Is there a difference between IN and UPON?

[John Zain]

Just returned from Spain, Greece, and Turkey.
Spain: the Catholics are hung up on cathedrals, statues, and Mary-worship processions.
Greece: the Orthodox are hung up on monasteries, icons, icons, and more icons.
Both of the above are hung up on church doctrine, placing it above the word of God.
Turkey: the Muslims are hung up on what Satan's counterfeit "Gabriel" told Mohammed.
Gee, what fun ... can't wait to go back for more!

The Holy Spirit came INSIDE of us when we were born again, right?
Jesus promised, "the Spirit of truth … will be in you." (John 14:17)
"... His Spirit who dwells in you" (Romans 8:11)
"... the Spirit of God dwells in you" (1 Corinthians 3:16)
"... the Holy Spirit who dwells in us." (2 Timothy 1:14)
"And by this we know that He abides in us ..." (1 John 3:24)

There are also verses that speak of the Holy Spirit coming UPON some of
God's specially-anointed ones, which were given special tasks to perform:
David ... 1 Samuel 16:13
Elisha ... 2 Kings 2:9
Zechariah ... 2 Chronicles 24:20
Isaiah ... Isaiah 59:21
Ezekiel ... Ezekiel 11:5
Messiah ... Isaiah 11:2, 60:1-2, Matthew 12:18
Mary ... Luke 1:35
Jesus ... Matthew 3:16, Mark 1:10, Luke 3:22, Luke 4:18, John 1:32-34

Then later, there were more instances when the Spirit came UPON people:

"Behold, I send the Promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city
of Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high." (Luke 24:49)

"… wait for the Promise of the Father …
… you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.
… you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you;
and you shall be witnesses to Me … to the end of the earth." (Acts 1:4-8)

"When the Day of Pentecost had fully come … there appeared to them divided tongues,
as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit
and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." (Acts 2:1-4)
Know any people who have spoken in tongues when being re-filled with the Spirit?

"… when they (Peter & John) had come down, (they) prayed for them (Samarians)
that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them.
They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit." (Acts 8:15-17)
Prior to this, they had received some other type of baptism.

"… the Holy Spirit fell upon all those (Gentiles) who heard the word …
the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they
(Peter's group) heard them speak with tongues and magnify God." (Acts 10:44-46)
How many people do you know who speak in tongues?

"… the Holy Spirit fell upon them (Gentiles), as upon us (Jews) at the beginning.
Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, ‘John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ … ... God gave them the same gift
as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ" (Acts 11:15-17)
Quite possibly, their spirit baptism came at the same time as they were born again, which has not been uncommon around the world.

"… they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
And when Paul had laid hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came upon them,
and they spoke with tongues and prophesied …" (Acts 19:5-6)

Do you believe that this is born-again process? ...
The Holy Spirit comes UPON the person, he/she speaks in tongues, and then
the Holy Spirit moves INSIDE the person to remain there "forever" (John 14:16)?

No, normally, the person is first born again with the Holy Spirit entering INSIDE,
and then later, the Holy Spirit comes UPON the person with a special anointing.

One of God's greatest evangelists, Smith Wigglesworth, said (and I'm paraphrasing):
"If you don't have the baptism with the Holy Spirit, you are living in a weak and impoverished condition."
Wigglesworth was used by God all over the world to perform all kinds of healing miracles, including raising the dead.
Note: It's just like the Lord to choose a man with a name such as Smith's to dumbfound the world.

 

[Sparkey]

Difference between "en" and "epi" ? Yes.

 

[childeye]

Pretty cool presentation sparrowhawke. A good point to reflect upon.

 

[John Zain]

Bloody nonsense.
Would one of you 2 geniuses care to dicipher it for me.

 

[Adullam]

Difference between "en" and "epi" ? Yes.

Great diagram!!

 

[John Zain]

Another genius who can't/won't dicipher it.
How can there be so many geniuses on one forum?

 

[Adullam]

Another genius who can't/won't dicipher it.
How can there be so many geniuses on one forum?

The diagram is of no value for those who don't decipher it.

 

[childeye]

Another genius who can't/won't dicipher it.
How can there be so many geniuses on one forum?

It is simply saying the difference between in and upon. No Genius here. It's the same difference as if I put a lamp on a box or in a box

 

[Adullam]

It is simply saying the difference between in and upon. No Genius here. It's the same difference as if I put a lamp on a box or in a box

The quantity of geniuses on this board could make an interesting thread in it's own right! ;)

 

[childeye]

The quantity of geniuses on this board could make an interesting topic for a thread in it's own right! ;)

I am extremely gifted in my remarkable knowledge of ignorance.

 

[Sparkey]

I took one "Intro to Greek" class and that was almost 40 years ago.
It is the opposite of genius that caused me to preserve that chart -- because I was all the time getting tripped up on the smallest things - Greek prepositions.

Greek is a language of precision and its prepositions distinctly show relationships. There is a very key difference between "EN" (meaning inside) and "EPI" meaning upon (ie. resting upon and touching and not merely "over").

 

[mondar]

Another genius who can't/won't dicipher it.
How can there be so many geniuses on one forum?

John,
Please excuse me if I sound condescending in any way, it is not intended. I simply do not know you and how much you know about grammar. I will give you a more complex answer, and then a more simple one.

COMPLEX ANSWER:
That chart has do do with greek prepositions. While the chart is a good chart for beginners, it is not exhaustive by any means. The chart was copied from a text book on Greek Grammer from Dana and Mante. It is possible that the person who first posted the chart is not familiar with Dana and Mante, I do not know that either. That chart has been spread all over the place, but its original source was a text book on greek grammar.

It actually does speak somewhat to the question in the OP. There may or may not be a difference between the english words "In" and "UPON" depending upon what greek word was used behind the english and what the context of that word might be.

Actually the word "in" and "upon" can be substituted for each other in english, other times it cannot be substituted. At times, the ending of the noun a preposition modifies can affect its meaning. A greek preposition might mean one thing when it modifies an accusative case noun, and another things when it modifes a genative, or dative case noun.

I would recommend concentrating on the context. The first rule of understanding any specific word in the bible, especially in the Greek NT, is that words have meanings only in their context. Each word in the bible has a range of meaning and can have a different nuance in a different context.

SIMPLE ANSWER
Sometimes there is a difference between "in" and "Upon" and sometimes there is no difference.

From the 3ird Genius who fails in this forum............ : )

 

[John Zain]

Now perhaps we can get into an appreciation of why I posted this thread ...

The baptism with the Holy Spirit has absolutely nothing to do with salvation!

May we go there now?

 

[Vic C.]

Now perhaps we can get into an appreciation of why I posted this thread ...

The baptism with the Holy Spirit has absolutely nothing to do with salvation!

May we go there now?

Easy there sparky! :D

Form a Moderator's POV, may I suggest the topic title reflect the gist of the OP?


Like this:

Regarding baptism of the HS, is there a difference between IN and UPON?