EZ aircraft and had taken a half-hour checkout flight with the aircraft the day before the accident.[42][43]

In 1996, nearly a year before the accident, the Federal Aviation Administration had learned of Denver's failure to abstain entirely from alcohol after his drunk driving arrests and had previously revoked his medical certification.[35][36] Since Denver was required by the FAA to have at least a third-class medical certification to exercise the privileges of his pilot certificate, he was not legally permitted to fly at the time of the accident. However, there was no trace of alcohol or other drugs in Denver's body at autopsy.[36]

Post-accident investigation by the NTSB showed that the leading cause of the accident was Denver's inability to execute safely a switch of fuel tanks in flight. The quantity of fuel had been depleted during the plane's transfer to Monterey and in several brief practice takeoffs and landings performed by Denver at the airport immediately prior to the final flight. His newly purchased experimental Rutan had an unusual fuel selector valve handle configuration. Intended by the plane's designer to be located between the pilot's legs, the fuel selector had instead been placed by the plane's builder behind the left shoulder of the pilot, with the fuel gauge also behind the pilot's seat and thus not visible to the person at the controls.[35][36] An NTSB interview with the aircraft mechanic servicing Denver's plane revealed that he and Denver had discussed the inaccessibility of the cockpit fuel selector valve handle and its resistance to being turned.[35][36]

Before the flight, Denver and the mechanic had attempted to extend the reach of the handle, using a pair of Vise-Grip pliers.[35][36] However, this did not solve the problem, as the pilot could still not reach the handle while strapped into his seat.[35][36] NTSB investigators' post-accident investigation showed that given the positioning of the fuel selector valves, switching the craft's fuel tanks required a pilot to turn his body 90 degrees to reach the valve. This created a natural tendency to extend one's right foot against the right rudder pedal to support oneself while turning in the seat, causing the aircraft to yaw (move off course) and pitch up.[35][36]

According to the mechanic, after he had noted to Denver that the fuel sight gauges were visible only to the rear cockpit occupant, Denver asked him about the quantity of fuel shown.[35][36] The mechanic told Denver that he had "less than half in the right tank and less than a quarter in the left tank".[35][36] The mechanic then provided Denver with an inspection mirror so that he could look over his shoulder at the fuel sight gauges; the mirror was later recovered in the wreckage.[35][36] Denver told the mechanic that he would use the autopilot inflight, if necessary, to hold the airplane level while he turned the fuel selector valve.[35][36] Denver declined an offer to take on additional fuel, telling the mechanic that he would only be flying for about one hour.[35][36]

The NTSB interviewed 20 witnesses of Denver's last flight; six of them had observed the plane's crash into the ocean near Point Pinos.[35][36] Four of the witnesses indicated that the airplane was originally heading west; five of them observed the airplane in a steep bank, with four of those five reporting the bank was to the right (north). Twelve witnesses saw the airplane in a steep nose-down descent. Witnesses estimated the plane's height at 350 to 500 feet while heading toward the shoreline. Eight of the witnesses said that they heard a "pop" or "backfire", along with a reduction in the engine noise level just before the airplane descended into the water.

The NTSB determined that, in addition to Denver's failure to refuel the plane prior to takeoff and his subsequent loss of control while attempting to switch fuel tanks, there were several key contributing factors. Primary among these were the pilot's inadequate transition training on this type of aircraft and the plane's builder's decision to locate the unmarked fuel selector handle in a hard-to-access position.[35][36] Subsequent to its investigation, the board issued its recommendations regarding the requirement and enforcement of mandatory training standards for pilots engaged in operating experimental aircraft. The board also emphasized the importance of mandatory ease of access of all controls, including fuel selectors and fuel gauges, in all aircraft.
 
I have to talk to some pilot friends, but I believe the answer would be "No, he was too low for the distance back to shore. However, had he simply ran out of fuel and glided to the water, altho the plane would have been lost, a water landing would have been most likely survivable for the pilot."

I will ask and let you know.
 
Thanks Pizza. Now that switch being in back of him was a problem and I want to know why that stupid guy made that plane that way.
 
Thanks Pizza. Now that switch being in back of him was a problem and I want to know why that stupid guy made that plane that way.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$, the engineer probably was told to do that to save money. it happens in cars.
 
I got two answers:

Apparently, John Denver's aircraft was a home-built, and the guy who built it was tall enough that he could reach the tank valve in-flight easily; John Denver was shorter, and couldn't reach. The company that made the fuel valve in question stopped producing them, and IIRC, went out of business because of the ensuing legal shenanigans. Not sure how the valve placement in an aircraft they didn't build was their fault, but the US is the shyster capital of the known universe, after all.


My 1947 Stinson's original fuel valve was apparently the same manufacturer/model of fuel valve; when the handle detent on mine finally wore out (after 62 years of service), I had to replace the entire valve assembly with an approved replacement, from another manufacturer, because I couldn't get (or legally use) the OEM item any more.

Edit: Design flaw? Arguably, but only in the valve's placement, not in its function. And it's very bad practice to be switching fuel tanks at low altitude, which apparently what JD did - nevermind any in-cockpit gymnastics, a valve failure, or even introducing air into the fuel system from the newly selected tank, can cause the deafening silence at too low an altitude to do much but fly to the impromptu landing strip (that you already had previously selected just in case, right?).



And....

I don't think that in Denver's mind trying to make a glide to shore was an option. The plane was not out of fuel. He had a full reserve tank and still had "fumes" in the main tank. He was trying to reach the lever to switch between main and reserve tanks, that was located behind the pilot's seat requiring the pilot to turn his upper body while keeping the stick steady, good luck with that, he didn't and winged over into the drink. If he had decided at that point to land the plane on the beach instead of switching fuel tanks he probably still would have had enough to make it "feet dry" or very close. He was no more than a mile off shore, IIRC from what I read, and witnesses did not hear his engine stop before he banked into the sea.
 
I can't find the glide ratio of the Long-EZ anywhere. But most single engine light planes have glide ratios of 8:1 to 10:1 - thing is, Rutan did not build "typical" aircraft. One of his experimentals had a glide ratio of 32:1 !!!!!!!!!

I DOUBT, given the plane's configuration, it had enough to glide a mile with only 300-500 feet of altitude, because I don't think that plane had the glide ratio of even the typical plane - of course, I could be wrong and maybe it has a G/R of 15:1? I just cant find anything on it to say for sure. But according to my friends, he didnt run out of fuel anyway.
 
Thanks Pizza for that I thank you so much. Now below from the article, is what I was thinking. His right foot against that rudder, because he was turning his body, plus trying to keep that stick steady. And at 300 to 500 feet you don't have a lot of room.

Investigators' post-accident investigation showed that given the positioning of the fuel selector valves, switching the craft's fuel tanks required a pilot to turn his body 90 degrees to reach the valve. This created a natural tendency to extend one's right foot against the right rudder pedal to support oneself while turning in the seat, causing the aircraft to yaw (move off course) and pitch up
 
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