John Chapter 14

[God Bless America]

Hi all...

Can anyone help me understand.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Is the comforter the "holy spirit" Christ is talking about in 14.16 - because if you read 14.17

John 14:17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Thank you in advance for your time...

Regards,
Pam
New York

 

[wavy]

Yes, Pam...

I don't see your problem. Comforter = Holy Spirit = Spirit of Truth


Kind regards,
Eric

 

[samuel]

Yes as in the verses below, this is speaking about the Holy spirit.

Joh:14:16: And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Joh:14:26: But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Joh:15:26: But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
Joh:16:7: Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

 

[St Francis]

Hi all...

Can anyone help me understand.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Is the comforter the "holy spirit" Christ is talking about in 14.16 - because if you read 14.17

John 14:17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Thank you in advance for your time...

Regards,
Pam
New York

Yes, the comforter is the Holy Spirit.

But I would add: When He mentions the "Sirit of Truth", this promise was made to the apostles alone, not all disciples. If you read it in context, thats who he was speaking to - just the apostles.

 

[God Bless America]

Thanks every one.

I knew it but I was in a debade in another forum with a muslim and he/she was trying to tell me that "the Spirit of Truth" was refering to mohamads coming and my argument was that the "Spirit of Truth" and the "Holy Spirit" is the same and part of the Trinity.

The argument was the word "truth" because they (muslims) believe that mohamad is the way to "the truth" and that his coming was prophetised in the Bible. My final point to him/her was that by all means, there is nothing in the Bible what mentions mohamad or was even prophetised at all.

But I would add: When He mentions the "Sirit of Truth", this promise was made to the apostles alone, not all disciples. If you read it in context, thats who he was speaking to - just the apostles.

I do appriciate the above quote from St. Francis.

Thanks all..

Best regards,
Pam

 

[Jofus]

[quote="God Bless America":1ov5wnj8]Hi all...

Can anyone help me understand.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Is the comforter the "holy spirit" Christ is talking about in 14.16 - because if you read 14.17

John 14:17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Thank you in advance for your time...

Regards,
Pam
New York

Yes, the comforter is the Holy Spirit.

But I would add: When He mentions the "Sirit of Truth", this promise was made to the apostles alone, not all disciples. If you read it in context, thats who he was speaking to - just the apostles.[/quote:1ov5wnj8]

Could you please explain what Jesus means when He tells the apostles they Comforter will abide with them forever, when they only have a limited amount of time in these bodies? In this context the Holy Spirit would only be needed until all 12 apostles had died and then the Holy Spirit would not be needed anymore. But forever seems to elude to a much longer, infinite period of time.

Does the Holy Spirit linger about, roaming the earth until the end of time? Does He return to heaven and only live within the 12 apostles also in heaven? What happened to the Holy Spirit after they all passed away if no one else is able to have the Holy Spirit dwell within them?

 

[St Francis]

...Could you please explain what Jesus means when He tells the apostles they Comforter will abide with them forever, when they only have a limited amount of time in these bodies?...

I could, but if I did, I'd have to quote Catholic doctrine, which is forbidden.

 

[Jofus]

funny how that works out...

Maybe I would rephrase my questions.
If only the apostles have the Holy Spirit, what do the rest of the believers have? And since the 12 apostles are all dead now, is the job of the Holy Spirit done? And if the Holy Spirit was only given to the 12, how is it that Jesus would manifest himself to those who love him and keep his commandments? (John 14:21) Jesus says (in v.21), He and the Father will come and make Their abode with them (those who love Him). How does God, who is Spirit (in other words "the Holy Spirit"), come and live with those believers who are of course flesh and bone?

 

[St Francis]

funny how that works out...

I don't find it particuarly funny.

...Maybe I would rephrase my questions.
If only the apostles have the Holy Spirit, what do the rest of the believers have?...

That is not what I said. We ALL have the Holy Spirit, but we all have different gifts of the Spirit. The particular gift of speaking truth was neccessary for the apostles, since they were the ones sent out to "teach" (Matt 28:20).

.....And since the 12 apostles are all dead now, is the job of the Holy Spirit done?..

No, it is not done. The Spirit still works through all of us, according to the paricular gifts we have. What you are asking is: Who today has that particular gift that was given to the apostles so that they might teach the truth? Again, I am not allowed to answer that question. (My non-answer is probably an answer though if you read between the lines.)

 

[Jofus]

That is not what I said. We ALL have the Holy Spirit, but we all have different gifts of the Spirit. The particular gift of speaking truth was neccessary for the apostles, since they were the ones sent out to "teach" (Matt 28:20).

Maybe I did misunderstand... I'll have to go back and check that again. (I looked back and now understand your wording.)

No, it is not done. The Spirit still works through all of us, according to the paricular gifts we have. What you are asking is: Who today has that particular gift that was given to the apostles so that they might teach the truth? Again, I am not allowed to answer that question. (My non-answer is probably an answer though if you read between the lines.)

This is also what I believe. I have not looking into much of the teachings of this 'unspoken doctrine", but I do believe I understand where you are headed. Thanks for the info. You are greatly appreciated.

 

[St Francis]

That is not what I said. We ALL have the Holy Spirit, but we all have different gifts of the Spirit. The particular gift of speaking truth was neccessary for the apostles, since they were the ones sent out to "teach" (Matt 28:20).

Maybe I did misunderstand... I'll have to go back and check that again. (I looked back and now understand your wording.)

Well, I don't think I worded it very well either.

No, it is not done. The Spirit still works through all of us, according to the paricular gifts we have. What you are asking is: Who today has that particular gift that was given to the apostles so that they might teach the truth? Again, I am not allowed to answer that question. (My non-answer is probably an answer though if you read between the lines.)

This is also what I believe. I have not looking into much of the teachings of this 'unspoken doctrine", but I do believe I understand where you are headed. Thanks for the info. You are greatly appreciated.

Sure thing.

 

[nadab]

At John 14:16,17, on the night before his death on Nisan 14, Jesus spoke to his apostles of requesting the Father, God, to give "you another helper (Greek parakletos) to be with you forever, the spirit of the truth, which the world cannot receive, because it neither beholds it nor knows it." Some Bibles render parakletos as "comforter", "advocate". In extra-Biblical Greek literature that term was applied to a person who served as “a legal adviser or helper or advocate in the relevant court.†But in the Bible the word “seems to have the broad and general sense of ‘helper.â€Â’ (Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, edited by G. Friedrich, Vol. V, pp. 803, 804)

The holy spirit would provide more than just comfort, but would be a "helper", for Jesus said that "the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach you all things and bring back to your minds all the things I told you".(John 14:26) Later, after his resurrection, he blew upon his apostles and told them: "Receive holy spirit".(John 20:22) Jesus symbolically gave them notice that soon holy spirit would be poured out on them. This occurred a little more than fifty days later, on the day of Pentecost. What did this accomplish ?

For one thing, those who received the holy spirit on that day and forward were born again as spiritual sons of God with the hope of being corulers with Christ in heaven.(Acts 2:4; John 3:5) This served as a token" of their being selected by God.(2 Cor 1:22; 2 Cor 5:5; Eph 1:14) But that outpouring of holy spirit did more. Some recipients gained miraculous powers. By that means some could speak in foreign tongues that they did not know. Others could prophesy. Yet others could heal the sick or raise the dead.(1 Cor 12:4-11)

The miraculous gifts of the spirit though ended with the death of the apostles, around the end of the first century C.E. The apostle Paul wrote that "whether there are gifts of prophesying, they will be done away with; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is (supernatural) knowledge, it will be done away with" and then says that "when that is complete arrives, that which is partial will be done away with."(1 Cor 13:8,10) He then gives an illustration of a "babe", saying that "when I was a babe, I used to speak as a babe, to think as babe, to reason as a babe; but now that I have become a man, I have done away with the traits of a babe."(1 Cor 13:11)

For what purpose was the illustration ? That the Christian congregation that Jesus established in 33 C.E., was as a "babe", needing miraculous help, through the outworking of the holy spirit, to ensure it's growth to maturity, like a "man". Just as an infant could not survive without the aid of someone qualified in love to care for it, so likewise the Christian congregation in the first century. This also gave onlookers visible evidence that God was indeed with this small fledgling group.

 

[mondar]

16καγÉ εÃÂÉÄηÃă Äον ÀαÄεÃÂα και αλλον ÀαÃÂακληÄον δÉÃει Ã…μιν ινα η μεθ Ã…μÉν ει Äον αιÉνα

Interesting verse. The trinity is very much present in this verse.
-- The Son of God (speaker) prays to the Father. They are two separate persons, but of course one being, one essence, one God.
-- The Father (Äον ÀαÄεÃÂα) sends the Holy Spirit.
-- The HS (αλλον ÀαÃÂακληÄον) is the one to be sent.

Also within this verse is the concept of what the HS is to be doing, and what he is.
αλλον ÀαÃÂακληÄον
Paraklaton is of course the "comforter." The significance of this is guided by the word αλλον (another). There are at least two different words in greek for "another." There is heteros, another of a different kind, and allos (used in this verse) which is another of the same kind. In other words, this comforter to come is no different then Christ. The HS, being God of very God, perfectly fulfills the role. How does the HS replace Christ in the comforter role? I think the context gives us a hint.

17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be[c] in you.

Christ revealed the Father, and this was for the comfort of the disciples. Christ was "the way, the truth, and the life. Now the HS will reveal the Son, and the HS will be the Spirit of Truth. Truth is not only the ministry of the three persons of the trinity (The Father is the source of truth, JC is the truth and reveals the Father, the HS is the Spirit of Truth), but the truth is to be a comfort. The truth of God is always a comfort. When I look around at what man does... Man loves his violence and war. Look at the history of war. In WW2 we speak of the 6-7 million Jews gassed. There was over 20 million Russians butchered by the SS and NAZi Germany. Mankind has desired to civilize war for a long time. Now we have suicide bombers, terrorists, and concerns about terrorists obtaining nuclear or chemical weapons. We watch as Gays protest for super rights, and mankind defends its immorality. I sometimes feel astonished that more Christians do not view mankind as I do... and angry wicked sinner shaking his fist defiantly at God. We lie about ourselves and how good we are, we lie to each other. But in the end, the God of truth is there as a comfort. We know his nature is holy. In fact that seems to be his chief attribute. Nowhere is God called "love love love." But he is called "Holy holy holy, Lord God almighty."

But the issue in John 14 is the character of another comforter, one like Christ. One who is also Truth. I thank God for his perfections. He was perfect in eternity past, complete in his love for other members of the trinity, and now he comforts us with his truth about himself in the present.

Sola Glorious Deus,
Mondar