RichardBurger
Member
- Aug 31, 2009
- 261
- 0
Something to think about!!!!
*****
Statement: ".. (until) heaven and earth pass away the law will stand.
The reply: It certainly will, But not over those in Christ. We are already seated in heaven. "and hath made us to sit in heavenly places" Eph 2:6. There is no utility left for the law once we have graduated from school to Christ: "the law was our schoolmaster, to lead us to Christ. But now that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster". ---“the law was our schoolmaster, to lead us to Christ. But now that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster"
Statement: "..The Schoolmaster was/is human teachers.
The reply: It was as it says: the law. What is the use of our using scripture as referee, if most want to bend meaning when the obvious doesn't suit them?
Statement: "..You say Jesus lived by faith/belief, who did he believe in? Faith in what?
The reply: Not what, Who: God the Father. (Just like Abraham).
Statement: "..He believed in the perfect laws of God and followed them.
The reply: You can't have faith in the law: that is an oxymoron. "The law is not of faith" Gal 3:12.
Statement: "..The Greek word plerhosau, means “to be filled withâ€Â
The reply: Now "keeping" has been dropped and the word "keep" used to replace it. This is the proper meaning. But you can't have it both ways. It does indeed mean "to be filled with" (past tense). Which is in accord with what has been said: it means not to keep, but to bring into consummation, fill up fully, fill to the brim, satisfy.
Statement: ".. Jesus came to be filled with the law"
The reply: This statement is in reversed order. The law was fulfilled with Jesus, not Jesus with the law.
Statement: "..Jesus was saying that his life in the flesh was finished. And he gave up his spirit.
He was stating far more than the obvious. He was declaring that all was accomplished (fulfilled).
A scripture verse:
Romans 3:31: "Do we then nullify the law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the law." --- To establish the law does not mean to keep it. This verse teaches us that our coming to Christ by faith, instead of law, forced by the impossibility of keeping the law, is that which establishes the law, tacitly. In other words, the law is established (set in place) with regard to its utility: to bring us to Christ. This is what it means to establish the law through faith. There is no intention here whatsoever to teach us that the law still abides over us and we are to keep it.
Statement: "..The above verse says nothing to that effect it says just the opposite.
The reply: It says as I have said it says. It is for others to give proper consideration to the careful wording Paul uses and to the contextual emphasis.
Statement: "..Christ became the law by living perfectly by the law,
The reply: Christ became nothing: He was and always has been everything, thus: "before Abraham was, I am". Christ is the law because He is God. Which is not to say that God is what the law is, but that God is now our law.
Statement: "..The law was only a way of life that nobody had ever followed completely until Christ who encompassed the law bodily.
The reply: Christ did not follow the law, for "the law is not of faith". The same principle that applies to man (no one shall be justified by the works of the law), applied to Christ, for as well as being God, He was also a man. Christ came to demonstrate """""that only God was acceptable to God,"""" (thus "there is none good but God"), and such demonstration was necessarily only possible by staying within the confines of the Godhead spiritually. To follow the law, would be to venture outside that Godhead (for the law is external to God, not internal to Him, being that which proceeded from the Creator to the creature). To follow faith, was to stay within the Godhead, for faith is internal to the Godhead, comprising the trust of the Son in the Father.
Statement: "..We are only under the authority of the Spirit if we live in a manner pleasing to God and he commanded us to live by his laws
The reply: "Without faith it is impossible to please Him" "The law is not of faith".
Statement: "..God does not change.
The reply: It is not a question of whether God has changed, but a question of what God intended all along. God's unchangingness is not defined by that which he never intended to maintain, but in the everlasting covenant: Christ Jesus: "Jesus Christ the same yesterday today and forever". The new covenant includes none of the old. That is why it is new.
Statement: "..And God the Father like Abraham taught the law and followed the law.
The reply: The law was given by Moses, not before. If the law Abraham followed was the same as that inscribed by Moses, then Abraham was in transgression of it not once, but twice, in his bearing false witness concerning Sarah. And perpetually in transgression of it in his not keeping a sabbath. Therefore the "all my laws" of Gen 26:5 means something other: the law of faith. Thus "Abraham believed God and it was accounted unto him as righteousness". What did he believe? That God would make of him a great nation, simply because God said so, and not because of anything Abraham had to do.
Statement: "..The Law still exists and it lacks nothing.
The reply: It lacks a few things, for one, truth. "The law was given through Moses, but ... truth came by Jesus Christ". If the law had brought truth, Christ would not have had to bring it: it would have already been here.
Statement: "..Jesus was saying that his life in the flesh was finished. And he gave up his spirit.
The reply: He was stating far more than the obvious. He was declaring that all was accomplished (fulfilled).
Statement: "..You are putting words in Jesus’ mouth that he didn’t say.
The reply: Rather, others are isolating His words from the greater body of scripture, because they don't like the implications.
Statement: "..And until he puts death under his feet the prophets have not been fulfilled.
The reply: "He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me .. is passed from death into life". Fulfilled.
Statement: "..The word faith means to believe and those who believe in the law follow the law.
The reply: The word faith means to believe in the person of God, not simply to believe. Thus 2 Thes tells us "all men have not faith". Faith is the evidence of unseen things. The unseen 'thing' is Christ's person and his accomplishment for us. Faith is the evidence of Christ and his accomplishment for us. In short, faith is Christ, who is all things. There is no such thing as faith outside of Christ, for outside of Christ, there is no evidence of unseen things.
Statement: "..Faith means to believe in something and we are to believe in the law.
The reply: Again an oxymoron. You can't have faith in something which is not of faith. Faith and law are mutually exclusive ("the law is not of faith"). Faith is not that which keeps the law, but that which ignores the law. That is the central essence of faith. We are to have faith in Christ, as opposed to the law. We are to deny ourselves and step out of the boat and onto the water with Faith (trust and confidence) that God will hold us up. Trying to keep the law will not hold us up because we cannot keep the law.
*****
Statement: ".. (until) heaven and earth pass away the law will stand.
The reply: It certainly will, But not over those in Christ. We are already seated in heaven. "and hath made us to sit in heavenly places" Eph 2:6. There is no utility left for the law once we have graduated from school to Christ: "the law was our schoolmaster, to lead us to Christ. But now that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster". ---“the law was our schoolmaster, to lead us to Christ. But now that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster"
Statement: "..The Schoolmaster was/is human teachers.
The reply: It was as it says: the law. What is the use of our using scripture as referee, if most want to bend meaning when the obvious doesn't suit them?
Statement: "..You say Jesus lived by faith/belief, who did he believe in? Faith in what?
The reply: Not what, Who: God the Father. (Just like Abraham).
Statement: "..He believed in the perfect laws of God and followed them.
The reply: You can't have faith in the law: that is an oxymoron. "The law is not of faith" Gal 3:12.
Statement: "..The Greek word plerhosau, means “to be filled withâ€Â
The reply: Now "keeping" has been dropped and the word "keep" used to replace it. This is the proper meaning. But you can't have it both ways. It does indeed mean "to be filled with" (past tense). Which is in accord with what has been said: it means not to keep, but to bring into consummation, fill up fully, fill to the brim, satisfy.
Statement: ".. Jesus came to be filled with the law"
The reply: This statement is in reversed order. The law was fulfilled with Jesus, not Jesus with the law.
Statement: "..Jesus was saying that his life in the flesh was finished. And he gave up his spirit.
He was stating far more than the obvious. He was declaring that all was accomplished (fulfilled).
A scripture verse:
Romans 3:31: "Do we then nullify the law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the law." --- To establish the law does not mean to keep it. This verse teaches us that our coming to Christ by faith, instead of law, forced by the impossibility of keeping the law, is that which establishes the law, tacitly. In other words, the law is established (set in place) with regard to its utility: to bring us to Christ. This is what it means to establish the law through faith. There is no intention here whatsoever to teach us that the law still abides over us and we are to keep it.
Statement: "..The above verse says nothing to that effect it says just the opposite.
The reply: It says as I have said it says. It is for others to give proper consideration to the careful wording Paul uses and to the contextual emphasis.
Statement: "..Christ became the law by living perfectly by the law,
The reply: Christ became nothing: He was and always has been everything, thus: "before Abraham was, I am". Christ is the law because He is God. Which is not to say that God is what the law is, but that God is now our law.
Statement: "..The law was only a way of life that nobody had ever followed completely until Christ who encompassed the law bodily.
The reply: Christ did not follow the law, for "the law is not of faith". The same principle that applies to man (no one shall be justified by the works of the law), applied to Christ, for as well as being God, He was also a man. Christ came to demonstrate """""that only God was acceptable to God,"""" (thus "there is none good but God"), and such demonstration was necessarily only possible by staying within the confines of the Godhead spiritually. To follow the law, would be to venture outside that Godhead (for the law is external to God, not internal to Him, being that which proceeded from the Creator to the creature). To follow faith, was to stay within the Godhead, for faith is internal to the Godhead, comprising the trust of the Son in the Father.
Statement: "..We are only under the authority of the Spirit if we live in a manner pleasing to God and he commanded us to live by his laws
The reply: "Without faith it is impossible to please Him" "The law is not of faith".
Statement: "..God does not change.
The reply: It is not a question of whether God has changed, but a question of what God intended all along. God's unchangingness is not defined by that which he never intended to maintain, but in the everlasting covenant: Christ Jesus: "Jesus Christ the same yesterday today and forever". The new covenant includes none of the old. That is why it is new.
Statement: "..And God the Father like Abraham taught the law and followed the law.
The reply: The law was given by Moses, not before. If the law Abraham followed was the same as that inscribed by Moses, then Abraham was in transgression of it not once, but twice, in his bearing false witness concerning Sarah. And perpetually in transgression of it in his not keeping a sabbath. Therefore the "all my laws" of Gen 26:5 means something other: the law of faith. Thus "Abraham believed God and it was accounted unto him as righteousness". What did he believe? That God would make of him a great nation, simply because God said so, and not because of anything Abraham had to do.
Statement: "..The Law still exists and it lacks nothing.
The reply: It lacks a few things, for one, truth. "The law was given through Moses, but ... truth came by Jesus Christ". If the law had brought truth, Christ would not have had to bring it: it would have already been here.
Statement: "..Jesus was saying that his life in the flesh was finished. And he gave up his spirit.
The reply: He was stating far more than the obvious. He was declaring that all was accomplished (fulfilled).
Statement: "..You are putting words in Jesus’ mouth that he didn’t say.
The reply: Rather, others are isolating His words from the greater body of scripture, because they don't like the implications.
Statement: "..And until he puts death under his feet the prophets have not been fulfilled.
The reply: "He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me .. is passed from death into life". Fulfilled.
Statement: "..The word faith means to believe and those who believe in the law follow the law.
The reply: The word faith means to believe in the person of God, not simply to believe. Thus 2 Thes tells us "all men have not faith". Faith is the evidence of unseen things. The unseen 'thing' is Christ's person and his accomplishment for us. Faith is the evidence of Christ and his accomplishment for us. In short, faith is Christ, who is all things. There is no such thing as faith outside of Christ, for outside of Christ, there is no evidence of unseen things.
Statement: "..Faith means to believe in something and we are to believe in the law.
The reply: Again an oxymoron. You can't have faith in something which is not of faith. Faith and law are mutually exclusive ("the law is not of faith"). Faith is not that which keeps the law, but that which ignores the law. That is the central essence of faith. We are to have faith in Christ, as opposed to the law. We are to deny ourselves and step out of the boat and onto the water with Faith (trust and confidence) that God will hold us up. Trying to keep the law will not hold us up because we cannot keep the law.
