Jeff was thinking about Christmas Eve.

[Willie T]

On the night Christ was born, the story tells us that a "multitude of the heavenly host" appeared, saying: "Glory to God in the highest heaven, and peace, goodwill among people!" The word "host" is a word referring to an army, and when the word appears in Eugene Peterson's, The Message paraphrase, it is rendered as "angel armies". So the picture we have is one of the angelic armies of Heaven appearing in the sky, and instead of proclaiming war against humanity, proclaiming pe...ace. Many, even in the "grace movement", insist that peace with God is something that only became actualized through the death and murder of Jesus. Here, however, we see that, prior to the shedding of any blood, heaven's armies were not positioned to war against humanity, but to reveal to us that God felt peaceful toward us, and that He was on our side.

This is ultimately revealed in the person whose birth they were proclaiming: Jesus Christ, the God man. For in His person exists divinity and humanity. There is no war or division between His humanity and divinity, but perfect peace. And, to me, this is ultimately what the incarnation reveals: That God is on our side, and at peace with our humanity. Thus, the angelic armies declare peace to men on the night that God is revealed as One who dwells peacefully with and as humanity.

Peace on Earth.
God is not at war with men, nor has He ever been.

 

[jasonc]

On the night Christ was born, the story tells us that a "multitude of the heavenly host" appeared, saying: "Glory to God in the highest heaven, and peace, goodwill among people!" The word "host" is a word referring to an army, and when the word appears in Eugene Peterson's, The Message paraphrase, it is rendered as "angel armies". So the picture we have is one of the angelic armies of Heaven appearing in the sky, and instead of proclaiming war against humanity, proclaiming pe...ace. Many, even in the "grace movement", insist that peace with God is something that only became actualized through the death and murder of Jesus. Here, however, we see that, prior to the shedding of any blood, heaven's armies were not positioned to war against humanity, but to reveal to us that God felt peaceful toward us, and that He was on our side.

This is ultimately revealed in the person whose birth they were proclaiming: Jesus Christ, the God man. For in His person exists divinity and humanity. There is no war or division between His humanity and divinity, but perfect peace. And, to me, this is ultimately what the incarnation reveals: That God is on our side, and at peace with our humanity. Thus, the angelic armies declare peace to men on the night that God is revealed as One who dwells peacefully with and as humanity.

Peace on Earth.
God is not at war with men, nor has He ever been.

I have been pondering this recently, the part I have pondered is peace on earth and good will toward men. what would that be in Hebrew?

 

[Willie T]

.....שלום עליי אדמות ורצון טוב כלפי גברים

 

[jasonc]

שלום עליי אדמות ורצון טוב כלפי גברים

I know that but how would they render it literally back to English? shalom is just more then peace. it has the idea of being right with god.

 

[Willie T]

I know that but how would they render it literally back to English? shalom is just more then peace. it has the idea of being right with god.

Sorry. Just messin' wit ya on Christmas Eve.

 

[stovebolts]

Jeff who lol!
Great post and great thoughts Willie.

 

[Willie T]

Jeff who lol!
Great post and great thoughts Willie.

He's a young author friend. I've posted several of his thoughts over the past few months.

 

[jasonc]

He's a young author friend. I've posted several of his thoughts over the past few months.

stovebolts first name is jeff.lool

 

[Willie T]

I probably read that once or twice, but I never gave it much thought.

 

[stovebolts]

He's a young author friend. I've posted several of his thoughts over the past few months.

Well, that "splains" it. I haven't been keeping up what's been happening in the neighborhood these past few months.
Sounds like a wonderful author. It's good to have friends like that.

 

[TOG]

On the night Christ was born, the story tells us that a "multitude of the heavenly host" appeared, saying: "Glory to God in the highest heaven, and peace, goodwill among people!"

It's that last part - "goodwill among people" - that I've wondered most about. Different versions translate it in different ways:

KJV
on earth peace, good will toward men.

ASB
peace among men in whom he is well pleased.

ESV
peace among those with whom he is pleased!

CJB
peace among people of good will!

YLT
upon earth peace, among men -- good will.

Icelandic Bible 1981
friður á jörðu með mönnum, sem hann hefur velþóknun á. (peace on earth with men in whom He has pleasure)

Icelandic Bible Millennium edition
friður á jörðu og velþóknun Guðs yfir mönnum. (peace on earth and goodwill toward men)

I could go on, but any others would be just variations on those. As you can see, there are three basic variations:

1. Peace on earth and goodwill toward men
2. Peace for those in whom God is pleased
3. Peace for good people

Anybody have any idea what the original meaning is?

The TOG​

 

[Willie T]

No, I don't. But I highly applaud the fact that you want to know. That speaks volumes.

 

[jasonc]

It's that last part - "goodwill among people" - that I've wondered most about. Different versions translate it in different ways:

KJV
on earth peace, good will toward men.

ASB
peace among men in whom he is well pleased.

ESV
peace among those with whom he is pleased!

CJB
peace among people of good will!

YLT
upon earth peace, among men -- good will.

Icelandic Bible 1981
friður á jörðu með mönnum, sem hann hefur velþóknun á. (peace on earth with men in whom He has pleasure)

Icelandic Bible Millennium edition
friður á jörðu og velþóknun Guðs yfir mönnum. (peace on earth and goodwill toward men)

I could go on, but any others would be just variations on those. As you can see, there are three basic variations:

1. Peace on earth and goodwill toward men
2. Peace for those in whom God is pleased
3. Peace for good people

Anybody have any idea what the original meaning is?

The TOG​

I think #2, since that is shalom. makes sense He came to Isreal first.

 

[TOG]

I think #2, since that is shalom. makes sense He came to Isreal first.

Thanks. That has been my thought too. God makes His sun to shine on the unrighteous as well as the righteous, but He never promises peace for His enemies. In fact, He promises to fight against them for His people.

The TOG​