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Hypothetical Man on the Island Part 2......

G

Georges

Guest
Here would be an interesting scene....The OT washes up on the island and the people of the entire Island read the OT and decide they want to follow the Laws of Righteous...

At some point in the future, 2 books wash ashore on different parts of the island....On the western side, Lattimore's "The Four Gospels and The Revelation" washes ashore.....On the eastern side of the island, "Acts and The Letters of the Apostles (sans Peter, James, John, Jude)" washes ashore.....

There would be 2 different perspectives of Jesus and his role on the Island.

The western side of the Island would still have the OT because of it's ageless set of rules, and they would have the Gospels as a guide to live them more perfectly. Revelation they would have for the future events.

The eastern side would only have the Acts and the Epistles of Paul....According to the Epistles, the Tanach was made null and void (negated) at the cross according to Paul.

The people of the middle of the island are those who have access to all of the books and are able to judge without bias.


The historical comparison.....

The people of the West are the Church at Jerusalem comprised of Nazarene Jews and Proselytes....those who observed Torah Law and Esteemed Jesus as the Messiah. Their descendents would be the Nazarene/Ebionites.

The people of the East are Gentile Christians who reject Torah and the principles of those of the West. These would by followers of Paul. Their descendents would be European Christianity.

The people in the middle of the Island who had access to all of the books are the Asians who eventually ejected Paul because they found his teachings opposed to the teachings of the OT and Gospels and Revelation.


It would be interesting to see if the comparison would hold up under an experiment...
 
In the interest of keeping this thread from being locked, and because I like much of what Georges brings to a debate :D I'll offer this opportunity.

I like the idea of looking into what might happen in this hypothetical island debate. I don't think the islanders would be all that much different in their opinions as you seem to think. Georges, would you be willing to list what you think the 10 most important differences would be in the train of thought between each side of the island? I personally think that Paul teaches the same, just in a different method. I don't think the islanders would be at odds and would still consider each other as brothers/sisters in Christ. I like the idea on this thread but I wouldn't participate unless the issues where narrowed down some, I don't want to write a book afterall :lol:
 
Rob said:
In the interest of keeping this thread from being locked, and because I like much of what Georges brings to a debate :D I'll offer this opportunity.

I like the idea of looking into what might happen in this hypothetical island debate. I don't think the islanders would be all that much different in their opinions as you seem to think. Georges, would you be willing to list what you think the 10 most important differences would be in the train of thought between each side of the island? I personally think that Paul teaches the same, just in a different method. I don't think the islanders would be at odds and would still consider each other as brothers/sisters in Christ. I like the idea on this thread but I wouldn't participate unless the issues where narrowed down some, I don't want to write a book afterall :lol:
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I didn't think this would be locked....I didn't say Paul was false in the OP... :)

Rob, are you suggesting 10 reasons that maybe the central islanders would find between the West and East?
 
Actually I'm suggesting you listing the top ten differences you think the east and the west would have in their beliefs.
 
Does this mean the islanders will have to forego their share of wild boar hunting/eating or will they be on a "catch and release" program? :)
 
vic said:
Does this mean the islanders will have to forego their share of wild boar hunting/eating or will they be on a "catch and release" program? :)
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That depends...

The Westerners will I'm sure follow James' example of being a vegetarian only so catch and release. The Easterners will not follow any dietary laws so catch and eat. :P
 
Rob said:
Actually I'm suggesting you listing the top ten differences you think the east and the west would have in their beliefs.
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Top Ten....

OK....I'll try and come up with 10....I can't really use the concept of a Trinity as one of the ten because that concept wasn't developed until the Church moved to Rome...and the islanders wouldn't have gnosto-mystery neoplatonic influences to develope that...even with just the Pauline epistles that concept wouldn't come about....

Top 10....

1. Concept of the role of Messiah...
2. Concept of Salvation....
3. Concept of the role of God's Torah
4. Concept of who obeys what in Torah

Well, I'll have to think more on the list, I guess each of the above probably can produce many differences in each category...A list of differences between the West and East is a little tough to do...I've got to separate what Christianity has become and the influences used to shape it and remove it to make a fair list...Gotta take the mental time machine back to the time before official doctrine was formulated....

I'll be bach....... :)
 
Georges said:
That depends...

The Westerners will I'm sure follow James' example of being a vegetarian only so catch and release. The Easterners will not follow any dietary laws so catch and eat. :P
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Ok, seroius question and then I will back off in lieu of more serious questions.

Why was James a vegetarian? Didn't he have access to the same Torah and dietary laws as we all do?
 
Sorry to go off topic like this, but I have to ask: Are Paul's epistles really all that different from what Yeshua preached? I don't see that much a difference. Paul added a few such as women being quiet in Church and hair length, but other than that his writings were different from the Gospels.

I am not ready to answer the question just yet, maybe later.
 
vic said:
Georges said:
That depends...

The Westerners will I'm sure follow James' example of being a vegetarian only so catch and release. The Easterners will not follow any dietary laws so catch and eat. :P
Click to expand...
Ok, seroius question and then I will back off in lieu of more serious questions.

Why was James a vegetarian? Didn't he have access to the same Torah and dietary laws as we all do?
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I don't know why...Since James was a Nazarite from birth it may have something to do with that.....

Side note....I think all men were formed to be vegetarians...I mean look at our physical makeup....we are too weak to kill an animal larger than a gopher with our bare hands...even our mouths (teeth) are made for vegtables and not meat...

Vic here is a curiostiy....who do you think Paul was refering to here?

Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

:) :) :)
 
Side note....I think all men were formed to be vegetarians...I mean look at our physical makeup....we are too weak to kill an animal larger than a gopher with our bare hands...even our mouths (teeth) are made for vegtables and not meat...
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But George, Scripture (and God, of course) says othwise. Why would God give us certain foods (including meats) in HIS dietary Laws?

As for that verse, I will read it in context and see how it cross-references to other verses and will be back with my thoughts. Eventually. 8-)
 
vic said:
Side note....I think all men were formed to be vegetarians...I mean look at our physical makeup....we are too weak to kill an animal larger than a gopher with our bare hands...even our mouths (teeth) are made for vegtables and not meat...
Click to expand...

But George, Scripture (and God, of course) says othwise. Why would God give us certain foods (including meats) in HIS dietary Laws?

I think the meat was as a result of no immediate food after the ark...that is the first instance when God gave the "meat eat" the OK....before the flood...vegetarian...the Law came later...still I'll look into the James/Vegetarian connection.

As for that verse, I will read it in context and see how it cross-references to other verses and will be back with my thoughts. Eventually. 8-)

I know you will.... :-D
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I think the meat was as a result of no immediate food after the ark...that is the first instance when God gave the "meat eat" the OK....before the flood...vegetarian...the Law came later...still I'll look into the James/Vegetarian connection.
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I see and I agree:

Gen 9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

Though I wonder; if God insisted we eat only vegetation, couldn't HE have "spoken" the plants to life again, as HE did in Genesis 1:11? Why the sudden, apparent change in diet? Also, what were they eating while on the Ark?

Just thinking things out here.
 
vic said:
I think the meat was as a result of no immediate food after the ark...that is the first instance when God gave the "meat eat" the OK....before the flood...vegetarian...the Law came later...still I'll look into the James/Vegetarian connection.
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I see and I agree:

Gen 9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

Though I wonder; if God insisted we eat only vegetation, couldn't HE have "spoken" the plants to life again, as HE did in Genesis 1:11?

I don't know about the "insistence", God wouldn't have given the ok to eat meat unless he meant it was OK....that begs the question, why didn't God ordain meat eating from the beginning? Must be something to it...

Vic....are you thinking about giving up meat? I haven't had any beef or pork since January. Man, it's torture passin by a B-B-Q restaurant and smellin the aroma....lost about 15lbs... :-D

Why the sudden, apparent change in diet?

don't know....

Also, what were they eating while on the Ark?

Dried Fruit?..... :-D

Just thinking things out here.
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Georges said:
I don't know about the "insistence", God wouldn't have given the ok to eat meat unless he meant it was OK....that begs the question, why didn't God ordain meat eating from the beginning? Must be something to it...

Vic....are you thinking about giving up meat? I haven't had any beef or pork since January. Man, it's torture passin by a B-B-Q restaurant and smellin the aroma....lost about 15lbs...:-D
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No, not completely. I have cut back a lot though. At age 49, it can be a real 'drag'. LOL


[quote:342d1]Also, what were they eating while on the Ark?
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Dried Fruit?..... :-D
[/quote:342d1]
Did they run out of fruit at about Genesis 9:3? Why didn't God replensh their supply? Jesus fed a multitude with just two fish and five loaves of bread. Must be something to this too... 8-)
 
vic said:
Georges said:
I don't know about the "insistence", God wouldn't have given the ok to eat meat unless he meant it was OK....that begs the question, why didn't God ordain meat eating from the beginning? Must be something to it...

Vic....are you thinking about giving up meat? I haven't had any beef or pork since January. Man, it's torture passin by a B-B-Q restaurant and smellin the aroma....lost about 15lbs...:-D
Click to expand...
No, not completely. I have cut back a lot though. At age 49, it can be a real 'drag'. LOL


[quote:3e632]Also, what were they eating while on the Ark?
Click to expand...

Dried Fruit?..... :-D
Click to expand...
Did they run out of fruit at about Genesis 9:3? Why didn't God replensh their supply? Jesus fed a multitude with just two fish and five loaves of bread. Must be something to this too... 8-)[/quote:3e632]

Missed that one.... :oops: :-D
 
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