kwag_myers said:
God's desire is for all to be saved (2 Peter 3:9). Those who are sent to hell have made a covenant with hell (Isaiah 28:15), i.e., they have chosen hell. Just as a young person chooses to reject the teachings of their parents and must suffer the consequences of that choice. The difference is, God is gracious to forgive. However, now is the time for repentance (Matthew 4:17). If you reject Jesus, you reject this warning.
Regardless of whether or not we choose or reject Jesus, God clearly made hell for us. I understand completely this creed, I just disagree with your contention that God didn't make hell for man. He clearly made it for fallen men, but men nontheless.
It seems you are trying to absolve God from his complicity in creating such a horrible place.
Perhaps this is only the beginning of eternity.
1 Corinthians 2:9 (Isaiah 64:4), "That is what the Scriptures mean when they say,
"No eye has seen, no ear has heard,
and no mind has imagined
what God has prepared
for those who love him.""
That really didn't answer my question about the 1,000 years of revelation versus eternity in heaven.
But the verse you supplied is interesting, and I think goes back to my previous point. If everything in heaven is different than here, and I won't be able to experience what I normally experience here, then it won't really be "me" experiencing heaven.
And again, although details of hell seem abundant, such details of heaven seem lacking. Since hell is described exactly has what people have seen and heard and imagined (in other words, in earthly terms), it seems odd that heaven lacks the same specifics.
His desire is to be in the company of those who love Him.
Desire implies need. If God needs something, then he isn't perfect.
And if the thought of worshipping Him doesn't excite you, there is something missing in your relationship with the Lord.
I have no relationship with the Lord. I am an atheist.
I'm wondering if you even have a relationship with the Lord (I see no evidence of one).
I was raised very religous (Catholic). I prayed daily and believed firmly in the tenets of the apostles creed. Honestly, I never felt like it was a two-way relationship, and in the last few years I honestly examined my faith and religion and found it sorely lacking. Eventually, I progressed from religious to doubtful to agnostic to atheist though the examination of faith and the logic and reason behind it.
I do see evidence of a proud and haughty attitude (as in your changing of my name in your post).
As for the name change, I apologize. I usually cut and paste the quote then type in the name. I mistyped it, so I am sorry.
I am not trying to be proud, I'm trying to understand the reason and logic behind the claims you believe. I am simply stating my beliefs and reason. Yes, I do resort to sarcasm and hyperbole from time to time, but that's just to try and make my posts more entertaining and understandable.
You're obviously not here to hear, but to be heard.
Have I not adequately responded to everything you have wrote? Yes, I have opinions. But I have certainly entertained yours and responded in kind. Such is the way of debate.
Honestly, I think I have a pretty fair reputation on this forum for responding on the relevant points made and having a hopefully fruitful discussion of them.
Where were you went God created heaven and earth (and hell)?
Assuming there is a God, the same place you were. Because neither of us were there, we are equally capable of weighing in on the matter.
Yet you presume to judge His motives as if you are His equal.
I make no such claim to be his equal. However, if he exists, and wants me to understand him in my lifetime, he needs to do so within the confines of logic and reason, because that is how the world is structured, and that is how I observe it.
If he exists, he knows me much better than you do, and would know precisely how to allow me to fairly judge and make an informed decision about his existence. Should he ever wish to do so, he knows I'd listen.
