Is Arminianism a false Gospel?

[Dave Slayer]

Is Arminianism a false Gospel? Some have said it is preaching another Christ but is that so?

 

[Heidi]

Is Arminianism a false Gospel? Some have said it is preaching another Christ but is that so?

Yes, it's a false gospel. It's based on secular humanism that pays lip service to Christ.

 

[Dave Slayer]

Is Arminianism a false Gospel? Some have said it is preaching another Christ but is that so?

Yes, it's a false gospel. It's based on secular humanism that pays lip service to Christ.

How so? Are all Arminians not really saved?

 

[Heidi]

[quote="Dave Slayer":3nzxvxqk]Is Arminianism a false Gospel? Some have said it is preaching another Christ but is that so?

Yes, it's a false gospel. It's based on secular humanism that pays lip service to Christ.

How so? Are all Arminians not really saved?[/quote:3nzxvxqk]

I'm sure there are Arminians who haven't read the whole bible and thus have weaker faith. But if they're true Christians then when they do read the bible, they will see that they were wrong about their beliefs. But if they know the bible and keep contradicting it by claiming that man has a righteous nature and can thus choose God, then they are not true Christians.

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

yes i agree it is false, but i believe that does not mean they are not saved but that they do not know the fullness of truth.

 

[Drew]

I'm sure there are Arminians who haven't read the whole bible and thus have weaker faith. But if they're true Christians then when they do read the bible, they will see that they were wrong about their beliefs. But if they know the bible and keep contradicting it by claiming that man has a righteous nature and can thus choose God, then they are not true Christians.

This is simply a statement of a position. I strongly suspect that you will not be able to make a credible, biblical argument for it.

 

[Drew]

If by "Arminianism", you are referring to the belief that all people can "freely" accept a gift of salvation by grace through faith, then I believe it is not a false gospel.

Incidentally, the term "gospel", at least as used by Paul, does not denote a "system of salvation", such as "you can be saved by faith in Jesus", it denotes the good news that Jesus is the Davidic Messiah, who is risen from the dead, and is lord of the universe.

 

[Heidi]

I'm sure there are Arminians who haven't read the whole bible and thus have weaker faith. But if they're true Christians then when they do read the bible, they will see that they were wrong about their beliefs. But if they know the bible and keep contradicting it by claiming that man has a righteous nature and can thus choose God, then they are not true Christians.

This is simply a statement of a position. I strongly suspect that you will not be able to make a credible, biblical argument for it.

Wrong. But since I would have to quote the whole bible to prove their teaching is false since there is s-o-o much scripture they contradict, I only do it in stages depending on individual topics. I already initiated one on God's sovereignty with which you argued since you don't believe he can chose whomever he wants. But I'll clue you in, it's God who runs the universe, not man. :wink3

 

[Adullam]

People love imbalance so one aspect of the truth is usually set against the other. Who chooses whom? We must choose each other, God and I. A covenant is a two way street. Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Or else...if God is calling you...obey! Those who drive down one-way streets will find it difficult when they discover that they have reached a dead-end. God will never force His righteousness on anyone. We must be willing and faithful to inherit the promises. We are not just cardboard cut-outs to God. We must be genuine saints. The make-believe must fade away at the arrival of real faith. The way is narrow...not the mind...or at least it shouldn't be!

 

[Drew]

I'm sure there are Arminians who haven't read the whole bible and thus have weaker faith. But if they're true Christians then when they do read the bible, they will see that they were wrong about their beliefs. But if they know the bible and keep contradicting it by claiming that man has a righteous nature and can thus choose God, then they are not true Christians.

This is simply a statement of a position. I strongly suspect that you will not be able to make a credible, biblical argument for it.

Wrong. But since I would have to quote the whole bible to prove their teaching is false since there is s-o-o much scripture they contradict, I only do it in stages depending on individual topics. I already initiated one on God's sovereignty with which you argued since you don't believe he can chose whomever he wants. But I'll clue you in, it's God who runs the universe, not man. :wink3

You are mistaken. Your original post was merely a statement of a position - it contained no actual argument to defend it.

 

[Heidi]

People love imbalance so one aspect of the truth is usually set against the other. Who chooses whom? We must choose each other, God and I. A covenant is a two way street. Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Or else...if God is calling you...obey! Those who drive down one-way streets will find it difficult when they discover that they have reached a dead-end. God will never force His righteousness on anyone. We must be willing and faithful to inherit the promises. We are not just cardboard cut-outs to God. We must be genuine saints. The make-believe must fade away at the arrival of real faith. The way is narrow...not the mind...or at least it shouldn't be!

So which part of man's nature "chooses' God? His sinful nature? :o Or the Holy Spirit that comes from God.

I'll give you a hint; it's not his sinful nature because the sinful nature cannot please God as Romans 8:8-9 explains. ;) And since man does not have a righteous nature as Romans 3:11 explains, then man cannot choose God nor can any part of man respond to God because his sinful nature resists God. "You did not choose me. I chose you."

It's the transforming work of the Holy Spirit that does everything good in us because as Jesus says; "No one is good but God alone." So since only God is good, then everything good we do comes from His Holy Spirit in us, not our sinful nature. So Arminianism is not only a false teaching, it wants to take credit for God's work in man which comes from the sin of pride which is from the devil.

 

[Adullam]

People love imbalance so one aspect of the truth is usually set against the other. Who chooses whom? We must choose each other, God and I. A covenant is a two way street. Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Or else...if God is calling you...obey! Those who drive down one-way streets will find it difficult when they discover that they have reached a dead-end. God will never force His righteousness on anyone. We must be willing and faithful to inherit the promises. We are not just cardboard cut-outs to God. We must be genuine saints. The make-believe must fade away at the arrival of real faith. The way is narrow...not the mind...or at least it shouldn't be!

So which part of man's nature "chooses' God? His sinful nature? :o Or the Holy Spirit that comes from God.

I'll give you a hint; it's not his sinful nature because the sinful nature cannot please God as Romans 8:8-9 explains. ;) And since man does not have a righteous nature as Romans 3:11 explains, then man cannot choose God nor can any part of man respond to God because his sinful nature resists God. "You did not choose me. I chose you."

It's the transforming work of the Holy Spirit that does everything good in us because as Jesus says; "No one is good but God alone." So since only God is good, then everything good we do comes from His Holy Spirit in us, not our sinful nature. So Arminianism is not only a false teaching, it wants to take credit for God's work in man which comes from pride, not the humility from the Spirit.

This is human reasoning and very wrong. We ourselves are not our sin nature. This is a lie of the devil that you have incorporated into your worldview. If that were the case then we would not be redeemable. We would not be given laws either. The soul isn't evil. This is a false teaching you are expositing. God made the soul. The soul is likened to the promised land...it is meant to be conquered and inhibited through grace.

The sin nature places us in God's seat. We do as we want. But a seeker can wish to be set free from this nature. He sees his lack. This is the freedom that Jesus gives us. But notice, that there is still the soul that desires, and cries out for a righteousness that will overcome the power of the sinful nature.


The sin nature "runs" us until we have a divine nature to inspire and empower us. But we are a living soul...capable of doing doing both good and evil. We can will to be good even if we are unable to. The will is in the soul realm. If man's will was always bad, then God would have to force us to obey Him. This is ludicrous. Grace empowers the righteous to further righteousness even unto holiness. He doesn't force us to do anything. A righteous man will obey with the strength he has been given.

God will not do for us what we can do by simple obedience. For instance, God will not tell us to change a baby's diaper if the child is our own. Changing the diaper is right. Not changing the diaper is wrong. If a person never changes the baby's diaper than that one isn't fit to look after the baby.

It is the same with us. We will lose the grace if we are not using it, or using it improperly. If we continually soil our diapers God will clean us.....until we are properly trained. But we must learn to do right. How many Christians soil their garments in the spirit into their 20's 30's and 40's. No growth! God will do it, they say!

There is no such thing as potty training! This is what you are teaching.

 

[Heidi]

This is human reasoning and very wrong. We ourselves are not our sin nature.

Wrong, very wrong. Romans 3:11, "There is no one righteous, not even one. No one who understand, noe one who seeks God."

"No one is good but God alone." That means man has no righteous nature. If he did, he wouldn't need saving. So claiming that man has a righteous nature is not only unbiblical and false, it's called self-righteousness which the Pharisees had which is pride and is from the devil. But there many Pharisees in Christianity today and as Jesus tells us, their father is the devil, the father of lies.

 

[Adullam]

This is human reasoning and very wrong. We ourselves are not our sin nature.

Wrong, very wrong. Romans 3:11, "There is no one righteous, not even one. No one who understand, noe one who seeks God."

"No one is good but God alone." That means man has no righteous nature. If he did, he wouldn't need saving. So claiming that man has a righteous nature is not only unbiblical and false, it's called self-righteousness which the Pharisees had which is pride and is from the devil.

A soul is just a vessel. It must contain something. If a cup gets dirty, do you throw it out? Or can it be washed and used for drinking?

God cleanses our souls and gives us His new wine to fill it. It is the wine that sanctifies the vessel.

You undermine your own Calvanist viewpoint if you believe that a vessel is either good or evil of itself. Think out your position a little further and see that it presently makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[Heidi]

We contain sin. We were born in sin and have a sinful nature only until we receive the indwelling Holy Spirit. A sinful mind can't change a sinful mind because it thinks sinfully to begin with! That's the blind leading the blind. Only Jesus can open the eyes and minds of the blind with the Holy Spirit which is from God, not man. That's why Jesus said; "No one is good but God alone."

 

[Dave Slayer]

My question is this. If men are not in a state of sinful nature, that would indicate that humans are without sin, right? You cannot be a sinner and at the same time not be in a sinful state. We sin because of our sin nature. Man's heart is deceitfully wicked.

 

[Adullam]

We contain sin. We were born in sin and have a sinful nature only until we receive the indwelling Holy Spirit. A sinful mind can't change a sinful mind because it thinks sinfully to begin with! That's the blind leading the blind. Only Jesus can open the eyes and minds of the blind with the Holy Spirit which is from God, not man. That's why Jesus said; "No one is good but God alone."

Then a man cannot follow Christ. In your scheme it is impossible to be holy. Fortunately you are wrong! Read the NT again but read all the verses. You will change your views quickly enough! :yes

In reality, we must also engage our will. We must be obedient to the faith we have been given. We must work out our own salvation. If we do not bring forth fruit, then we will be rejected. Christians will be judged by their works.

We must choose the God who chose us. We must love (from our souls) the God who loved us. In this way we are apprehended to God. Salvation is a process. This must continue to the end of our lives here to be valid. Sanctification is a process. We are to aspire to fulness in Christ. We have been given the grace to be as our Master. Let's not frustrate the grace of God!

 

[Heidi]

We contain sin. We were born in sin and have a sinful nature only until we receive the indwelling Holy Spirit. A sinful mind can't change a sinful mind because it thinks sinfully to begin with! That's the blind leading the blind. Only Jesus can open the eyes and minds of the blind with the Holy Spirit which is from God, not man. That's why Jesus said; "No one is good but God alone."

Then a man cannot follow Christ. In your scheme it is impossible to be holy. Fortunately you are wrong! Read the NT again but read all the verses. You will change your views quickly enough! :yes

In reality, we must also engage our will. We must be obedient to the faith we have been given. We must work out our own salvation. If we do not bring forth fruit, then we will be rejected. Christians will be judged by their works.

We must choose the God who chose us. We must love (from our souls) the God who loved us. In this way we are apprehended to God. Salvation is a process. This must continue to the end of our lives here to be valid. Sanctification is a process. We are to aspire to fulness in Christ. We have been given the grace to be as our Master. Let's not frustrate the grace of God!

Wrong again. Do you know what it means to be born again of the Holy Spirit? Or not? :gah It means to receive the indwelling Holy Sirit from God which changes one's heart. That's what happened to Paul, that's what happened at Pentecost. It is only God who can transform our sinful hearts by His Spirit.

So as Jesus tells us in John 3:5-7, if you are not born again of water and the Spirit, you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven. Man can never be perfect on his own. Never.

 

[mutzrein]

My question is this. If men are not in a state of sinful nature, that would indicate that humans are without sin, right? You cannot be a sinner and at the same time not be in a sinful state. We sin because of our sin nature. Man's heart is deceitfully wicked.

Christendom is confused over the issue of ‘sin’. And the confusion is between an act which is defined as sin (by a law) and the state of sin into which man is born.

Scriptures tells us that man is dead in trespasses & sin. And this is the result of Adam’s sin. We are all born this way. We are born of the flesh, ‘dead’ or in a ‘state of sin’. So our birthright is to perish.

An act of sin of course is defined by the law and although we are all born in the ‘state’ of sin, man is not born stealing and cussing from the womb. He is just born of the flesh with a propensity to fulfil whatever his flesh desires.

Now we know there is only one way that man can escape the state of sin that he is born into. And that is to be born of the Spirit, because by this he passes from death to life.

But even when man is born again he has not escaped the body of flesh that he was born with and he is therefore still subject to the flesh. The spirit and the flesh are at war and until man is able ‘walk in the spirit’ in order that he may die to the flesh he will still ‘sin’.

Of course, the man who is not born of the Spirit can only live by the flesh and he will do whatever his flesh leads him to do.

 

[Adullam]

We contain sin. We were born in sin and have a sinful nature only until we receive the indwelling Holy Spirit. A sinful mind can't change a sinful mind because it thinks sinfully to begin with! That's the blind leading the blind. Only Jesus can open the eyes and minds of the blind with the Holy Spirit which is from God, not man. That's why Jesus said; "No one is good but God alone."

Then a man cannot follow Christ. In your scheme it is impossible to be holy. Fortunately you are wrong! Read the NT again but read all the verses. You will change your views quickly enough! :yes

In reality, we must also engage our will. We must be obedient to the faith we have been given. We must work out our own salvation. If we do not bring forth fruit, then we will be rejected. Christians will be judged by their works.

We must choose the God who chose us. We must love (from our souls) the God who loved us. In this way we are apprehended to God. Salvation is a process. This must continue to the end of our lives here to be valid. Sanctification is a process. We are to aspire to fulness in Christ. We have been given the grace to be as our Master. Let's not frustrate the grace of God!

Wrong again. Do you know what it means to be born again of the Holy Spirit? Or not? :gah It means to receive the indwelling Holy Sirit from God which changes one's heart. That's what happened to Paul, that's what happened at Pentecost. It is only God who can transform our sinful hearts by His Spirit.

So as Jesus tells us in John 3:5-7, if you are not born again of water and the Spirit, you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven. Man can never be perfect on his own. Never.

One is born again in the spirit, not the soul. A person who is born again can still do terrible things. One must walk according to the Spirit and let the soul be won over for Christ. This is accomplished through wisdom, knowledge and understanding.

The light of God illuminates our soul. If we walk in obedience we keep the light. If we sin we lose the immediacy of the presence. Do you have any experience of spiritual things....personally?