Jude 1:9 ???

[stovebolts]

I have not really done any research on this particular verse, and my interest isn't what this verse means. Rather, I want to know where the idea for this verse came from since it has no Old Testament scriptures that can back it. I've mulled over some light jewish midrash and couldn't find anything, but I'm thinking it was a part of oral tradition? But then again, I could be completely wrong.

Jude 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil as he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke you.

Any ideas?

 

[Sinthesis]

I have not really done any research on this particular verse, and my interest isn't what this verse means. Rather, I want to know where the idea for this verse came from since it has no Old Testament scriptures that can back it. I've mulled over some light jewish midrash and couldn't find anything, but I'm thinking it was a part of oral tradition? But then again, I could be completely wrong.

Jude 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil as he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke you.

Any ideas?

Google "dispute over the body of Moses" & "Assumption of Moses"

 

[stovebolts]

Thanks! I'll check them out.
I knew somebody around here could get me moving in the right direction

 

[JudaicChristian]

Verse 9 was added to the book of Jude to give support to a Gnostic writing called "The Assumption of Moses." Note here in 8, 9, and 10 how the sentence was interrupted.
Jude

1. Jude, a servant of Yahshua the Messiah, and brother of James, and to them that are sanctified by Yahwah the Father, also called and saved by Yahshua the Messiah.
2. May mercy, peace, and devotion, be multiplied to you.
3. Loved, I was eager to write to you about the salvation we share, it was necessary for me to write to you, and encourage you to earnestly contend for the faith that was given to the saints.
4. Because you are unaware that certain men have sneaked in, who are of a ancient order to their condemnation, these ungodly men turn the grace of our God into immorality, and deny that the only God is Yahwah, or that our lord Yahshua is the Messiah.
5. I will remind you although you once knew this, how Yahwah, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that did not believe.
6. Those messengers did not keep their first estate, and they were removed from their place, and He has reserved for them everlasting chains of darkness for that great day of judgment.
7. Just like Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in the same manner, they gave themselves over to fornication, and strange flesh.
8. And they will suffer the vengeance of eternal fire, as a set example; as also along with these filthy dreamers who also defile their flesh.
9. They say evil things about dignitaries and despise their dominion; they say evil things about what they know nothing about.
10. But what they do know naturally like brute beasts; in those things they have corrupted themselves.

 

[francisdesales]

Verse 9 was added to the book of Jude to give support to a Gnostic writing called "The Assumption of Moses." Note here in 8, 9, and 10 how the sentence was interrupted.
Jude

The Testament of Moses (also known as the Assumptio of Moses) is not a Gnostic work, it is a Jewish apocryphal work of a prophetic nature... Jews were quite familiar with pseudepigraphical works and accorded them a place of interest and respect - although not Sacred Scriptures.

Steve, here is a link that discusses it...

http://encyclopedia.jrank.org/MOL_MOS/MOSES_ASSUMPTION_OF.html

And another link with the words...

http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/pseudepigrapha/assumptionofmoses.html

Regards

 

[stovebolts]

Verse 9 was added to the book of Jude to give support to a Gnostic writing called "The Assumption of Moses." Note here in 8, 9, and 10 how the sentence was interrupted.
Jude

The Testament of Moses (also known as the Assumptio of Moses) is not a Gnostic work, it is a Jewish apocryphal work of a prophetic nature... Jews were quite familiar with pseudepigraphical works and accorded them a place of interest and respect - although not Sacred Scriptures.

Steve, here is a link that discusses it...

http://encyclopedia.jrank.org/MOL_MOS/MOSES_ASSUMPTION_OF.html

And another link with the words...

http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/pseudepigrapha/assumptionofmoses.html

Regards

Thanks Fred! :biglaugh

 

[francisdesales]

Thanks Fred! :biglaugh

Sorry, Jeff, had just got done talking to a Steve at work here...

 

[Mysteryman]

Thanks Fred! :biglaugh

Sorry, Jeff, had just got done talking to a Steve at work here...

Very humbling of you Pete - :D

 

[Biblereader]

I wonder why someone would say the book of Jude was written to give support to a Gnostic writing?
Gnostics were some of the worst, vile, corrupt sinners in the land.
Their brand of worship is alive and well today, too.
The book of Jude was divinely written, not as an auxilliary message to support the hellish Gnostics.

Verse 9 was added to the book of Jude to give support to a Gnostic writing called "The Assumption of Moses." Note here in 8, 9, and 10 how the sentence was interrupted.
Jude

1. Jude, a servant of Yahshua the Messiah, and brother of James, and to them that are sanctified by Yahwah the Father, also called and saved by Yahshua the Messiah.
2. May mercy, peace, and devotion, be multiplied to you.
3. Loved, I was eager to write to you about the salvation we share, it was necessary for me to write to you, and encourage you to earnestly contend for the faith that was given to the saints.
4. Because you are unaware that certain men have sneaked in, who are of a ancient order to their condemnation, these ungodly men turn the grace of our God into immorality, and deny that the only God is Yahwah, or that our lord Yahshua is the Messiah.
5. I will remind you although you once knew this, how Yahwah, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that did not believe.
6. Those messengers did not keep their first estate, and they were removed from their place, and He has reserved for them everlasting chains of darkness for that great day of judgment.
7. Just like Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in the same manner, they gave themselves over to fornication, and strange flesh.
8. And they will suffer the vengeance of eternal fire, as a set example; as also along with these filthy dreamers who also defile their flesh.
9. They say evil things about dignitaries and despise their dominion; they say evil things about what they know nothing about.
10. But what they do know naturally like brute beasts; in those things they have corrupted themselves.

 

[Sinthesis]

Jude 1:9 - Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil as he disputed about the body of Moses {see Deuteronomy 34:6}, dared not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke you {see Luke 4:1-13}.

 

[stovebolts]

Thanks Sinthesis

Joe,
Ha, and to think how many times I've been mistaken for a Steve on these forums, at least I've got the honor of being mistaken for a co-worker! I'll take it!

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

I wondered about this for a LONG TIME, now i believe it is speaking of " the body of moses"being the Israelites led by moses in the wilderness not the literal flesh of moses

 

[JudaicChristian]

I wonder why someone would say the book of Jude was written to give support to a Gnostic writing?
Gnostics were some of the worst, vile, corrupt sinners in the land.
Their brand of worship is alive and well today, too.
The book of Jude was divinely written, not as an auxilliary message to support the hellish Gnostics.

I said this Gnostic verse [Jude 1:9. Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil as he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke you] was added to give support to the Gnostic writing called "The Assumption of Moses." Verse, not book. Did you notice how the insertion interrupted the train of thought? See: Jude 1:8. And they will suffer the vengeance of eternal fire, as a set example; as also along with these filthy dreamers who also defile their flesh.
9. They say evil things about dignitaries and despise their dominion; they say evil things about what they know nothing about.
10. But what they do know naturally like brute beasts; in those things they have corrupted themselves.

 

[francisdesales]

Thanks Fred! :biglaugh

Sorry, Jeff, had just got done talking to a Steve at work here...

Very humbling of you Pete - :D

Don't you have something better to do?