How do I help my friend?

[ZeroTX]

Hi guys,

I have a friend, a very close friend, who is (for the most part) openly gay. He has had relationships with men in the past, though he has "abstained" (somewhat his choice, somewhat not) for the past 3 years or so. I've known him since the 6th grade, which is how we ended up such good friends. For the past 5 years he rented a room from me in my house, which we essentially shared 50/50. We went through school together, lived in the same house for several of our adult years and share many interests that have kept us friends (music, cars, etc). I greatly value him as a friend and I'm interested in his future well-being.

This year, I got married and my friend had to find his own place. Due to this and many other things, he has gone into a state of depression, I believe, because his life is relatively devoid of purpose. He has never been highly religious, though he attended a Baptist church with his mom when he was growing up. To my knowledge, his dad never went to church and is, in fact, a leader in the Freemasons (which, as best I can tell, goes against Christian beliefs according to most Christians, including Baptists and Catholics, which makes up most Christians in America). He has made snide commentary regarding me and my wife's devotion to our faith in the past, and seems to find getting up for church on Sunday to be a waste of his time. When I was going to a non-denominational protestant church (one that is admittedly very "entertaining"), he expressed moderate interest and attended on a couple of occasions with me. Since going to more traditional churches (Lutheran at one point and now Catholic), he seems to hold a fair amount of disdain for it, as he doesn't "get anything out of it" and it doesn't interest him.

This, I believe, is because he needs to develop his spiritual relationship with God, but I don't know how to suggest this to him. I don't really expect him to become Catholic necessarily, but I would love to see him reconnecting with his spirituality at a Baptist or non-denominational church.

The problem is obvious... he's openly gay. He cannot reconcile that with what orthodox Christianity teaches (for also obvious Scriptural reasons), and thus he feels dejected from Christianity.

I am torn as to how to get him to get God into his life. His life would be so full if he would turn to God. Would I be wrong to recommend he attend a "gay friendly" church? While I don't agree with their liberal theology, isn't that better than him being unchurched and lost in life? Might it be the beginning, the first step, to reconciling with God and rejecting the gay lifestyle? Could he ever accept that he must either "turn straight" (something I do not believe is physiologically possible) or become fully celibate?... The gay culture is 100% about sex... sex sex sex, so the very idea of never having it again would be a hard sell to him. If he goes to a liberal church that accepts the gay lifestyle, what message would that send about his spiritual development?

I'm torn, as I want him to get back to church and grow closer to God. At the same time, I don't want him to get into a situation where his church encourages the very sin that he may be living. While he is not actively with another man right now, he is constantly seeking one... as such, the inevitable will happen, so what of a church that says this is "OK"?...

My thought is to trust in the Holy Spirit to speak to his heart and simply get him into a Christ-centered church, even if it is liberal... Perhaps the ridiculous irony will present itself the first time he sees two men holding hands in church... how they don't go together... and WHY they don't go together....

I just want to help my friend... Just like my family and my wife, I want to see my friends in heaven and I want them to live happy lives for God, not dismal lives in search of carnal pleasures.

Thank you,

Michael

 

[lovely]

Michael,

It sounds to me as if you, and your wife, are the strongest lights in his life. It seems to me that your hospitality, and love, and willingness to share truth with him is God's best. Jesus is his hope, to be sure, but he must want to be born again and receive hope. No church can make that happen, any more than having dinner with you, and your, wife once a week and sharing the Word together, or a scripture of encouragement sent in a card every once in a while, or other such hospitable acts. Gathering at church is a time of worship for believers, but you, and your wife, ARE the church, and commanded as believers to share the Gospel, and you can share your light brightly because you are so close with him. The Spirit can give you natural opportunity to share the Gospel in a genuine way. I hope this helps, and I will pray that your family has opportunity to share with your friend, and I will pray that God causes Him to receive it. The Lord bless you.

 

[Quath]

It sounds very good that you see him as a friend and want for him to find happiness. Sending him to a place that will just call him a horrible sinner probably won't help with his depression. I would suggest therapy or talking to him about the issues. Maybe he feels he is losing you as a friend to your wife? Maybe he is just feeling lonely because he does not have a significant other? I don't think the church will help him in these areas.

I get confused about the heaven stuff. Do you believe you will be just as happy in heaven if your friend is there or not? If so, what does it really matter?

 

[stovebolts]

Hey Michael,

Thanks for posting and I realize your dilemma… You’re in a tough spot, but one that I know you’ll shine through because you have shown great compassion for your friend.

The story of Cain and Able has much to share with us. I hope you find this helpful.
NetBible
Genesis 4:3 At the designated time Cain brought some of the fruit of the ground for an offering to the Lord. 4:4 But Abel brought some of the firstborn of his flock – even the fattest of them. And the Lord was pleased with Abel and his offering, 4:5 but with Cain and his offering he was not pleased. So Cain became very angry, and his expression was downcast.

It sounds to me like Cain was just a little depressed. He cheated God by not doing what he was supposed to do. Notice our reactions. First, we usually become angry, and then we become depressed.

4:6 Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry, and why is your expression downcast? 4:7 Is it not true that if you do what is right, you will be fine? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at the door. It desires to dominate you, but you must subdue it.â€Â

So how do we make this jump from doing what we know is wrong, to doing what is right? First, it’s helpful to find value in changing our ways and this can be difficult because out of all the demons that can haunt us, our reflection in the mirror can often be the scariest and most difficult. Your friend says that he’s gay. Perhaps it’s genetic; perhaps it’s a learned response. It doesn’t really matter because in the scope of things, most often is how we respond to a situation that counts. Your friend is a living soul that Jesus cares very much about.

Which brings me back to your question… what can you do? You can continue to be a good neighbor to your friend. He has been kicked and beaten by Satan and left by the side of the road and it sounds like the teachers have already walked by on the other side of the road. Let him know that you care about him. Stand firm in scripture, but allow him to discover this through your kindness and genuine acceptance of who he is. Be patient, this is bigger than religion. I know that the Lord will give you the right words to say when you speak to your friend. When he wants to argue with you about religion, let him be right and bite your tongue if need be as he tests your true friendship. Chances are, he thinks were all a bunch of hypocrites and you responding back in anger will just confirm his belief. If you respond in a defensive manner, he will push back. Nobody likes to be wrong. If you respond in a submissive manner, you’ll take the wind out of his sail and he may even find that he can trust talking to you about deep things that are bugging him. This just may be the first step for him coming to find the peace in Christ.
This will more than likely also open up what his inward issues are. You see, he will more than likely test your friendship as his depression turns upward to anger and becomes displaced upon you and your family. God will do the inside work, you just do the outside work.

As far as the gay churches, I don’t think it’s a good idea to point him in that direction. Remember, were trying to lift his head up, not keep it down. Try to get him to go to any church that you can get him to go to because at least it’s a step in the right direction and of course, I know that you will continue to pray for him.

I hope this helps you find the right direction.

Peace.

 

[destiny]

Hi ZreoTX,
Remember the word tells (us) to go and make disciples. We are the church.
Your life could be the only example of Jesus that your friend will ever get.
Sow seeds every chance you get, and live a life of Godly example before him.
You 'be' the church, and let your light shine in such a way that he'll want what you've got.
He has every right to be turned off with religion...so 'show' him what relationship with Jesus is all about.
This is your appointment as much as it is your friends.

PS >>>I have a friend who is homosexual, we have been friends since we were really young kids. We grew up together.
All I do is sow seeds every time I get the opportunity, and I try to be a godly example to her.
She calls me or comes by if she needs prayer or wants to talk about her problems, sometimes we just talk about things unrelated to God.
I am just a friend with no strings attached.
Don't get under pressure, just do what you can that will count for eternity as opportunity presents itself.

 

[Poke]

What if the friend were an alcoholic or a pedophile (let's assume no children have been harmed)? We would expect him to admit he has a problem and for him to seek counseling. The only thing that makes being a homosexual different is that society tells him that he doesn't have a problem.

 

[Quath]

What if the friend were an alcoholic or a pedophile (let's assume no children have been harmed)? We would expect him to admit he has a problem and for him to seek counseling. The only thing that makes being a homosexual different is that society tells him that he doesn't have a problem.

The difference is that you can point out the obvious harm or obvious potential harm in a secular manner. With homosexuality, all you can claim is that your version of God doesn't like it.

To claim that God is against two adults loving is like claiming that God doesn't want two people of different races to marry.... Oh wait... ;)

 

[ZeroTX]

To claim that God is against two adults loving is like claiming that God doesn't want two people of different races to marry.... Oh wait... ;)

Two people loving one another is entirely different than two people lusting after one another and defiling themselves with one another.

I don't think he's any more a sinner than I am. We are all sinners. The difference is, he believes that finding a same-sex partner to love, and later have sex with (sometimes sex coming before love, just FYI, homosexuals are substantially more promiscuous than heterosexuals - look up the stats). Modern society tells him this is okay, the church tells him it is wrong and that he should mend his ways, his family and some of his friends (not me) tell him "you have to do whatever makes you happy," so to him, he thinks that is find a male sex/love partner. Also FYI, he's never been happy in such a relationship, any more than the blissful carnal pleasure portion of the relationship lasts. Once that dries up and the "allure" goes away, they're not happy, because it's not natural and it's not the type of relationship that God wants for them.

I can't boldly tell my friend, "look, you're gay, but you have to stop persuing men, cut ties with your 'gay community' relations, etc, because God tells us this is wrong and it is not the right way to live." Great, then I'm the enemy.

I appreciate the advice so far.... I will try to continue to be an example to my friend and I will try to pass along my faith through example. I hope to try to increase his desire to want to build a relationship with Christ, to get himself "right" with what God wants or to at least have the sincere desire to do so. Right now, I don't believe he has that desire, and that's what, I believe, causes the despair and lack of direction in his life. He's aimlessly floating, seeking pleasures and goals that the secular world has told him he should be seeking and shouldn't be ashamed to be seeking. I sin, we all sin. But, I feel guilty about it and I know it's sinful and I must promise to God and myself to work to avoid it in the future. I wish he could be pointed out to things without seeing it as an attack on "who he is" etc.

This is still tough.

-Michael

 

[Quath]

Two people loving one another is entirely different than two people lusting after one another and defiling themselves with one another.

Are you against the promiscuity or against loving relationships? Just remember that Christians in the past were heavily against interracial marriages because they were sinning against God. Some Christians tried to make the case that God was ok with interracial relationships, but many Christians didn't agree and passed laws. There are many parallels today with that and homosexuality.

Also FYI, he's never been happy in such a relationship, any more than the blissful carnal pleasure portion of the relationship lasts.

I kind of doubt that. If you look at the whole relationship, it is full of ups and downs. I have had many past heterosexual relationships that had good momemts and bad moments. We broke up, so maybe that is an indication that the relationship was not overall good, but that doesn't imply that my sexual orientation was the problem.

My sister recently came out gay. She tried many times to date guys but she realized she was always miserable. However, when she dated women, she found she connected on a new level and didn't dread being with them. She is Christian, but she feels that God would understand that her loving another woman is not a bad thing because it does not feel like a bad thing.

I am not saying that you have to accept this theology, but you shoudl be aware of how hard it is to convince homosexuals that their feelings of love for another are false and God doesn't like that love. It would be similar to someone telling you that God is against the heterosexual lifestyle and he doesn't approve of your relationship with your wife.

Once that dries up and the "allure" goes away, they're not happy, because it's not natural and it's not the type of relationship that God wants for them.

I wonder how many interracial couples were told this also?

I can't boldly tell my friend, "look, you're gay, but you have to stop persuing men, cut ties with your 'gay community' relations, etc, because God tells us this is wrong and it is not the right way to live." Great, then I'm the enemy.

I agree. I don't think he will respond well if you condemn his lifestyle. I think the best thing you can do is show him that you are happy with your religious beliefs and it helps you live a good life and see if that interests him.

 

[Poke]

The difference is that you can point out the obvious harm or obvious potential harm in a secular manner. With homosexuality, all you can claim is that your version of God doesn't like it.

My version of God? Evey major religion in the world from Hindu to Islam condemns homosexuality. But, we can leave God out of it. Homosexuality is a destructive lifestyle. The life expectancy of homosexuals are rather short and homosexuals have propensity to confuse, it not molest, children.

 

[Quath]

My version of God? Evey major religion in the world from Hindu to Islam condemns homosexuality.

I know some Christians that believe that God does not condemn homosexuality.

The life expectancy of homosexuals are rather short

That was a flawed study based on newspaper obituaries which have biases due to readership (for example, many gay newspapers do not have a section of death notices.

Anyway, the flaws are analysized at US Davis.

and homosexuals have propensity to confuse, it not molest, children.

This study was also done by the same person ans is flawed. It has also been analysized by UC Davis and the problems are discussed.

From StopChildMolestation.com:

While it is a commonly held belief that men who prefer men as adult sex partners molest boys and men who prefer women as adult sex partners molest girls, our study results suggest something different. (Note: Only 7 percent of child molesters show no sexual interest in adults.)

Alfred E. Kinsey, in his landmark study of male sexuality, divided adult sexual interest into seven categories: three categories of homosexuality, one category of bi-sexuality, and three categories of heterosexuality. The Abel and Harlow study used this "Kinsey Scale" in its questions about adult sexual preference.

The 1,038 men who molested boys reported a range of adult sexual preferences. Contrary to popular belief, only 8 percent reported that they were exclusively homosexual in their adult preferences. The majority of the men who molested boys (51 percent) described themselves as exclusively heterosexual in their adult partner preferences. An additional 19 percent reported they were predominately heterosexual, while yet another 9 percent said they were equally heterosexual and homosexual in their adult sex life. As with other characteristics, the group of 1,038 men who molest boys followed the general pattern of the U.S. male population in regard to their adult sexual preferences. As reported by Kinsey, the majority of U.S. adult males (76 percent) described themselves as exclusively heterosexual and an additional 9 percent said they were predominantly heterosexual. In terms of their homosexuality, Kinsey reports that those U.S. males who describe themselves as exclusively homosexual are 6 percent and those that report being predominantly homosexual an additional 4 percent. These findings are in direct opposition to the generally accepted opinion that the overwhelming majority of men who molest boys are homosexual. The majority of men who molest boys (70 percent) are predominantly heterosexual. In general, that large number parallels the number of men in the U.S. population (85 percent) who have reported that they are predominantly heterosexual.

The problem is that Christian groups that want to promote their religious adgenda will use bad science to do so. As they do this, they shift the watchful eyes of parents towards homosexuals and away from the people more likely to molest their child. Their biased adgenda results is more harm as they try to manipulate people and science.

 

[Vic C.]

Listen, Michael has a serious problem here and is confiding in us and trusting in us to give him the best Christian advice we can. I commending for coming forward and trusting us.

But Quath, rules are rules and "we" are getting close to crossing the line here. I remind all that the rules state:

1 - This is a Christian site, therefore, any attempt to put down Christianity and the basic tenets of our Faith will be considered a hostile act. Statement of Faith

We consider Paul's writings to be part of the inspired Word of God. This is a Christian forum and any posting(s) that is intended to purpously distort Paul's writings will not be tolerated.

Active promotion of sinful behavior will not be permitted. This includes promotion of homosexual behavior. Individual restrictions may apply on a Forum to Forum basis. Please check the announcements and stickeys at the top of each Forum.

 

[ZeroTX]

I don't equate racial segregation (marital or otherwise) with preaching out against homosexuality. Homosexuality is explicitly anti-biblical and has been contrary to Christian doctrine from the beginning. Perhaps some liberals who claim to be Christians condone it now, but that doesn't make it right.

I do appreciate the advice I have received thus far. I want to reach out and help my friend, but I think I will have to be subtle without being devisive. I actually wouldn't mind him going as a single person to even a liberal church if it would help him begin a meaningful prayer life and grow his confidence in God, but I don't want him to get brainwashed by liberal pastors, either.... Perhaps an encouragement of private devotion and inviting him to church would be good. I would go to a non-Catholic church with him (in addition to going to mass, as yes, I am Catholic), if it would make him comfortable, plus I do enjoy the sermons, bible studies and songs in (most) protestant churches.

God bless,

Michael

 

[jgredline]

Zero
While I really don't have any advice for you, I can assure I will be praying for you on this matter. That God through the Holy Spirit will give you and your wife wisdom through Jesus Christ.
Blessing to you both.
Javier

 

[Spirit Driven]

Greetings Zero,

Just be his friend as you always have been...God has shut up all men in disobedience that He may show mercy to all (Romans 11:32

A man's way is not in himself; Nor is it in a man who walks to direct his steps (Jeremiah 10:23).

The potter has a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honor, and another for dishonor (Romans 9:21).

You will not change Gods plan for your freinds life no matter how hard you try....The mind of man plans his way, but the Lord directs his steps (Proverbs 16:9).
The lot is cast into the lap, but its every decision is from the Lord (Proverbs 16:33).
Many are the plans in a man's heart, but the counsel of the Lord will be established (Proverbs 19:21).
Man's steps are ordained by the Lord (Proverbs 20:24).

Fret not.... be assured God works everything after the counsel of his own will.

Grace and Peace to you