Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Focus on the Family

    Strengthening families through biblical principles.

    Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.

  • Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
  • The Gospel of Jesus Christ

    Heard of "The Gospel"? Want to know more?

    There is salvation in no other, for there is not another name under heaven having been given among men, by which it behooves us to be saved."

In Hebrews 1:8 Jesus is not God Almighty

Donations

Total amount
$1,592.00
Goal
$5,080.00

Runningman

Member
Hebrews 1:8 is often interpreted to mean that Jesus is God since it reads “Your throne, O God, endures forever and ever..." However, this particular verse is quoted directly from Psalm 45:6.

The context of Psalm 45:6 is regarding a human king named Solomon. In this verse, Solomon is not being called Lord God Almighty. Solomon is being referred to as a ruler with high rank and status, but not God.

Back to Hebrews 1:8, the writer applies Psalm 45:6 to Jesus, but the original context is not a prophecy concerning Jesus since the one being referenced in Psalm 45:6 is a king who has a queen. God nor Jesus are ever said to have a queen. Therefore, the correct way to understand Jesus and Solomon in their contexts are as gods with a little g.

The context continues and supplements this fact. Verse 9 says "You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, Your God, has anointed You above Your companions with the oil of joy.” This demonstrates that the person being referenced isn't God Himself or equal to God since he has companions to be anointed above and also has a God.
 
Hebrews 1:8 is often interpreted to mean that Jesus is God since it reads “Your throne, O God, endures forever and ever..." However, this particular verse is quoted directly from Psalm 45:6.

The context of Psalm 45:6 is regarding a human king named Solomon. In this verse, Solomon is not being called Lord God Almighty. Solomon is being referred to as a ruler with high rank and status, but not God.

Back to Hebrews 1:8, the writer applies Psalm 45:6 to Jesus, but the original context is not a prophecy concerning Jesus since the one being referenced in Psalm 45:6 is a king who has a queen. God nor Jesus are ever said to have a queen. Therefore, the correct way to understand Jesus and Solomon in their contexts are as gods with a little g.

The context continues and supplements this fact. Verse 9 says "You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, Your God, has anointed You above Your companions with the oil of joy.” This demonstrates that the person being referenced isn't God Himself or equal to God since he has companions to be anointed above and also has a God.
Except that Heb 1:8 says what it says:

Heb 1:8 But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.
Heb 1:9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.” (ESV)

It doesn't matter that the original Psalm was regarding a human king. The above two verses clearly have the Father saying of the Son, "Your throne, O God." In other words, the inspired writer of Hebrews truly believes that those two verses apply to the Son and that the Father calls him God.

And, it agrees with Heb 1:2, 6, 10-12:

First, in context, we see in verse 2 that all things were created through the Son, which agrees with John 1:1-3, 1 Cor 8:6, and Col 1:16-17. If all things were created through the Son, then it necessarily follows that he cannot be created and must have absolute existence. The logic is inescapable. We also see in verse 3 that, as a man, "He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature." That is, he is God incarnate.

Second, in 1:6, the quote is from Psalm 97:7 in the Septuagint, which is a passage about Yahweh:

Psa 97:1 The LORD reigns, let the earth rejoice; let the many coastlands be glad!
Psa 97:2 Clouds and thick darkness are all around him; righteousness and justice are the foundation of his throne.
Psa 97:3 Fire goes before him and burns up his adversaries all around.
Psa 97:4 His lightnings light up the world; the earth sees and trembles.
Psa 97:5 The mountains melt like wax before the LORD, before the Lord of all the earth.
Psa 97:6 The heavens proclaim his righteousness, and all the peoples see his glory.
Psa 97:7 All worshipers of images are put to shame, who make their boast in worthless idols; worship him, all you gods! (ESV)

So, it is an OT passage about Yahweh being applied to the Son, by God.

Third, just a bit later in verses 10-12, we have yet another passage about Yahweh (Psalm 102:25-27), with the Father specifically and clearly saying it is about the Son:

Heb 1:10 And, “You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands;
Heb 1:11 they will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment,
Heb 1:12 like a robe you will roll them up, like a garment they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will have no end.” (ESV)

Psa 102:25 Of old you laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands.
Psa 102:26 They will perish, but you will remain; they will all wear out like a garment. You will change them like a robe, and they will pass away,
Psa 102:27 but you are the same, and your years have no end. (ESV)

So, within the first chapter of Hebrews, there is one verse that strongly implies that the Son has absolute existence (in agreement with several other passages), and there are three OT passages which the Father applies to the Son, each of which refer to God. And, like John 1:1-18, it is introducing us to the Son, but here telling us why he is superior to the angels.
 
Hebrews 1:8 is often interpreted to mean that Jesus is God since it reads “Your throne, O God, endures forever and ever..." However, this particular verse is quoted directly from Psalm 45:6.

The context of Psalm 45:6 is regarding a human king named Solomon. In this verse, Solomon is not being called Lord God Almighty. Solomon is being referred to as a ruler with high rank and status, but not God.

Back to Hebrews 1:8, the writer applies Psalm 45:6 to Jesus, but the original context is not a prophecy concerning Jesus since the one being referenced in Psalm 45:6 is a king who has a queen. God nor Jesus are ever said to have a queen. Therefore, the correct way to understand Jesus and Solomon in their contexts are as gods with a little g.

The context continues and supplements this fact. Verse 9 says "You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, Your God, has anointed You above Your companions with the oil of joy.” This demonstrates that the person being referenced isn't God Himself or equal to God since he has companions to be anointed above and also has a God.
Hello Runningman.
The point of Heb.1 is that God 1st spoke through men and then by His Son, who also isn't an angel. Also, the queen is the church.

Hebrews is writen in an amazing way because it weaves the OT symbols into a gospel that screams Jesus is God and for the very same reason Jesus never directly said it.
 
Hello Runningman.
Hi there.

The point of Heb.1 is that God 1st spoke through men and then by His Son, who also isn't an angel.
If God spoke through the prophets in the past then speaking through the Son isn't a way God spoke in the past. It refers to speaking through the Son "in the last days" to create the church age.

Also, the queen is the church.
The queen is not the church. The church is often called a "bride." Queen is not equal to bride.

Hebrews is writen in an amazing way because it weaves the OT symbols into a gospel that screams Jesus is God and for the very same reason Jesus never directly said it.
Hebrews 1 does not allow for Jesus to be God as the OP I put here proves. I hope it helps. We can discuss it at length if you'd like.
 
It doesn't matter that the original Psalm was regarding a human king. The above two verses clearly have the Father saying of the Son, "Your throne, O God." In other words, the inspired writer of Hebrews truly believes that those two verses apply to the Son and that the Father calls him God.
yes it matters who the context of the original writing is about. When there is a prophecy about someone then the entire context of the prophecy needs to apply to the person in question. In Psalm 45, the context isn't originally about Jesus.

And, it agrees with Heb 1:2, 6, 10-12:

First, in context, we see in verse 2 that all things were created through the Son,
God didn't speak through the Son in the past, but rather through the prophets. God didn't speak through the Son until "these last days." The universe was not created in the "last days." The universe was created at the beginning when God spoke alone. What was created by speaking through the Son in these "last days" is the ages, i.e., the church age.

which agrees with John 1:1-3,
Yes, all of scripture agrees when it is rightly divided. Now I am doing that. John 1:1-3 also refers to the beginning of the church. John 1:1-3 closely parallels 1 John 1:1-3. The idea being conveyed is that God created the Jesus out of the logos. God had set plans and foreknowledge and God manifested it.

1 Cor 8:6, and
One God the Father.

Col 1:16-17. If all things were created through the Son, then it necessarily follows that he cannot be created and must have absolute existence. The logic is inescapable. We also see in verse 3 that, as a man, "He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature." That is, he is God incarnate.
Begin with Colossians 1:15. All things do not come from the "image of God" but rather they come from God Himself. This was all completed at the cross. This passage refers to a specific context, the church. Paul is exaggerating in this chapter.

For example, in Colossians 1:23 do you believe the gospel had already been preached to every human on earth? In order for there to be consistency you must hold to the position that Colossians 1:23 is also literal.

23if indeed you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope of the gospel you heard, which has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.
Second, in 1:6, the quote is from Psalm 97:7 in the Septuagint, which is a passage about Yahweh:

Psa 97:1 The LORD reigns, let the earth rejoice; let the many coastlands be glad!
Psa 97:2 Clouds and thick darkness are all around him; righteousness and justice are the foundation of his throne.
Psa 97:3 Fire goes before him and burns up his adversaries all around.
Psa 97:4 His lightnings light up the world; the earth sees and trembles.
Psa 97:5 The mountains melt like wax before the LORD, before the Lord of all the earth.
Psa 97:6 The heavens proclaim his righteousness, and all the peoples see his glory.
Psa 97:7 All worshipers of images are put to shame, who make their boast in worthless idols; worship him, all you gods! (ESV)

So, it is an OT passage about Yahweh being applied to the Son, by God.
No that isn't happening. Psalm 110:1 proves that YHWH is not the Son.

Third, just a bit later in verses 10-12, we have yet another passage about Yahweh (Psalm 102:25-27), with the Father specifically and clearly saying it is about the Son:

Heb 1:10 And, “You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands;
Heb 1:11 they will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment,
Heb 1:12 like a robe you will roll them up, like a garment they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will have no end.” (ESV)

Psa 102:25 Of old you laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands.
Psa 102:26 They will perish, but you will remain; they will all wear out like a garment. You will change them like a robe, and they will pass away,
Psa 102:27 but you are the same, and your years have no end. (ESV)
I would have to refer you to Psalm 110:1 again which plainly differentiates YHWH from His Son. They are not the same person. One is God, the Son is not.

So, within the first chapter of Hebrews, there is one verse that strongly implies that the Son has absolute existence (in agreement with several other passages), and there are three OT passages which the Father applies to the Son, each of which refer to God. And, like John 1:1-18, it is introducing us to the Son, but here telling us why he is superior to the angels.
Hebrews 1 debunks the deity of Jesus as I just showed with my OP.
 
Hi there.

If God spoke through the prophets in the past then speaking through the Son isn't a way God spoke in the past.
Right. They spoke from earth,

See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven: Heb.12:25 KJV
It refers to speaking through the Son "in the last days" to create the church age.
The church was formed when God made Eve.
The queen is not the church. The church is often called a "bride." Queen is not equal to bride.
It is when your Husband is King.
Hebrews 1 does not allow for Jesus to be God as the OP I put here proves. I hope it helps.
We can discuss it at length if you'd like.
In Hebrews 1, our Father commanded the angels in Heaven to worship His Son Who laid the foundation of the earth, but has never changed Himself.

It's a revelation that becomes clea as we grow in Him.
 
yes it matters who the context of the original writing is about. When there is a prophecy about someone then the entire context of the prophecy needs to apply to the person in question.
It does, but not in the sense you think it does.

In Psalm 45, the context isn't originally about Jesus.
Of course it isn't, but that isn't relevant.

God didn't speak through the Son in the past, but rather through the prophets. God didn't speak through the Son until "these last days." The universe was not created in the "last days." The universe was created at the beginning when God spoke alone. What was created by speaking through the Son in these "last days" is the ages, i.e., the church age.
As the God-man, God incarnate, Jesus spoke what the Father wanted him to speak concerning truth and salvation. You might also want to consider that Peter says the OT spoke by the Spirit of Christ.

1Pe 1:11 inquiring what person or time the Spirit of Christ in them was indicating when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the subsequent glories. (ESV)

Yet, he also says:

2Pe 1:21 For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit. (ESV)

Yes, all of scripture agrees when it is rightly divided. Now I am doing that.
That is actually the very thing you are not even close to doing.

John 1:1-3 also refers to the beginning of the church.
No, it absolutely does not. This is the exact opposite of rightly diving the word of truth. It is only about who the Word is. He has absolute existence (having been in existence when the beginning began), was in an intimate, interpersonal relationship with God, and was God in nature. All of that is then supported by John saying that "All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made" (ESV). That is the entire point of those verses and John's whole prologue.

John 1:1-3 closely parallels 1 John 1:1-3. The idea being conveyed is that God created the Jesus out of the logos. God had set plans and foreknowledge and God manifested it.
The text states things quite plainly and there is simply no way to get that meaning from the text. John simply

One God the Father.
On the one hand, it's not surprising you keep repeating this rebutted argument. On the other, it isn't, since you have continually ignored the rebuttal. Here it is again:

First, if you want the verse to say that "one God, the Father" precludes Jesus from being God, then it necessarily follows that "one Lord, Jesus Christ" precludes the Father from being Lord. The logic demands that the Father can never be Lord if Jesus can never be God. There is simply no way around it. Yet that would contradict what Paul writes in many passages, such as1 Tim. 6:15. It would also contradict numerous other passages in the NT, such as Luke 10:21.

Second, if "of whom are all things" speaks of the Father's absolute existence and his nature as God, then it necessarily follows that "by whom are all things" speaks of the Son's absolute existence and nature as God. We cannot say that in relation to the Father "all things" means absolutely everything that has come into existence but that it means something different in relation to the Son. And this is confirmed in John 1:1-3, Col 1:16-17, Heb 1:2, 6, 10-12.

So, simple, sound logic leads to the only conclusion that Jesus, or rather the Son, is also God in nature, being of the same substance as the Father. There never was a time when the Son did not exist. Yet, he clearly is distinct from the Father and is not a separate God.

Begin with Colossians 1:15. All things do not come from the "image of God" but rather they come from God Himself. This was all completed at the cross. This passage refers to a specific context, the church.
This is another case of not rightly dividing Scripture. It seems to me that you truly don't understand how context works. Someone else has already explained your error in this passage:

Col 1:13 He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son,
Col 1:14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent.
Col 1:19 For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell,
Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.
Col 1:21 And you, who once were alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds,
Col 1:22 he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him, (ESV)

All of these verses introduce us to who the Son is and what he has done. More specifically, they show his lordship over creation and redemption. Verses 16-17 explain what is meant in verse 15. So, given that Paul again says that everything that has been created was created through the Son, the only logical conclusion is that the Son cannot have been created. Jesus is the only begotten (unique) Son and so has preeminence over all creation. At not point does Paul say that the Son is created, nor could he, as that would contradict the very clear meaning of verse 16-17, in addition to what Paul says elsewhere.

There is simply no way to conclude that this was "all completed at the cross." Verses 15-17 are telling us just who the person is who died at the cross for our salvation. Notice all the "Fors" and "Ands." Those preclude reading back into verses 16 and 17 that they are referring to the cross.

Paul is exaggerating in this chapter.
Exaggerating? There is simply no reason to believe that, especially when it agrees with what he says elsewhere, in addition to agreeing with John and the writer of Hebrews.

For example, in Colossians 1:23 do you believe the gospel had already been preached to every human on earth? In order for there to be consistency you must hold to the position that Colossians 1:23 is also literal.

23if indeed you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope of the gospel you heard, which has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.
Colossians 1:23 doesn't say "every human" or "every creature." It says "in all creation," which could be referring to "in the presence of every creature" (The Expositor's Greek Testament) meaning more specifically both Jews and Gentiles. And so, it likely is a repeat of what Paul says in verse 6:

Col 1:5 because of the hope laid up for you in heaven. Of this you have heard before in the word of the truth, the gospel,
Col 1:6 which has come to you, as indeed in the whole world it is bearing fruit and increasing—as it also does among you, since the day you heard it and understood the grace of God in truth, (ESV)

The gospel was being preached and spreading all over their known world, which is what Jesus commissioned them to do. The first 14 verses are important for understand what Paul writes in verses 15-23.

No that isn't happening.
Yes, it is exactly what is happening. If not, then the quote by the writer of Hebrews is utterly meaningless.

Again, in Heb 1:6, the quote is from Psalm 97:7 in the Septuagint, which is a passage about Yahweh:

Psa 97:1 The LORD reigns, let the earth rejoice; let the many coastlands be glad!
Psa 97:2 Clouds and thick darkness are all around him; righteousness and justice are the foundation of his throne.
Psa 97:3 Fire goes before him and burns up his adversaries all around.
Psa 97:4 His lightnings light up the world; the earth sees and trembles.
Psa 97:5 The mountains melt like wax before the LORD, before the Lord of all the earth.
Psa 97:6 The heavens proclaim his righteousness, and all the peoples see his glory.
Psa 97:7 All worshipers of images are put to shame, who make their boast in worthless idols; worship him, all you gods! (ESV)

So, it is an OT passage about Yahweh being applied to the Son, by God.
 
Psalm 110:1 proves that YHWH is not the Son.
No, it does not. It refers to the Messiah, who is both God and man (John 1:1-18; Phil 2:5-8). It says nothing of the Son being in nature God.

I would have to refer you to Psalm 110:1 again which plainly differentiates YHWH from His Son.
This is begging the question. It differentiates between Yahweh and the Messiah, whom we learn in the NT, is God in human flesh.

They are not the same person.
I agree, as do all Trinitarians.

One is God, the Son is not.
Again, this is begging the question.

Hebrews 1 debunks the deity of Jesus as I just showed with my OP.
You haven't shown anything of the sort. Hebrews 1 very much proves the deity of Jesus by first claiming that everything was created through the Son, then having the Father himself apply three passages about Yahweh to the Son. There simply is no other way to understand such an application of OT passages to the Son.

Your only way out is to deny the inspiration of Scripture or argue that these are all late additions to the text. However, if Heb 1 as it is, is likely originial, and it is inspired by God like the rest of Scripture, then it proves the deity of Jesus.
 
It does, but not in the sense you think it does.
My OP is about Psalm 45, in its original context, not being about Jesus and it being appropriated into Hebrews 1:8. It's about a human king with a foreign queen. That isn't Jesus, that would be Solomon. The author of Psalm 45 is not calling Solomon Lord God Almighty in Psalm 45. Therefore, when it is applied to Jesus, it doesn't transfer to Jesus that this is about him being God. This is about Jesus being a god with a little g.

This is also self-evident from the context where the king has a God who anointed him "above" his companions. For one, God doesn't have companions. Two, God doesn't needed to be anointed above anyone. We're talking about someone inferior to God in every sense, a human king being referred to as a god.

Sometimes, people themselves are referred to as gods in the Bible, but not in the proper sense. The context informs this, the translation of the Greek does not. The word for god, whether it be the Father, or the "god of this world," or those whom the word of God came, is the same.

Therefore, Hebrews 1:8 is not about the Son being God.
 
The church was formed when God made Eve.
Not according to scripture.

It is when your Husband is King.
In Psalm 45 we're talking about a literal king and literal queen. The church isn't the literal bride of Christ, it's simply an analogy for illustrative purposes. I am a man and I am not marrying another man which would be a sin according to scripture. Your literal interpretation doesn't work.

In Hebrews 1, our Father commanded the angels in Heaven to worship His Son Who laid the foundation of the earth, but has never changed Himself.
He commanded to angels to worship him as the Son, not as God. Nowhere did God command Christians or angels to worship Jesus as God.

It's a revelation that becomes clea as we grow in Him.
what exactly?
 
Yes, Heb. 1:8 can honestly be translated as “Your throne, O god.”

The NAB (St. Joseph ed.,1970) goes on to explain, however, that others have translated Ps. 45:6 as, “Your throne is the throne of God” and refers us to 1 Chron. 29:23 “where Solomon’s throne is referred to as the throne of the LORD [YHWH].”

Now we’re getting closer to the most likely intention of Heb. 1:8. There is good evidence that the proper translation of Heb. 1:8 (as well as Ps. 45:6) should be “your throne is God forever” or “God is your throne forever.”

For one thing, the definite article (“the”) is used in the NT Greek with “God” in this scripture. Not even John (who does, rarely, use theos for Jesus) uses theos with the definite article as found here for anyone except the Only True God - the Father. - See the DEF study.

Also, if we look at some respected trinitarian authorities, we also see a preference for the “God is thy throne” rendering.

Oxford professor and famous trinitarian Bible translator, Dr. James Moffatt, has been described as “probably the greatest biblical scholar of our day.” His respected Bible translation renders Heb. 1:8 as:

God is thy throne for ever and ever.”

University of Cambridge professor and noted New Testament language scholar, Dr. C. F. D. Moule writes that Heb. 1:8 may be “construed so as to mean Thy throne is God” - p. 32, An Idiom Book of New Testament Greek, Cambridge University Press, 1990 printing.

An American Translation (Smith-Goodspeed), renders it: “God is your throne....”

And The Bible in Living English (Byington) reads: “God is your throne....”

The Message reads: “Your throne is God’s throne….”

NSB -
God is your throne

Mace - "God is thy throne….”

Twentieth Century Translation - ‘God is thy throne….’

Another acclaimed scholar of trinitarian Christendom has translated this verse similarly and made some interesting comments. Trinitarian Dr. William Barclay,

“world-renowned Scottish New Testament interpreter, was noted as a profound scholar and a writer of extraordinary gifts .... He was the minister of Trinity Church, Renfrew, Scotland, and, later, Professor of Divinity and Biblical Criticism at the University of Glasgow.”

Dr. Barclay, in his translation of the New Testament, has also rendered Hebrews 1:8 as : “God is your throne for ever and ever.”
 
Yes, Heb. 1:8 can honestly be translated as “Your throne, O god.”

The NAB (St. Joseph ed.,1970) goes on to explain, however, that others have translated Ps. 45:6 as, “Your throne is the throne of God” and refers us to 1 Chron. 29:23 “where Solomon’s throne is referred to as the throne of the LORD [YHWH].”

Now we’re getting closer to the most likely intention of Heb. 1:8. There is good evidence that the proper translation of Heb. 1:8 (as well as Ps. 45:6) should be “your throne is God forever” or “God is your throne forever.”

For one thing, the definite article (“the”) is used in the NT Greek with “God” in this scripture. Not even John (who does, rarely, use theos for Jesus) uses theos with the definite article as found here for anyone except the Only True God - the Father. - See the DEF study.

Also, if we look at some respected trinitarian authorities, we also see a preference for the “God is thy throne” rendering.

Oxford professor and famous trinitarian Bible translator, Dr. James Moffatt, has been described as “probably the greatest biblical scholar of our day.” His respected Bible translation renders Heb. 1:8 as:

God is thy throne for ever and ever.”

University of Cambridge professor and noted New Testament language scholar, Dr. C. F. D. Moule writes that Heb. 1:8 may be “construed so as to mean Thy throne is God” - p. 32, An Idiom Book of New Testament Greek, Cambridge University Press, 1990 printing.

An American Translation (Smith-Goodspeed), renders it: “God is your throne....”

And The Bible in Living English (Byington) reads: “God is your throne....”

The Message reads: “Your throne is God’s throne….”

NSB -
God is your throne

Mace - "God is thy throne….”

Twentieth Century Translation - ‘God is thy throne….’

Another acclaimed scholar of trinitarian Christendom has translated this verse similarly and made some interesting comments. Trinitarian Dr. William Barclay,

“world-renowned Scottish New Testament interpreter, was noted as a profound scholar and a writer of extraordinary gifts .... He was the minister of Trinity Church, Renfrew, Scotland, and, later, Professor of Divinity and Biblical Criticism at the University of Glasgow.”

Dr. Barclay, in his translation of the New Testament, has also rendered Hebrews 1:8 as : “God is your throne for ever and ever.”
yes, I would have to agree with that. I have also seen this in my studying as well.

"Your throne is God..." basically means that God is this king's authority with the throne of the king belonging to God. The king, in turn, reigns because of the authority given to him by God. The king and Jesus are both anointed by God above their companions.
 
I agree. That is what is part of making the 🌎 chaos currently. In the family structure, the parents are supposed to have a level of respect and reverence. A huge majority of children currently have chucked that out the window and make themselves equal. Jesus always made it a point he came to do the Father's will. He then, disperses the Father's inheritance to the children of God because he is the firstborn over creation. The Father appointed him Executor over the Will. (legal document) Very simple to understand actually.

John 1:12-13 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God-children born not of natural descent, not of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

Ephesians 1:13-14 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession -to the praise of his glory.

Romans 8:15-17 For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry,"Abba, Father." The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. Now if we are children, then we are heirs-heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.
 
Last edited:
Yes, Heb. 1:8 can honestly be translated as “Your throne, O god.”

The NAB (St. Joseph ed.,1970) goes on to explain, however, that others have translated Ps. 45:6 as, “Your throne is the throne of God” and refers us to 1 Chron. 29:23 “where Solomon’s throne is referred to as the throne of the LORD [YHWH].”

Now we’re getting closer to the most likely intention of Heb. 1:8. There is good evidence that the proper translation of Heb. 1:8 (as well as Ps. 45:6) should be “your throne is God forever” or “God is your throne forever.”

For one thing, the definite article (“the”) is used in the NT Greek with “God” in this scripture. Not even John (who does, rarely, use theos for Jesus) uses theos with the definite article as found here for anyone except the Only True God - the Father. - See the DEF study.

Also, if we look at some respected trinitarian authorities, we also see a preference for the “God is thy throne” rendering.

Oxford professor and famous trinitarian Bible translator, Dr. James Moffatt, has been described as “probably the greatest biblical scholar of our day.” His respected Bible translation renders Heb. 1:8 as:

God is thy throne for ever and ever.”

University of Cambridge professor and noted New Testament language scholar, Dr. C. F. D. Moule writes that Heb. 1:8 may be “construed so as to mean Thy throne is God” - p. 32, An Idiom Book of New Testament Greek, Cambridge University Press, 1990 printing.

An American Translation (Smith-Goodspeed), renders it: “God is your throne....”

And The Bible in Living English (Byington) reads: “God is your throne....”

The Message reads: “Your throne is God’s throne….”

NSB -
God is your throne

Mace - "God is thy throne….”

Twentieth Century Translation - ‘God is thy throne….’

Another acclaimed scholar of trinitarian Christendom has translated this verse similarly and made some interesting comments. Trinitarian Dr. William Barclay,

“world-renowned Scottish New Testament interpreter, was noted as a profound scholar and a writer of extraordinary gifts .... He was the minister of Trinity Church, Renfrew, Scotland, and, later, Professor of Divinity and Biblical Criticism at the University of Glasgow.”

Dr. Barclay, in his translation of the New Testament, has also rendered Hebrews 1:8 as : “God is your throne for ever and ever.
Speaking of His Throne, later in Hebrews it says Jesus sprinkled it then sat on it. That's what this means,

Take heed thereforeunto yourselves and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. Act.20:28 KJV

He sprinkled His blood on the law because He could have killed them for tortuing Him. Sinning against Him.
 
Not according to scripture.
The church is all believers from beginning to end.
In Psalm 45 we're talking about a literal king and literal queen. The church isn't the literal bride of Christ, it's simply an analogy for illustrative purposes. I am a man and I am not marrying another man which would be a sin according to scripture. Your literal interpretation doesn't work.
Lol...yes I know. Marriage to God is being one with Him.
He commanded to angels to worship him as the Son, not as God. Nowhere did God command Christians or angels to worship Jesus as God.
Angels worshipped Jesus as a man. 🙂
All of them!
what exactly?
How God literally redeemed us to Himself by Himself.
 
Angels worshipped Jesus as a man. 🙂
All of them!
But when?

Hebrews 1
6And again, when God brings His firstborn into the world, He says:
“Let all God’s angels worship Him.”

How God literally redeemed us to Himself by Himself.
I like John 3:16 because it says God sent His Son to save the world through him. What I see is that prime mover and actor is God with Jesus being instrumental.
 
But when?

Hebrews 1
6And again, when God brings His firstborn into the world, He says:
“Let all God’s angels worship Him.”
And then some 🙂

Blessing and honor and glory and power
Be to Him who sits on the throne, And to the Lamb, forever and ever!” Rev.5:13 NKJV
I like John 3:16 because it says God sent His Son to save the world through him. What I see is that prime mover and actor is God with Jesus being instrumental
God has always sent His word through His prophets to save those who believe Him.
 
Hebrews 1:8 is often interpreted to mean that Jesus is God since it reads “Your throne, O God, endures forever and ever..." However, this particular verse is quoted directly from Psalm 45:6.

The context of Psalm 45:6 is regarding a human king named Solomon. In this verse, Solomon is not being called Lord God Almighty. Solomon is being referred to as a ruler with high rank and status, but not God.

Back to Hebrews 1:8, the writer applies Psalm 45:6 to Jesus, but the original context is not a prophecy concerning Jesus since the one being referenced in Psalm 45:6 is a king who has a queen. God nor Jesus are ever said to have a queen. Therefore, the correct way to understand Jesus and Solomon in their contexts are as gods with a little g.

The context continues and supplements this fact. Verse 9 says "You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, Your God, has anointed You above Your companions with the oil of joy.” This demonstrates that the person being referenced isn't God Himself or equal to God since he has companions to be anointed above and also has a God.


But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
And: “You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
Hebrews 1:8-10


Do you believe the LORD God laid the foundation of the earth and the heavens are the work of His hands?

or

Do you believe a man created the heavens and the earth?



JLB
 

Donations

Total amount
$1,592.00
Goal
$5,080.00
Back
Top